2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating | Page 528 | Golden Skate

2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

Rehashing endlessly the 'why did Zhenya leave her long time coach' question is the problem.

I don't see it as a problem because people see how her results deteriorate and ask this question. If she shines in France winning safely over Kihira who is higher in my personal current power ranking then I am sure it will subside Even now her missing the combo cost her about 12 points. With 209-210 win there could be some critique but the main tune would be that she is on the right track.
 
This thread is always a mess somehow lmao
at least in the middle of all this Medvedeva talk i managed to find out that Alyona is competing next week. I hope we can see her 3A there :agree:
 
Giving this thread a more positive note...

weekend recap:
Two medals at Skate Canada: Gold for Liza and bronze for Zhenya!
One medal at Golden Bear: Gold for Alena Kanysheva!

upcoming:
Grand Prix Finland: Alina, Stanislava, Daria!
NHK Trophy: Liza and Maria!
Stage IV: Trusova, Kostornaya, Gubanova, Vasilieva, Fomina, Tsibinova, Pogorilaya! Possibly Kromykh!

Hm, am I the only one here who who thinks that some local russian competition such as Stage IV Cup of Russia will be much more interesting than GP event, I wonder? :rolleye:
 
This thread is always a mess somehow lmao
at least in the middle of all this Medvedeva talk i managed to find out that Alyona is competing next week. I hope we can see her 3A there :agree:

It seems like at least half of it is about Medvedeva:laugh:
 
She has another GP. I hope she wins it. Otherwise, I won't buy any long-term talks anymore. And what I think (just my guess after J. Brown's remark) is that everything is based on her own will of steel and very hard work. There is little that Orser is giving to her (or Borser). But even if they are on good terms with Eteri once again her coming back might not work unless she can master quads. The momentum of glory seems to be lost for good. There is a good business book on self-deception as the biggest impediment for executives. Talking now about Bejing 2022 is self-deception to me.

She had her will of steel and very hard work with Eteri as well, who even said that she didn’t have as much talent as the other skaters in the group. And Beijing is a goal, not a self-deception... I’m sure Zhenya knows what she needs hence the coaching change.
 
Giving this thread a more positive note...

weekend recap:
Two medals at Skate Canada: Gold for Liza and bronze for Zhenya!
One medal at Golden Bear: Gold for Alena Kanysheva!

upcoming:
Grand Prix Finland: Alina, Stanislava, Daria!
NHK Trophy: Liza and Maria!
Stage IV: Trusova, Kostornaya, Gubanova, Vasilieva, Fomina, Tsibinova, Pogorilaya! Possibly Kromykh!

Still makes me sad that Elena (expectantly) withdrew from NHK. But the thing is I saw on twitter that her season isn't over yet? She can't go to Nationals, right? So what else would she be able to compete in
 
well that's the part I'm not sure of - whether the rule is that you have to skate a program at the GP to qualify or if just being assigned is enough. I thought it was the former but someone mentioned it as the latter so I'm not sure. If it's the first, then yes, she can't go to nationals (WD from stage 2)
 
Still makes me sad that Elena (expectantly) withdrew from NHK. But the thing is I saw on twitter that her season isn't over yet? She can't go to Nationals, right? So what else would she be able to compete in

I wonder if she can do a challenger? She will need a good SB for next season...if she still wants to compete.
 
I wonder if she can do a challenger? She will need a good SB for next season...if she still wants to compete.

There's one more challenger that hasn't been assigned - Tallinn. But she doesn't normally do challengers, although this would be a different scenario... hm you're probably right.
In which case I would expect assignments for that to be Gulyakova, Gubanova, and Radionova.
 
She has another GP. I hope she wins it. Otherwise, I won't buy any long-term talks anymore. And what I think (just my guess after J. Brown's remark) is that everything is based on her own will of steel and very hard work. There is little that Orser is giving to her (or Borser). But even if they are on good terms with Eteri once again her coming back might not work unless she can master quads. The momentum of glory seems to be lost for good. There is a good business book on self-deception as the biggest impediment for executives. Talking now about Bejing 2022 is self-deception to me.

Talking about what Orser is giving her or not giving her is too early in my opinion. He said he doesn‘ expect immediate results, his method takes at least one year. Let‘s give him this year and then decide.

