2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[fabienne1996]

I'm curious to know more about why it takes two years to see improvements. Watching her in training, it's clear that her 2A and 3S are a lot better, and the 3S-3Lo is a new addition. The only thing that seems to have gotten worse is her ability to skate in competition like she does in practice. Is she reverting back to bad habits when she's nervous? Maybe that's the case, seeing that something as easy as a 2A has been giving her problems lately. Or perhaps she isn't training with the same intensity as she was under Eteri? Not being able to make the adjustment to salvage a 2T after the shaky 3F doesn't seem like a mistake that Eteri's skaters make because they are so well trained to adapt to various circumstances. Whatever the problem is, I hope her team gets it figured out because she is still too good a skater to be throwing away points with a 1T and a 2A fall.

In thee previous competitions she did not have a problem with her axel just today and as said before yes it is completely natural to fall back into her old skating technique when under pressure. It is so integrated into her muscle memory and she basically has to rewrite said muscle memory.

 

[fabienne1996]

Gilles and Poirier did it last season with their FD. but it generally is pretty uncommon. though in Evgenia's case, I don't know how much of a difference it made since she was having similar issues with the old one. I don't think her problem is so much with the program as it is some sort of mental block.

And I like this programm so much better than ocs.she was performing it not just skating to it. The falls aside I got chills watching her.

 

[melgirl25]

I'm curious to know more about why it takes two years to see improvements. Watching her in training, it's clear that her 2A and 3S are a lot better, and the 3S-3Lo is a new addition. The only thing that seems to have gotten worse is her ability to skate in competition like she does in practice. Is she reverting back to bad habits when she's nervous? Maybe that's the case, seeing that something as easy as a 2A has been giving her problems lately. Or perhaps she isn't training with the same intensity as she was under Eteri? Not being able to make the adjustment to salvage a 2T after the shaky 3F doesn't seem like a mistake that Eteri's skaters make because they are so well trained to adapt to various circumstances. Whatever the problem is, I hope her team gets it figured out because she is still too good a skater to be throwing away points with a 1T and a 2A fall.

I really think she needs to see a sports psychologist. One can skate great in practice and see improvements but if there is a blockage when it comes to competing then she will never benefit from the coaching change.

I blame that OCS program and constantly changing layouts. She has lost a lot of confidence because of that. Her team should have made incremental changes. Such a shame they did this the hard way.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Even if her old technique wasn't the best it still got the job done and she did it without issue. So you can't blame that for her current problems.

She's probably all confused in the head. Thinking of new technique but reverting to old all at the same time at the big pressure moment. Thinking of two things at the same time won't help anybody when you got to be solely focused on one.

There is no pressure in practice that's why she has no problem there. It's the pressure of competition in the middle of great changes that's getting to her. She needs to figure out how to settle down and bring it all together again. I'm sure that will come with more time.

 

[moriel]

It's a bit sad that Evgenia doesn't get the respect she deserves for her commitment to improving her technique and skating for the long-term.

Commitment to improving ones technique is something that can only be evaluated when such improvements happen. We are not there while she trains.

So far, what we have is:

Last year, note that she was injured, all jumps landed in competition
2A(fall) / 2A, 2A, 2A, 2A, 2A+2T+2T, 2A, 2A+2T+2T, 2A, 2A, 2A+2T+2T, 2A+3T+REP, 2A, 2A+2T+2T, 2A, 2A
/ 3S+3T, 3S+3T, 3S+3T, 3S+3T, 3S+3T
/ 3Lo, 3Lo, 3Lo, 3Lo, 3Lo, 3Lo, 3Lo, 3Lo, 3Lo, 3Lo, 3Lo
3F(fall) / 3F+3T, 3F+3T, 3F+2T+2T, 3F+3T, 3F+3T, 3F, 3F+3T, 3F+3T, 3F+3T, 3F+3T, 3F, 3F+3T, 3F+3T, 3F, 3F+3T
3Lze, 3Lz(stepout), 3Lz! / 3Lz, 3Lz

94% success rate on 2A
100% success on 3S/3S combo
100% success on 3Lo
94% success on 3F/3F combo
40% success on 3Lz/3Lz combo


