2018-19 Ladies' power ranking

[Spirals for Miles]

My ranking for the GP:

1. Alina
2. Bradie
3. Rika
4. Evgenia
5. Satoko
6. Elizaveta
7. Mai
8. Loena
9. Kaori
10. Wakaba

My ranking for end of season / worlds predictions:
1. Alina
2. Evgenia
3. Bradie
4. Rika
5. Wakaba
6. Satoko
7. Elizaveta
8. (Kaori)
9. (Mai)
10. Elizabet

 

[Elucidus]

Jumps not satisfying the good take-off and landing plus effortless throughout bullets should be capped at +3 and that’s still generous for some jumps, with some uncalled < as well. SS and IN marks are not in the same league when compared to Kostner for example. She has difficult transitions though but they clog the program along with disjointed music cuts, rushed moves, and should be reflected in a much lower CO mark (7’s). However, this is mainly due to her choreographer’s approach and she deserves much better programs. Judges though are not doing her a favour by saying that she has little to improve and her team may get a reality check when she faces off against the top ladies later this season.

Are you seriously that naive? I mean last season didn't taught you anything? Ok, here we go - I will quote couple of people I am agree with from other topic

A couple of people on twitter complaining the "Eteri Girls get high PCS"
Did they ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, that "busy" choreography might be what the judges are looking for?

Figure Skating has developped. When people complain about "positions not held long enough" and "busy" it simply means that Alina has choreography and transitions – what the judges are looking for and reward. Sometimes when I go back to old Michelle Kwan programs I understand what some posters here intend. But honestly from today's perspective I don't see anything special in Kwan's programs apart from the theatralic face, long set-ups for jumps, crossovers and two-foot skating. If you had designed that kind of program for Alina, with elegant gliding and holding positions, she would not have become Olympic champion in 2018.

But, yes, the aesthetics of figure skating is slowly changing towards more complex and choreographically "busy" programs. That's what people like nowdays. Judges can't fight against people's massive taste. Back in the days it was more like: intro, lap around the ice, long setup skating two-footed across the icerink, jump, setup, jump, crossover, setup, jump, some hands wigglings, step-sequence, crossover, jump, setup, jump, spins, setup, jump, chore-sequence, setup, jump and final spins.

Love or hate Eteri-team's program, but their program DO feel more self-contained, monolithic and look like uninterrupapted art piece. But, certainly, skater have to be technically skilled and phisycally ready in order to pull it off. And seems like ISU likes that. They like that FS is getting more artistic and keeping the athletic comparative side too. It's not physically easy to skate Eteri's program - let's agree on that. Besides we see on the scores how judges are trained by ISU to evaluate programs like that, where element goes after element, and there are beautiful and difficult elements going in and out of almost every jump. It's just looks more pleasant, it looks more like dance and less like sport with series of obligatory jumps, steps and spins. And international omni-partisan love of FS fans to Medvedva, Zagitova, Kostornaya, Scherbakova, Trusova, Lipntiskaya is a clear evidence of approval.

It's already a trend. I see how some Japanese coaches and skaters mimicking and adopting the same approach. They see the writing on the wall. Eteri is not the only and the first one to create such programs, but her team really was able to successfully pick this trend up and they know how to celebrate it. They celebrate all strong features and sides of their skaters, and trying to downplay their weaknesses. They know what's good and what would audience would like and they just celebrating it in all their programs of their students. Eteri is not innovative, but she is a successful coach who recognized the trend and she knows how to create programs according to the skills of the student and train them to perform flawlessly. Let's be fair, everybody.

Just food for thought

P.S.: in other words I expect Kostner's pcs will drop this season and she couldn't be as competitive as earlier - due to changed approach to judging and higher penalty for mistakes. I strongly suspect her relatively high scores last season were more due to political/marketing reasons considering that all russian final in european championship isn't good for ISU image. Now however thay have Loena to push.

 

[BillNeal]

^ Your argument and your actual own words have very little substance. You just ask a bunch of leading questions and quote a large amount of text from others that have little to do with your argument (and it's not clear what it is). Your post-script also doesn't take into account the fact that the new SOV scale rewards quality, something that Kostner presents a great amount of in her elements and overall skating. Additionally, it is marred by a conspiracy theory. Therefore, I can't take your post seriously.