Also: She improved in her FS. It‘s visible. It‘s still in no way perfect and the lutzes are a pretty big issues but interpretation wise and choreo wise she‘s already a lot better than she was at ACI. She now has a month to improve. I don‘t know how doable it is to win against Rika, she is pretty consistent this season, has a much higher BV as well. So, you essentially say you won‘t buy long-term goals because she might lose her third competition after changing coach? Your opinion but it baffles me a bit, to be honest.

I know lots of people won‘t agree with me but Zhenya is the only person who has the right to make a decision and she‘s also the one who knows what‘s best for her. She‘s gone through a lot and I‘m sure she took her time before making a decision, weighed the pro and cons. So, I think all this “should she have gone to Orser or not“ “should she have stayed with Eteri“ talk is pointless. She is the only one who has the right to judge whether that decision was right or wrong and it‘s obvious that she won‘t go back to Eteri. She is happy with her move.

About the ”moment of glory being lost“. Evgenia is still the most consistent skater ever. Her past seasons were more glorious, obviously, but I think it‘s pretty natural that she has to face some issues eventually, NO ONE can always be perfect and always win everything. She has a lot to improve on and a lot to work but I‘m sure she knows it. I don‘t know why people are writing her off so fast. She showed that she is willing and able to fight. Yes, she might not return to her past “glory“ of winning everything but that was bound to happen eventually. I know there are plenty of issues with her programs and her overall packaging, I‘m not denying this. But to say she‘s totally done? A bit too harsh and a bit too early.

About self-deception: That‘s what makes me angry the most. She is a young woman, let her have her goals and dreams. Everyone has them, it‘s not self-deception. The quad has FOUR season, this is the first. Just because she struggles now doesn’t mean she can’t rebound and come back stronger. I don’t know how realistic it is that she makes it to Beijing but it’s HER goal and she’s willing to give it her everything and try everything she can. I’m sure she knows it will be more than hard. She’s the skater, she’s the one who has been training with Alena, Sasha and Anna co. all day long. She knows what they can do better than any of us. And it doesn‘t matter whether or not she makes it in the end or not, what actually matters is that she tried everything she could to reach her goal. I don‘t know since when having goals is self-deception.
 
There's one more challenger that hasn't been assigned - Tallinn. But she doesn't normally do challengers, although this would be a different scenario... hm you're probably right.
In which case I would expect assignments for that to be Gulyakova, Gubanova, and Radionova.

Yes, that makes sense.

She did Ondrej Nepela last year :)
 
There's one more challenger that hasn't been assigned - Tallinn. But she doesn't normally do challengers, although this would be a different scenario... hm you're probably right.
In which case I would expect assignments for that to be Gulyakova, Gubanova, and Radionova.

Why doesn‘t she do challengers? Has she ever talked about it? At the moment she needs to heal from her injury but I hope she can go to Talinn Trophy later. She really needs to go to Nationals, it wouldn‘t be the same without Lena. I still have hope for her even though it looks pretty grim right now. She‘s just such a wonderful skater.
 
Why doesn‘t she do challengers? Has she ever talked about it? At the moment she needs to heal from her injury but I hope she can go to Talinn Trophy later. She really needs to go to Nationals, it wouldn‘t be the same without Lena. I still have hope for her even though it looks pretty grim right now. She‘s just such a wonderful skater.

I hope she goes to nationals. Because I actually looked forward to her programs so much(especially the fs, less the short lol)
 
You're lucky you don't understand Russian :) , at least as far as TAT commentating is concerned. Yagudin and Grishin on Channel One are a lot more tolerable without TAT than with her. Or Yolanda Chen paired with one of Russian ex-skaters (she's commentating on the Russian sports channel Match Arena). With all due respect to TAT as a coach, she's among the worst Russian-speaking FS commentators ever graced the earth. Uninformative, openly biased, lots of empty talk, can be pretty rude in her opinions. Someone please persuade Ted Barton to learn Russian and Match Arena channel to hire him on a permanent basis - he'd make a good pair with Yolanda Chen...

Hahaha that’s exactly why I want to understand it! Ted Barton is amazing and educational. But listening to TAT wouldn’t be for informative commenting, it would precisely for the reasons you mention. I want to hear her opinion - not because it’s accurate but because it has power and pull in FS world. And also because I enjoy the drama - of it’s why I enjoy watching the K+C reactions and interactions. It’s part of the experience.
 
