2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Jeanie19]

Sometimes that question about the quantity of movements seem a generational one. Youngest vs oldest audience, rhythm vs elegance.

Let's try to not generalize. I'm older, but I do not miss front loaded programs, telegraphed jumps or the 6.0 judging. I like the jump sequence to match the program.

 

[plushyfan]

She was overscored in her dominance era and the judges left her during the Olympics.. instead of helping her to develop and grow when it was the case ). Probably, the same will happen with Zagitova.:shocked:

Did the judges leave Zhenya? Really? They received same scores for LP 156, 65. Both of them received incredible high PC scores Zhenya 77.47, Alina 75.03 . In the SP Alina was undoubtadly stronger in technic she received higher scores. Zhenya received 10s in PC points.

I care about the SS because they are essential for having a good program and performance.

Alina was incredibly good she had great program and performance in Carmen at Nebelhorn Trophy. You can be happy your criteria is fulfilled.

 

[moriel]

She has bad skating skills, she doesn't gain speed easily, without effort, therefore she has to bend, that's why she has bad posture.
It is even visible if you compare Alina's gliding with the Japanese for example or Kostornaya.

Well, Kostornaia maybe (but that does not mean bad skating skills still)
As for gaining speed, it is understandable that it is much easier to gain speed while you glide on two foot through the rink than while you are doing 100500 transitions and steps.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

not randomly. purposely in the music.
Because it is better. And it's more complex. It's look like uninterrupted art piece. beautiful and interesting. And I find all poses totally fine and finished. and more important difficult and tecnical.

I’ve really enjoyed watching this new style develop over the years amongst younger Russian skaters. It’s full of precision and focus that coalesces into a sort of chaotic beauty that undoubtedly is completely controlled by the skater. It’s a madness that carries a certain aesthetic that when combined with the skaters determination and personality has an undeniable appeal. I wouldn’t say every program that incorporates this style is to my liking but that’s ok. I’m not certain I understand the criticism thrown so casually but I’m sure some of the greatest artists faced similar backlash in their days. People who create new ways to express themselves are often met with similar attitudes.

I don’t usually like flirty outward programs that rely on facial expressions to sell a program. I guess if it comes naturally to a skater I can appreciate it but I don’t think it’s better or worse than any other way to deliver a program. People say Tarakanova is stone faced and I just say look at her skating. That is where you’ll find her expression and it’s very energetic and full of emotion.

BTW: If I don’t like a program or even a skater it would be hard to tell. I just don’t talk much about them. Mum is the word

 

[plushyfan]

Well, Kostornaia maybe (but that does not mean bad skating skills still)
As for gaining speed, it is understandable that it is much easier to gain speed while you glide on two foot through the rink than while you are doing 100500 transitions and steps.

Yes, I forgot to mention this but it was in my mind, too!!!

 

[atsumiri]

Youngest vs oldest audience, rhythm vs elegance.

if you're ... about 27-30 y.o ..... What will that tell? Youngest or oldest ?

 

[TGee]

not randomly. purposely in the music.
Because it is better. And it's more complex. It's look like uninterrupted art piece. beautiful and interesting. And I find all poses totally fine and finished. and more important difficult and tecnical.

btw You can't seriously think that two-foot skating with just jump-setups and some hands wigglings are more complex. that isn't even funny. [emoji23]

Yes, but a complex program delivered by someone with good skating skills would be even better.

(Echos of my mother in my head saying 'look at the feet!' whether talking about ballet or skating....)

 

[moriel]

if you're ... about 27-30 y.o ..... What will that tell? Youngest or oldest ?

depends on the program style you like =P

 

[Haikush]

Zagitova's bad posture was really noticable in this program. I didn't realize how bad it was actually. Last year's programs hid her weaknesses to a great extent but thic Carmen actually highlights it. I also don't like the choreo but that's a personal taste..... But reputation.......

 

[madison]

Did the judges leave Zhenya? Really? They received same scores for LP 156, 65. Both of them received incredible high PC scores Zhenya 77.47, Alina 75.03 . In the SP Alina was undoubtadly stronger in technic she received higher scores. Zhenya received 10s in PC points.



Alina was incredibly good she had great program and performance in Carmen at Nebelhorn Trophy. You can be happy your criteria is fulfilled.

Maybe by your standards.....

She didn't receive 160 for example, as before.... If so, she would have won... or even 158 would have been enough.

 

[moriel]

Maybe by your standards.....

She didn't receive 160 for example, as before.... If so, she would have won... or even 158 would have been enough.

I am not sure about judges...
But if you take the Olympics, and just the Olympics, it is pretty obvious that Alina should win gold and Zhenya, silver, based on their performances there.
I dont really care about the scores, but i think the only thing debatable there is that Alina should be also ahead of Zhenya in FS, since it was simply an OGM performance and a crazy FS.

 

[madison]

I am not sure about judges...
But if you take the Olympics, and just the Olympics, it is pretty obvious that Alina should win gold and Zhenya, silver, based on their performances there.
I dont really care about the scores, but i think the only thing debatable there is that Alina should be also ahead of Zhenya in FS, since it was simply an OGM performance and a crazy FS.

The FS was actually weak in comparison to the FS skated in the Team event for example...she missed the first combo and wasn't relaxed after that, missing the accents of the music. So it's really arguable that she should have won the free skate. It is even more interesting how the PCS increased from around 67 at Lombardia to 75 at Olympics for the same program, skated almost the same.

 

[Sugar Coated]

How are randomly thrown in transitions for sake of milking the system any better?
how is not having enough time to finish the pose and rushing things better?