 

[VenusHalley]

Maybe the crammed programs wuth transitions for sake of transitions reflect the ADHD culture where people need to be bombarded by stimuli every second because they would get bored.
So some would find spiral sequences now boring.... because its few seconds of one graceful pose instead of flapping and flailing throughout the whole program.

But hopefully... after oversaturation of non asthetic programs made solely for milking the system... balance will be found again.

 

[chopinskate]

Maybe the crammed programs wuth transitions for sake of transitions reflect the ADHD culture where people need to be bombarded by stimuli every second because they would get bored.

You realize this isn't new right? The new wave of Russian girls (specifically Eteri's lot) dialed it up to 11 after 2014, but seriously, constant transitions and backloading and awful spins and footwork were being mocked between 2010-2014, and the trend was even being noticed since 2007-08 season. Notice Yuna Kim's spread eagle- 2A that she included in every program regardless of whether or not it worked with the music.

I have absolutely no reason to care about this discussion given that the Ladies' discipline is my least favourite one at this point (even behind ID that I don't even watch), and some Russian Ladies did take it up to a ridiculous extent, such that their programs just look crammed. But this literal interpretation of components had been coming for a while because the CoP cares more about points (and it did nothing to address proper PCS scoring). Although there are still choreographers who don't do it to quite that extent, I guess, out of a sense of pride perhaps, but the choreographic beauty of holding positions, spirals blah blah hasn't really been around for a while. There have been very few programs, even from this previous quad and the one before that and the one before that captured any real choreographic soul.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

A lot of these posts aren’t even making power rankings

Sasha FTW!! #1

Everyone else fits in somewhere below that

2)Alina
3)Bradie
4)Rika
5)Zhenya
6)Satoko
7)Lil Bet
8)Masha
9)Wakababy
10)Mariah


Honorable Mentions(Please Surprise me)
Liza, Polina, Gabby, Carolina,Stasya, Sofia, Loena

ETA: I didn’t put much logic into this. Just my gut instinct and the first names that popped into my head with a few that I went back and edited. It’s just for fun right

 

[chopinskate]

A lot of these posts aren’t even making power rankings

Sasha FTW!! #1

Everyone else fits in somewhere below that

Well, it's too early, and it's just a game. But yeah, the next season one would be more fun in a sense.

 

[colormyworld240]

Jumps not satisfying the good take-off and landing plus effortless throughout bullets should be capped at +3 and that’s still generous for some jumps, with some uncalled < as well. SS and IN marks are not in the same league when compared to Kostner for example. She has difficult transitions though but they clog the program along with disjointed music cuts, rushed moves, and should be reflected in a much lower CO mark (7’s). However, this is mainly due to her choreographer’s approach and she deserves much better programs. Judges though are not doing her a favour by saying that she has little to improve and her team may get a reality check when she faces off against the top ladies later this season.

And what take-off and landing are you referring to? Pre-rotation and blade touching the ice on toe jumps? Then you should cap the jump GOEs at +3 for all female skaters, including current world and olympic champions and medalists. Since you bring up Kaetlyn specifically in your other post, she also pre-rotates as much as all the other ladies. Some one should call Kostner, Sotskova, Tsurskaya, Tuktamysheva, and Chen and tell them they're the only ones who can get over +3, if they land them. As for Alina's landings, she has a ton of flow out of her jumps now so I'm not really sure what you're talking about. I agree her SP should be lower in CO PCS, but it seems the judges love it as that mark is higher than her other PCS. So perhaps it's subjective.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Well, it's too early, and it's just a game. But yeah, the next season one would be more fun in a sense.

In most sports though power rankings often are used in the beginning and before the season. It’s not usually based on current results but rather on history and a projection. I think it’s just a fun way to rationalize which predictions we’ll make in the prediction threads which are not too far off. Yeet!!