Hm, am I the only one here who who thinks that some local russian competition such as Stage IV Cup of Russia will be much more interesting than GP event, I wonder? :rolleye:

No I completely agree ... Who needs Grand Prix when you have that skaters in the stage Iv of cup of russia
 
As I said, please look at the skating foot rather than the torso.

I actually thought it was just Zhenya's issue, until I looked at the others last year. Seriously.

Clearly skaters aren't being scored on what their skating foot is doing as long as there is a spiral.

And yes, all of those skaters have great spins other than that, and the occasional travelling and wobbliness didn't get enough of a -GOE to have an overall impact.

But when the body matures, the centre of gravity changes and the back becomes more fragile.

Saying a technique won't be successful for a mature female form is not equal to saying 'bad technique'.

It's just saying that beyond a certain stage of development the cons outweigh the pros.

Alina and Alena have some of the best spins, even if you don't look at their flexible positions. They are two of the fastest spinners and often travel the least out of all the competitors in any given competition. Evgenia has always had issues with her spins travelling, and even when they don't travel her spin radii on the ice are huge, especially in her donut spin. But this is not an issue with the others. Sasha has flexibility problems and her positions are not very good, but even then when we look at her foot, the spin is quite good. Alina has grown a lot since last season and her spins are just as good as they were before. Can you provide specific examples? Maybe segments of videos of the spinning foot in comparison with who you think does the spin better for each spin to illustrate your point? And explain why don't think the technique will hold up with growth? Because it sounds like you're just generalizing Evgenia's shortcomings to all of Eteri's current skaters.
 
To talk about something else than Zhenya: has anyone seen Liza aka #MeanEmpress gala program? I couldn‘t believe it at first... it‘s so provocative I can‘t even... :laugh2: :eeking:
 
There’s a big difference between objective post-competition discussions, looking at skaters’ progress, program changes, etc. then the endless bashing of one coach or another and how xyz of Med’s skating is so hopelessly degraded or so vastly improved to justify the coach bashing. This extreme and exaggerated narrative just perpetuates the fake drama and that is the exhausting part. If you want to continue rehashing all that then there’s already a thread on this forum for critically discussing her current season, no need to invade the fan fest.
I think we're on the same page. Objective post competition discussion is needed.

I've neither bashed nor declared astonishing progress. Just that there are things that Medvedeva needed to change for long term success and it's fascinating to see her working on them.

Unfortunately, that other thread on the Edge on Medvedeva's current season stalled after the latest intervention on the coaching change rehash. (Happy to join in reviving it again...)

That said, as a fan of Russian skating for at least 3 decades, and someone who was cheering on Eteri 6 years ago for challenging the establishment, I believe that I have enough of a long view to be able to assess the pros and cons of Eteri's approach.

Eteri did not invent or define Russian Ladies skating. She's dominant now. She's bringing success. I admire her for her clear eyed strategic view.

But there are cons and trade-offs to her approach. We should be able to discuss them here without being accused of not liking Russian skating or 'having an agenda.'

Actively watching whether Zhenya can take the pros with her and leave the cons behind can give us some ideas about what's possible for other Russian skaters and coaches in future.

Just as Liza Tuktamysheva's resurgence or Tarakanova's upward progress have something to say about other coaching approaches that are making innovations.
 
To talk about something else than Zhenya: has anyone seen Liza aka #MeanEmpress gala program? I couldn‘t believe it at first... it‘s so provocative I can‘t even... :laugh2: :eeking:
My take: a breath of fresh air, perhaps? Seriously, why did you call her 'mean'?
 
Alina and Alena have some of the best spins, even if you don't look at their flexible positions. They are two of the fastest spinners and often travel the least out of all the competitors in any given competition. Evgenia has always had issues with her spins travelling, and even when they don't travel her spin radii on the ice are huge, especially in her donut spin. But this is not an issue with the others. Sasha has flexibility problems and her positions are not very good, but even then when we look at her foot, the spin is quite good. Alina has grown a lot since last season and her spins are just as good as they were before. Can you provide specific examples? Maybe segments of videos of the spinning foot in comparison with who you think does the spin better for each spin to illustrate your point? And explain why don't think the technique will hold up with growth? Because it sounds like you're just generalizing Evgenia's shortcomings to all of Eteri's current skaters.
I think you're right.

Words aren't getting it across, and video will need to be the way to get it across. It's not my skillset but I'll give it a try when I can.

I keep saying 'look at the skating leg and foot' and the response is 'but look at those great upper body positions'...so this is in a loop.

Will do my best.
 
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