2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[DSQ]

what's going to happen next season? there are literally too many Russian ladies in the top 24 SB so far...
Zagitova, Trusova, Tuktamysheva, Shcherbakova, Medvedeva, Kostornaya, Samodurova, Konstantinova, (Kanysheva), Tarakanova, Tarusina - that's already 10 that can do senior GP next season. Maria hasn't skated yet and if she or Polina or Leonova make it on the list, that would be up to 13. it would be so unfair if one of them had to only get 1 spot and someone behind them got 2 simply because they're from another country that doesn't do as well.

I’m definitely sympathetic to these Russian skaters and I’d definitely get in a conversation about a 4th spot for a country that places all three skaters in the top five at worlds but there is a reason why they limit each country to three spots. It’s so that these other countries can even attend Worlds, that way the sport can grow and the next world champion growing up in Morocco or Grease or Argentina can have a shot at competing.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

I’m definitely sympathetic to these Russian skaters and I’d definitely get in a conversation about a 4th spot for a country that places all three skaters in the top five at worlds but there is a reason why they limit each country to three spots. It’s so that these other countries can even attend Worlds, that way the sport can grow and the next world champion growing up in Morocco or Grease or Argentina can have a shot at competing.

Well, yeah. But at the same time, if someone not in the top 12 at worlds or in the top 24 WR gets 2 GP spots simply for being on the top 24 SB list and Russian athletes can't get that due to quotas, that's unfair imo.

 

[leoleo]

what's going to happen next season? there are literally too many Russian ladies in the top 24 SB so far...
Zagitova, Trusova, Tuktamysheva, Shcherbakova, Medvedeva, Kostornaya, Samodurova, Konstantinova, (Kanysheva), Tarakanova, Tarusina - that's already 10 that can do senior GP next season. Maria hasn't skated yet and if she or Polina or Leonova make it on the list, that would be up to 13. it would be so unfair if one of them had to only get 1 spot and someone behind them got 2 simply because they're from another country that doesn't do as well.

Wait, will Kanysheva be eligible for senior next season? i thought she was 13yrs old baby.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Well, yeah. But at the same time, if someone not in the top 12 at worlds or in the top 24 WR gets 2 GP spots simply for being on the top 24 SB list and Russian athletes can't get that due to quotas, that's unfair imo.

Russia just needs to create their own home circuit for skaters. Lord knows they have the talent. Make it a weekly TV show and give these ladies life after ISU competition. Heck...invite people from all over the globe. I’d watch that :yes:

 

[DenissVFan]

I’m definitely sympathetic to these Russian skaters and I’d definitely get in a conversation about a 4th spot for a country that places all three skaters in the top five at worlds but there is a reason why they limit each country to three spots. It’s so that these other countries can even attend Worlds, that way the sport can grow and the next world champion growing up in Morocco or Grease or Argentina can have a shot at competing.

I wouldn't like to take away spots from small federations. In fact, at heart, I root most for small fed skaters and want them to have many opportunities to compete. However, the problem seems to be the number of top level competitions in figure skating as compared with other sports. As someone has already suggested, maybe the Challenger series should have a second round after the New Year so that we can see those great skaters, like Wakaba or Liza last year, more often. Of course there are senior Bs in the spring but their status could be elevated. Or maybe Russia and Japan could organise an annual competition where the six best skaters from each country would face each other. Such competitions exist in other sports, e.g. athletics.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Wait, will Kanysheva be eligible for senior next season? i thought she was 13yrs old baby.

You are correct - that's why she's in parentheses. There are still 10 others on there
The only ones on the SB list not eligible next year are Kanysheva and Sinitsyna

 

[Elucidus]

Or, if and how the stricter tech panels, less generous +GOE and PCS scoring that is the 'new normal' as of the Senior Grand Prix season will impact their scores.

Saying that Alina's 212 is a 3-5th place against the scores that the Juniors have received assumes they were scored the same way Alina was...

And we don't really think that is the case.

Well, I am afraid that the panel at Skate Helsinki was much more lenient than even at JGP (for example her 3Lo jump in combination should be downgraded which was not done). Also JGP events judging was quite strict already - I would even say it was on par with Skate America strictness (just remember UR calls on Trusova's or Scherbakova's rotated 4Lz). Why SA seemed as more stricter then? Because juniors in fact are at much more advantage then seniors in harsher tech panel judging environment - due to their body natural abilities. It's easier for them to jump consistently, rotate fully and check more GOE bullets due to less body weight and higher speed of rotation. So if top russian juniors participated at Skate America instead of seniors - there would be less UR calls and higher GOEs.
Therefore Alina scores could be even lower if she was judged by juniors pre-season standart. I think senior WC tech panel will be more lenient in the end - because stricter panel turns seniors skating in judging farce. On other hand JWC can keep more stricter judging.. if not then juniors can get higher scores then top seniors even by huge TES only

TL;DR it's not that seniors judging became stricter. It's that seniors ladies UR and falls more often than juniors naturally - and that just became more evident with new rules.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

JGP judging is always better.

 

[Fluture]

JGP and harsh?? I think I have missed something. JGP has had one of the most generous scorings ever.

 

[katymay]

I’m definitely sympathetic to these Russian skaters and I’d definitely get in a conversation about a 4th spot for a country that places all three skaters in the top five at worlds but there is a reason why they limit each country to three spots. It’s so that these other countries can even attend Worlds, that way the sport can grow and the next world champion growing up in Morocco or Grease or Argentina can have a shot at competing.

This would be fine, as long as those skaters really ARE growing up in Morocco, Greece or Argentina. Too many of them are B list American skaters with rich connected daddies , growing up in Ohio, Pennsylvania and New York.