I never understood this logic when people criticized Zagitova for backloading. Why wouldn’t they want to “milk” the system to win? The problem is then with the system, not their programs. No one is going to say, “let’s get less points since some fans think it makes it more artistic.”

 

[Seruleane]

The FS was actually weak in comparison to the FS skated in the Team event for example...she missed the first combo and wasn't relaxed after that, missing the accents of the music. So it's really arguable that she should have won the free skate. It is even more interesting how the PCS increased from around 67 at Lombardia to 75 at Olympics for the same program, skated almost the same.

Evgenia’s PCS also rose during her first senior season from 58 at Ondrej Nepala Trophy to 72 at World Championships in Boston so this is typical. Also, I hate to keep rehashing this but when people keep trying to portray Alina as undeserving of Olympic gold I feel compelled to defend her. Alina missed her first combo but made a spectacular recovery. She gave a confident and commanding performance. Evgenia may have skated foot perfect but it was far from her best skate. She looked very frail on the ice and her jumps were heavy and labored. She looked much better her 16-17 season. So no, it’s not arguable to me at all that Alina won the free skate. Of course, just my opinion...

 

[Fluture]

I am not sure about judges...
But if you take the Olympics, and just the Olympics, it is pretty obvious that Alina should win gold and Zhenya, silver, based on their performances there.
I dont really care about the scores, but i think the only thing debatable there is that Alina should be also ahead of Zhenya in FS, since it was simply an OGM performance and a crazy FS.

Don‘t agree. I love Alina so I‘m not saying this to badmouth her or anything but at the Olympics, Zhenya and Alina were pretty on par. In the individual event, I would have had Zhenya first. Had Alina skated the program she showed during the Team Event, I would have had her for the win without a doubt. It‘s not about the mistake she made on the first 3Lz. It was barely visible and she spectacularly made up for it by adding the 3Lo very late in the program. It was more that she didn‘t seem relaxed during the program and while the 3Lz-3Lo was right to the beat of the music, other things weren‘t. She seemed tense which is quite understandable. Zhenya however had an almost technically perfect skate and her performance was obviously more passionate. She should have been ahead in PCS by a bigger margin. But that’s just my opinion. Overall, I‘d say they were pretty equal in the FS ans that’s why it came down to the SP that Alina won. I have no problem with Alina‘s victory at all. I think it could have been both of them but Alina is a splendid Olympic Champion who skated tremendously well considering her age and the whole circumstances.

About the style-debate: I don‘t think it is related to age or when you started to watch skating which program style you like. I‘m very young and I started to watch skating casually around 2014. I love Yuna‘s or Caro‘s programs and their ability to hold a move and make a special moment out of it. But I also appreciate the programs Team Eteri‘s got. It‘s matter of personal taste and ultimately, no style is better than the other. It‘s just that the sport is changing and nowadays the busy programs get rewarded more.

 

[madison]

Evgenia’s PCS also rose during her first senior season from 58 at Ondrej Nepala Trophy to 72 at World Championships in Boston so this is typical. Also, Evgenia and Alina’s presentation did improve so it’s not entirely unjustified.

But in Nepela, as far as i remember, Evgenia wasn't perfect, had mistakes, falls, so therefore she had low PCS.
It might be typical, but it doesn't mean that the raise is legitimate.
While I do agree that Alina developed from the junior competitions, I, for example, don't see such a big gap (of 8 points) between her performance at Lombardia and that at Olympics.

 

[madison]

Evgenia’s PCS also rose during her first senior season from 58 at Ondrej Nepala Trophy to 72 at World Championships in Boston so this is typical. Also, I hate to keep rehashing this but when people keep trying to portray Alina as undeserving of Olympic gold I feel compelled to defend her. Alina missed her first combo but made a spectacular recovery. She gave a confident and commanding performance. Evgenia may have skated foot perfect but it was far from her best skate. She looked very frail on the ice and her jumps were heavy and labored. She looked much better her 16-17 season. So no, it’s not arguable to me at all that Alina won the free skate. Of course, just my opinion...

If you look to Alina's free program you could see that she missed all the accents of the music before the combo 3lz3lo. It was obvious that she was nervous and focused on jumps, not on the music. In the team event, she skated the free much better. The short, indeed, was her best performance there, I think.
I will not start to defend Evgenia's skating, especially from the period 2016-2018, I was never a fan of it... but her performance at Olympics was, in my opinion, her best, very emotional and authentic from heart.
Honestly, for me, Alina's win, and all the context with Evgenia's injury ,was a matter of destiny and luck.....Now, she has to prove and to work further and I have to say that she is doing that great, with this start of the season.

 

[atsumiri]

not OG again.......

 

[Jeanie19]

But in Nepela, as far as i remember, Evgenia wasn't perfect, had mistakes, falls, so therefore she had low PCS.
It might be typical, but it doesn't mean that the raise is legitimate.
While I do agree that Alina developed from the junior competitions, I, for example, don't see such a big gap (of 8 points) between her performance at Lombardia and that at Olympics.

Plus Evgenia had a fall at Nepela, plus she had that ugly dress.

 

[mau]

What makes you believe a lot of movement occurring rapidly is more difficult then sustaining difficult positions on proper edges with good speed?

I don’t find anything memorable about Alina’s program other than the horrible POTO cuts, and I doubt that’s how they want the program to be remembered.
I also don’t believe they are more pleasing to watch as to me it appears as though her skating skills are too weak to properly execute sustained movement.

I so miss the days off beautifully deep edged well sustained spiral sequences.

That's not true.

As she showed at The Ice show, she can sustain a beautiful Arabesque spiral with a really good edge control, speed and balance. Just because she doesn't do it on her actual programs it doesn't mean she can't.