2024 World Championships Men's Free Skate

[4everchan]

To me that describes Uno or Cha, but I would love for Kagiyama to get there.

I would rank Uno pretty much on par with Yuma for this. Uno has a plus in the sense that he radiates a special something... but I am tempted to say that Yuma's glide is smoother. (nothing wrong with Uno's... we all know how crazy I am for Uno's skating.) Cha's musicality is very differently expressed. He is one of the most beautiful skaters on the ice right now (not talking about looks though he is not bad looking at all). But it comes from his style of skating and his uniquely beautiful moves. (BTW, we talk a lot about Cha's Ina Bauer... Yuma's on Sunday was stellar. ) When I watch Cha, I am very pleased with what I see. When I watch Yuma, at least at the gala, it goes deeper for me. It really took me somewhere else. Only Shoma's SP provided a similar sensation to what I felt to Yuma's gala... Yuma's LP almost took me there.... His SP didn't. But you know, people say tht some skaters are super young and will learn.. Yuma is JUST 20 and already at such a high level in that sense. He can only grow because the foundation is all there and more.

Too bad you couldn't attend the gala. You would have loved Malinin's cool moves...(and of course, the 4a made a couple appearances too)

 

[chuckm]

The component scale needs major updates. Idk how Yuma is only a few points higher in component it makes zero difference in the total score.

Everyone is complaining that Yuma didn't get higher component scores, but they are overlooking the fact that Yuma fell on a 3a, and falls are reflected in the component scores.

 

[Arigato]

Everyone is complaining that Yuma didn't get higher component scores, but they are overlooking the fact that Yuma fell on a 3a, and falls are reflected in the component scores.

One fall is not going to dramatically lower PCS. He got 93.61 - one of the highest PCS for that program this season. ( It may even be the highest. )

https://www.isu.org/synchronized-skating/rules/sys-handbooks-faq/31479-program-components-chart-2/file

 

[elbkup]

Did Alexandr Selevko earn 2 spots for Estonia with his Wirlds placement? I thought it was a miss but the podcast I just listened to said he earned two??

 

[4everchan]

Did Alexandr Selevko earn 2 spots for Estonia with his Wirlds placement? I thought it was a miss but the podcast I just listened to said he earned two??

One only

 

[elbkup]

One only

 

[YuBluByMe]

Did Alexandr Selevko earn 2 spots for Estonia with his Wirlds placement? I thought it was a miss but the podcast I just listened to said he earned two??

He’s earned two. Top 12 at Worlds are guaranteed two GP assignments.

Top 24 World Standings and top 24 Season’s best are guaranteed one, but normally if a skater is high up enough on SB list or if they’re on both lists, they get two. I’m pretty sure he would’ve gotten two just on his Europeans score and his world standing even without placing top 12 at Worlds, but now it’s a certainty.

EDIT: I completely misread the post. Unfortunately, he needed to place top 10 to earn another spot for Estonia.

 

[elbkup]

He’s earned two. Top 12 at Worlds are guaranteed two GP assignments.

Top 24 World Standings and top 24 Season’s best are guaranteed one, but normally if a skater is high up enough on SB list or if they’re on both lists, they get two. I’m pretty sure he would’ve gotten two just on his Europeans score and his world standing even without placing top 12 at Worlds, but now it’s a certainty.

EDIT: I completely misread the post. Unfortunately, he needed to place top 10 to earn another spot for Estonia.

Yes one was also my understanding.. but SO close..

 

[Janice4th]

Everyone is complaining that Yuma didn't get higher component scores, but they are overlooking the fact that Yuma fell on a 3a, and falls are reflected in the component scores.

When Yuma won his Olympic medal, people on here remarked on how juniorish his skating was.
Obviously he improved. As will Ilia. As he already has.

 

[Janice4th]

Everyone is complaining that Yuma didn't get higher component scores, but they are overlooking the fact that Yuma fell on a 3a, and falls are reflected in the component scores.