 

[chopinskate]

In most sports though power rankings often are used in the beginning and before the season. It’s not usually based on current results but rather on history and a projection. I think it’s just a fun way to rationalize which predictions we’ll make in the prediction threads which are not too far off. Yeet!!

But people did somewhat base them off current CS results and the state of the programs as they currently are

Oh well. I'll sit it out. hwell:

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

But people did somewhat base them off current CS results and the state of the programs as they currently are

Oh well. I'll sit it out. hwell:

I did too #guilty

 

[BillNeal]

And what take-off and landing are you referring to? Pre-rotation and blade touching the ice on toe jumps? Then you should cap the jump GOEs at +3 for all female skaters, including current world and olympic champions and medalists. Since you bring up Kaetlyn specifically in your other post, she also pre-rotates as much as all the other ladies. Some one should call Kostner, Sotskova, Tsurskaya, Tuktamysheva, and Chen and tell them they're the only ones who can get over +3, if they land them. As for Alina's landings, she has a ton of flow out of her jumps now so I'm not really sure what you're talking about. I agree her SP should be lower in CO PCS, but it seems the judges love it as that mark is higher than her other PCS. So perhaps it's subjective.

Examples: Her 3Lz!+3Lo< in both programs. She got multiple 4's for it in her SP and a 5 for it in her FS. Tight or shaky landings for her 2A's. Her 3Lz!+3T which she got 4's and a 5. And her squeaked out 3F+2T+2Lo.

 

[yume]

Way too early to say who will run the season. But i love that Wakababy is so low in predictions.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Examples: Her 3Lz!+3Lo< in both programs. She got multiple 4's for it in her SP and a 5 for it in her FS. Tight or shaky landings for her 2A's. Her 3Lz!+3T which she got 4's and a 5. And her squeaked out 3F+2T+2Lo.

Alina doesn't even flutz.
Nor was her loop URed.

 

[neusw]

Examples: Her 3Lz!+3Lo< in both programs. She got multiple 4's for it in her SP and a 5 for it in her FS. Tight or shaky landings for her 2A's. Her 3Lz!+3T which she got 4's and a 5. And her squeaked out 3F+2T+2Lo.

ok...so you managed to see a ! when the camera angle was a direct profile view of the blade. She has never gotten a ! marking because she doesn't have an unclear edge. I agree the 3Lo was borderline in the FS, but the SP was at most 60 degrees under.

Actually, these are probably the same people who try to argue on twitter that Trusova has a flutz. Which is so epically laughable.

 

[Elucidus]

^ Your argument and your actual own words have very little substance. You just ask a bunch of leading questions and quote a large amount of text from others that have little to do with your argument (and it's not clear what it is).

I thought it was clear from what I underlined by bold font in your quote before. Ok, I will say it literally - judges nowadays (and seasons before) loves "rushed and clogged" programs with lots of transitions. Empty programs? Telegraphed jumps? Not so much. Therefore your claim about possible penalty from judges for such Alina's program in future doesn't make any sense unless you just wanted to express only your own dissatisfaction with that.

Your post-script also doesn't take into account the fact that the new SOV scale rewards quality, something that Kostner presents a great amount of in her elements and overall skating. Additionally, it is marred by a conspiracy theory. Therefore, I can't take your post seriously.

Kostner's skating lacks transitions and consistency of jumps - and it feels outdated, tbh. Judges should be tired of watching such programs many years in a row. And then they see more modern, exciting and complex ones. That comparison is not favorable for her. Also, why conspiracy? Such conclusions are evident just by analyzing judges scores. If anything - claims about russian skaters overscoring just because of Lakernik - that is conspiracy theory )

 

[rikaquegira]

This thread is getting toxic!

 

[colormyworld240]

Examples: Her 3Lz!+3Lo< in both programs. She got multiple 4's for it in her SP and a 5 for it in her FS. Tight or shaky landings for her 2A's. Her 3Lz!+3T which she got 4's and a 5. And her squeaked out 3F+2T+2Lo.