 

[moriel]

Same happens for russians too - there are tons of them competing for other countries.
So yeah, when people advocate for a spot for Brazil, for example, I remember that Isadora Williams was born in USA, and lived in Brazil for like 2 years. Its not like Brazil grew up a skater.

 

[moriel]

what's going to happen next season? there are literally too many Russian ladies in the top 24 SB so far...
Zagitova, Trusova, Tuktamysheva, Shcherbakova, Medvedeva, Kostornaya, Samodurova, Konstantinova, (Kanysheva), Tarakanova, Tarusina - that's already 10 that can do senior GP next season. Maria hasn't skated yet and if she or Polina or Leonova make it on the list, that would be up to 13. it would be so unfair if one of them had to only get 1 spot and someone behind them got 2 simply because they're from another country that doesn't do as well.

My guess is that rusfed would force some skaters to not do GP.

 

[Scott512]

I definitely want to take spots away from other countries and small federation's. It's true that figure skating should do what tennis does and go by the rankings. if Russia having four or five figure skaters in a ladies event means another country doesn't get one too bad how about earning your spot? A sport always benefits from its best players competing at the highest levels.

 

[VenusHalley]

I definitely want to take spots away from other countries and small federation's. It's true that figure skating should do what tennis does and go by the rankings. if Russia having four or five figure skaters in a ladies event means another country doesn't get one too bad how about earning your spot? A sport always benefits from its best players competing at the highest levels.

Big feds skaters already receive higher scores as it seems.

If you take spots from smaller feds, in few years, you can rename the worlds to "Ruso-japanese" competition and only two countries will watch. Not good for the sport.

 

[Fluture]

Big feds skaters already receive higher scores as it seems.

If you take spots from smaller feds, in few years, you can rename the worlds to "Ruso-japanese" competition and only two countries will watch. Not good for the sport.

Korea might want to have a say in that, too. Their juniors are looking great so far.

 

[Sugar Coated]

A US Federation robbed Alina from her deserved prize :disagree: Proof:

https://youtu.be/wtOhNKhoKM8?t=1273
Shame on them

I’m not sure I could completely understand what was being said, but to me it seemed like it wasn’t because of the US federation. They wanted to present to her publicly but were denied based on the stipulations of the IOC? It hardly seems fair to blame the US of “robbing” Alina if that was the case.

 

[Amei]

I don't think Alina is the one to worry about it, she still can do 210+ with big mistakes.
What you describe should be the main concern for Zhenya and her team, because right now she is russian #2, not even #1, and that #2 is very shaky.

I disagree a little bit that they don't need to worry about her: I'm a little concerned that we've got a pattern that at every less than perfect performance from her that she's crying in the arena - Worlds last year was understandable it was her first Worlds/competition after winning the Olympics and the whole whirlwind of winning the Olympics plus a legitimate bomb of a skate, but now we've also seen this at test skates (which at the end of the day are pretty meaningless even if she falls on every jump) and at this competition where she didn't perform perfectly in the short.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I disagree a little bit that they don't need to worry about her: I'm a little concerned that we've got a pattern that at every less than perfect performance from her that she's crying in the arena - Worlds last year was understandable it was her first Worlds/competition after winning the Olympics and the whole whirlwind of winning the Olympics plus a legitimate bomb of a skate, but now we've also seen this at test skates (which at the end of the day are pretty meaningless even if she falls on every jump) and at this competition where she didn't perform perfectly in the short.

Yeah, I get being disappointed that you didn't perform your best (and probably wanted to bounce back after the SP). But you still won by a country mile, and it's not like she had a ton of errors. She's human, yes, but she's the Olympic champ and she didn't have a terrible performance by any means.

I will say, this skate at least made the season SOMEWHAT interesting and not obviously a runaway every time she steps foot on the ice. And it's better to get this out of the way now. She's still the heavy fave though and will bounce back in her next event, I'm sure. I REALLY hope her program improves though - other than some neat jumps, it's just so sloppy and poorly choreographed. There are moments where she has nice details and good expression and other times that she looks so mechanical. It just doesn't look quite as effortless as when she did things last season, although it's still early and she can't be expected to nail it every time. She's gotta step it back up though, because Trusova's itching for that Russian title. She can do so much better.

 

[lesnar001]

I disagree a little bit that they don't need to worry about her: I'm a little concerned that we've got a pattern that at every less than perfect performance from her that she's crying in the arena - Worlds last year was understandable it was her first Worlds/competition after winning the Olympics and the whole whirlwind of winning the Olympics plus a legitimate bomb of a skate, but now we've also seen this at test skates (which at the end of the day are pretty meaningless even if she falls on every jump) and at this competition where she didn't perform perfectly in the short.

I thought it was "no crying in baseball", not skating.

I don't see anything wrong with crying.

IIRC she was teary eyed after her SP's at Cup of China and France last year.

To tell you the truth, I'd cry too after popping a jump I'd been nailing in practice that just cost me 10 points.

 

[Sugar Coated]

I disagree a little bit that they don't need to worry about her: I'm a little concerned that we've got a pattern that at every less than perfect performance from her that she's crying in the arena - Worlds last year was understandable it was her first Worlds/competition after winning the Olympics and the whole whirlwind of winning the Olympics plus a legitimate bomb of a skate, but now we've also seen this at test skates (which at the end of the day are pretty meaningless even if she falls on every jump) and at this competition where she didn't perform perfectly in the short.

I’m also worried about her. She looks so scared when she doesn’t perform perfectly. I think this Zhenya/Alina battle may be putting way too much pressure on both of them.