I sat next to someone training for the next level of judging at US Nationals. She told me that if there is a fall on a jump, the computer system will not allow any marks higher than a 9. I didn’t ask her about multiple falls, but my guess is there is a restriction there, too.

 

[Demandred]

I sat next to someone training for the next level of judging at US Nationals. She told me that if there is a fall on a jump, the computer system will not allow any marks higher than a 9. I didn’t ask her about multiple falls, but my guess is there is a restriction there, too.

The maximum program score mark for a program with one serious error is 9.5. For a program with 2 or more seriors errors it's 8.75 - https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/rules/fsk-communications/31153-isu-communication-2558/file.

 

[JeanA]

PCS are not really about "artistic preferences".

I didn't know how to put into words what I was trying to say and I knew instantly that statement would get a (deserved) rebuttal. I cringe when people call the second mark the 'artistic' mark, because they aren't (or shouldn't be) judging "artistry", how could you really. I understand PCS has the bullet points. PCS is really a "second technical mark" if it's done correctly. But we have to face reality, it just is not applied how it should be, and it never will. Plushenko got 9s for transitions and I'm unable to think of any notable transitions or MITFs in any of his programs. (Did he ever do a spread eagle, ina, spiral, ANYTHING in his programs? I don't remember any). I remember having a conversation with a former national level judge for USFS who explained to me why Timothy Goebel deserved higher second marks because he was attempting so much technical difficulty, as well as Elvis Stojko. I'm sure that line of thinking remains today and always will.

I agree with most of what you said, and it is also frustrating to me. The 'jumper' that gets the crowd and has some flashy moments doing superficial choreo will unfortunately get higher second marks than s/he deserves (well, depending on what country they represent and how "in favor" their fed is). The second mark forever will be a problem, even though it is explicitly written how it should be judged. I'm sure even going back to the 60s people debated this same issue and it's always the same argument that I think 90% of skating fans agree on. The problem is the judges refuse to be fair and judge accordingly and they don't get reprimanded for not following the rulebook. I prefer the skating of the Japanese with their sublime skating skills and wish they would be rewarded more in relation to skaters like Ilia. The rules and bullet points are there, so the ISU doesn't need to tweak the judging system more, they just need to demand that the judges follow the rules. But that will never happen and it's beating a long dead horse to hope otherwise.

 

[SXTN]

I don't agree. Yuma's was the only program, along with Jason's, that held my interest for the whole 4 minutes and that I watched more than once in replays. Subdued charisma and reserved personality are not negatives, to me.

Jason was out of this world. I was completely silent, even after the performance. This is when something very special is created by someone.

Maybe – and you as Mathman should know what I mean – the impact of Ilia's technical performance in numbers had a bigger impact on me. Need to rewatch Yuma again and give him a second chance.

 

[Janice4th]

The maximum program score mark for a program with one serious error is 9.5. For a program with 2 or more seriors errors it's 8.75 - https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/rules/fsk-communications/31153-isu-communication-2558/file.

Thanks. She probably said that and my brain changed it to 9.

 

[TontoK]

Jason was out of this world. I was completely silent, even after the performance. This is when something very special is created by someone.

Maybe – and you as Mathman should know what I mean – the impact of Ilia's technical performance in numbers had a bigger impact on me. Need to rewatch Yuma again and give him a second chance.

Corey Circelli had an interesting take on Ilia's PCS. On the Anything GOES Youtube recap, he said that while people can debate the style of Ilia's skating, he's hitting the PCS bullets. He cited clusters, the bracket into the 4A, good lines, centered spins... and he says performance-wise the arena was going absolutely bonkers, excitement building throughout the skate, and they went nuts with an extended standing ovation... so who is to say he didn't perform well?

I hope the choreo deal with Guillaume pans out. I'd like to see him work with a different choreographer. The Shae Lynn programs have served him well, but I don't want him to follow Nathan's path entirely. Branch out!