Do you have a screen cap or video by fps? Her Lz looks still slight outside edge to me, and her -3Lo doesn't like UR. The axels didn't look shaky either and she held the edge for both landings for a long time. The 3 jump combo was shaky though. Her GOEs maybe be too high if you compare them to Liza or Kostner's jumps when they're on, but in comparison to the other GOEs from female skaters here and at ACI, her GOEs look alright to me because her jumps are actually higher and have more flow than others who are getting +2/+3. I'd also argue her spins, especially the FC, should have higher GOE than what she's given.

 

[rachno2]

For my top 10, I'm only including skaters who have already competed this season. My reasoning is primarily based on momentum (Worlds results, off-season developments, Challenger Series results). I expect these to change a little after every competition.

1. Zagitova—looking amazing, though perhaps not as unbeatable as last season (even though I already prefer her skating now!). A clean Kihira and Tuktamysheva could challenge, but neither is consistent and neither is the reigning Olympic champion. Lost some momentum with her Worlds performance and test skate showing, but then gained it all back at Nebelhorn.

2. Kihira—A clean Kihira vs a clean Zagitova could be interesting, but will it ever happen?

3. Tuktamysheva—Momentum is definitely on her side; she was the queen of social media over the summer, then she was the queen of the test skates, and then she was the queen of Lombardia with a huge score. She is the ultimate Wild Card in this mix.

4. Medvedeva—The programs are simply not there yet, which is to be expected after such a dramatic change. However, if she skates clean, the judges will reward her (hence, her beating Tennell in the short program and in PCS in the long). If she gains consistency, and Kihira and Tuk lose it (which could very well happen), then I’ll bump her up to #2.

5. Tennell—I’m not convinced that the judges are in Bradie’s corner just yet. She beat Medvedeva, yes, but the scores were very close—the latter fell and had messy spins and a lackluster program, and still had higher PCS. If Tennell remains consistent and keeps medalling at events, then her scores will rise, but she still faces an uphill battle.

6. Miyahara—so far, the new system does not seem to have had much of an impact on Satoko. Her PCS are still too low and her tech calls are still arbitrary and inconsistent. Satton benefits from her reliability, her status as the veteran of Japanese women's skating, and her great programs this year. But will it be enough?

7. Higuchi—As the reigning World silver medalist, she still has some positive momentum going into the Grand Prix. However, that won’t be enough if she has more rocky performances, especially when the women in her own country are so good.

8. Mihara—reliable like Satoko, but risks getting lost in the shuffle with Kihira/Miyahara/Higuchi/Sakomoto. Could go ahead of Higuchi if she stays consistent, but I give Wakaba the edge for the time being on the strength of her WSM.

9. Hendrickx—I love Kostner, but even I admit that the judges sometimes held her up to counter Russian dominance, especially at 2018 Europeans. In her absence, Loena could be the one to fill this role. And why not? She’s fun to watch.

10. Tursynbaeva—I can see her moving up in the rankings, but it’s too early to tell and she isn’t from a large fed.

Others:

Sakomoto—She needs to stand out. The programs this year do her no favors, and I think any positive momentum she has from going to the Olympics last season is counteracted by Wakaba's WSM and Kihira's fabulous senior debut.

Honda—I really like her programs this year, but she runs the same risk as Sakomoto and Mihara of not standing out, especially if she remains inconsistent.

Sotskova—The programs looked good at test skates, and it will be interesting to see them in competition at Japan Open.

Panenkova, Konstantinovna—too early to tell, but they could challenge for the third spot on the Russian national team if Liza and Masha have problems

Daleman, Tsurksaya—powerful skaters who are unfortunately having poor starts this season. Daleman can afford to peak later, but Tsurskaya doesn’t have that luxury in a country as competitive as Russia.

 

[yume]

Kostner's skating lacks transitions and consistency of jumps - and it feels outdated, tbh. Judges should be tired of watching such programs many years in a row. And then they see more modern, exciting and complex ones. That comparison is not favorable for her. Also, why conspiracy? Such conclusions are evident just by analyzing judges scores. If anything - claims about russian skaters overscoring just because of Lakernik - that is conspiracy theory )

IMO, when judges score Kostner, they don't score the program but the person. That's why an epic bombing can get 75 PCS.
So don't expect them to be tired.