 

[lariko]

I really hope the deal with GC works out! But I also liked how Rigini choreographed his gala. I can't wait for his choices for music! I also hope he does more shows this summer and develops his connection with the audience even more. He's really advancing fast in that area!

Obviously, above all, I pray for no injuries.

 

[Arigato]

I didn't know how to put into words what I was trying to say and I knew instantly that statement would get a (deserved) rebuttal. I cringe when people call the second mark the 'artistic' mark, because they aren't (or shouldn't be) judging "artistry", how could you really. I understand PCS has the bullet points. PCS is really a "second technical mark" if it's done correctly. But we have to face reality, it just is not applied how it should be, and it never will. Plushenko got 9s for transitions and I'm unable to think of any notable transitions or MITFs in any of his programs. (Did he ever do a spread eagle, ina, spiral, ANYTHING in his programs? I don't remember any).

The "artistry" of Plushy:



If you notice, they hammered him on his tech scores but his presentation scores shot up high. He had one fall. So? It's not logical to throw out an entire program because of a fall. His fall cost him on the tech side, not the presentation side. Nor should it. What people are complaining about in current times are guys getting higher PCS marks because they landed a bunch of jumps. Plushy did not do that. He fell. The point I'm trying to make is, they scored him correctly - hit him hard on the tech side and left the presentation score alone.

 

[Mathman]

... excitement building throughout [Malinin's] skate...

To me, that's the key to judging the choreography and presentation of this performance. He did 6 quads AND made a program out of them. TEC + PSCs.

 

[Kris135]

When Yuma won his Olympic medal, people on here remarked on how juniorish his skating was.
Obviously he improved. As will Ilia. As he already has.

But also remember that Yuma was out all of last year with a severe ankle injury. He couldn't jump so basically all could work was skating skills snd presentation. With that amount of work of course those elements would improve but that only goes so far. Another element of skating is performance and there I think Ilia had the edge in that area. Yuma did a program but Ilia put on a performance that may rank up there with some of the greatest skating programs of all time. Jumps and choreography working as one and it came together with such passion from Ilia that you could feel it. I have caught up with the comments about his performance from YouTube video that NBC has put up. Many have said that this performance had made them tear up and cry and have almost never heard that strong of a reaction about anybody else's skating . Not Nathan, not Yuzuru, but Ilia's skating is causing this level of reaction is remarkable especially in jaded North American audiences . Many have said they want more and Ilia could bring millions of new figure skating fans to the sport is crazy. I knew Ilia was special when first saw him at the 2022 Nationals he just had something that was unquie and powerful, and no I am not just looking at his jump list either, that I knew would come through at some point and now it has. I can not imagine how good he is going to be in a couple with some more polish and when he learns to really play up to crowd because it could transform the sport in ways that we can not even imagine I want the arenas to be full again, I want skating to be all over the TV again, i want skating to be popular again, and Ilia may be the key that could unlock all of that.

 

[4everchan]

The crowd went bananas for Ilia but there are definitely many fans who got excited by the jumps. It's not everyday that you see someone jump like that. Just the quad axel and the crowd was numb... The audience KNEW what was going on... it's not like I heard : is this a double or triple? when he did jump... People were counting the quads and they got very excited. Every single jump deserved a standing ovation. From the quad axel to the backloaded 4lz-eu-3f to the very cool 3lz-3a sequence. The very knowledgeable fans knew that this was a one of a kind jumping performance.

I also jumped on my feet too... and well, I usually do not get excited for jumps and I had seen Ilia at ACI just a few months ago.

So yeah... it was the most exciting performance of the night but not because he was super expressive and skating with blade mastery and intricate choreography. It was exciting because the jumps were awesome and he was skating with enthusiasm, youth and absolutely no fear. A true champion.

To even think it's comparable to Yuma's skating skills and choreography is a strange opinion.
I am 100% happy to celebrate what he put on the ice a few days ago. I am 1000% happy I got to experienced that.
I don't think we need to cheer for things that were not there though.