This year:
2A(stepout), 2A(stepout), 2A(stepout), 2A(fall) / 2A, 2A, 2A, 2A, 2A, 2A
/ 3S+3T, 3S+3T, 3S
3Lo<(fall), 3Lo< / 3Lo, 3Lo
3F<<+Combo(fall), 3F+2T, 3F+3T<<(fall), 3F<+1T* / 3F+3T, 3F+2T+2T, 3F+3T, 3F+3T, 3F+2T+2T
3Lz!, 3Lz! 3Lz! 3Lz!+2T+2T, 3Lze, 3Lz! / 3Lz

60% success rate on 2A
100% success on 3S/3S combo
50% success on 3Lo
56% success on 3F/3F combo
14% success on 3Lz/3Lz combo

Ok, we can say the edge calls are more strict this year, so maybe her Lz edge improved after all, it just gets called more.
Ok, they are reworking her 2A, so she makes much more mistakes on this jump while they are reworking it.
But... What happened to her 3Lo? And much more important, what happened to ger 3F? 3F used to be her money jump, and now she lands just half of them.
Were here 3Lo and 3F that bad before that they needed reworking?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

In thee previous competitions she did not have a problem with her axel just today and as said before yes it is completely natural to fall back into her old skating technique when under pressure. It is so integrated into her muscle memory and she basically has to rewrite said muscle memory.

She also missed it in her GP France LP.

 

[moriel]

I really think she needs to see a sports psychologist. One can skate great in practice and see improvements but if there is a blockage when it comes to competing then she will never benefit from the coaching change.

I blame that OCS program and constantly changing layouts. She has lost a lot of confidence because of that. Her team should have made incremental changes. Such a shame they did this the hard way.

I'd say no incremental changes. They should have settled on a layout and stuck to skating it clean.
That is what Medvedeva always did, and it worked for her.

 

[moriel]

In thee previous competitions she did not have a problem with her axel just today and as said before yes it is completely natural to fall back into her old skating technique when under pressure. It is so integrated into her muscle memory and she basically has to rewrite said muscle memory.

GP France, FS: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1819/gpfra2018/gpfra2018_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
SCI SP: https://lamp.skatecanada.ca/results/2018ACI/CSCAN2018_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf
SCI FS: https://lamp.skatecanada.ca/results/2018ACI/CSCAN2018_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

before today.

But ok, they are reworking 2A.

What happend to 3F combos?

 

[Finley]

It's a bit sad that Evgenia doesn't get the respect she deserves for her commitment to improving her technique and skating for the long-term. People sometimes forget that it's been barely half a year but we have already seen some noticeable improvements such as in her jump takeoffs and use of the toe-pick, even when these improvements don't always translate into competition. She got the marks for what she put out there today. Glad to see the support at least from the fans that are watching her in the arena and a more upbeat attitude in the KnC. She and her team are investing in a a multi-year plan and understand that patience with change is needed.

Meanwhile, Alina put in a better performance today than some of her past outings this season but the domestic judges are doing her a disservice with these unrealistic, near-perfect high marks. Given there's Nationals inflation, so not shocked that her 3Lz with shallow outside to flat takeoff edge + 3Lo< are getting a row of +3's, nor the sky-high 38.15 PCS for performing this cut and paste program with flailing arms choreography, rushed movements, hunched posture, and barely held landing edges. I mean 9.46 for SS . The only two times she received such a generous 80+ SP score this season was at Rostelecom and here, both competitions at home. I highly doubt she will be showered with these types of PCS at Euros or Worlds with this type of skating, especially after the international judges have started opening their eyes, as demonstrated at GPF.

Literally, everyone in skating, even down to TSL (who criticize everyone for everything and nothing) is giving the Zhenya the respect she deserves during this tough time. Her PCS she receives are very reflective of respect from international and domestic judges at competitions. Everyone is taking into account that she is dealing with changes. None of the commentators have been horribly critical. If she landed her jumps - she'd be in first. Going back to other competitions - if she skated clean, again, she wins. No question. They would be happy to give it to her but she has to help them to help her by not making mistakes.

By the same token, Alina is dealing with a growth spurt that would have taken a lot of skaters out of the game. We've all seen it happen before. Not sure what exactly is going on with her knees, but that's a lot of tape. She is clearly skating through some pain, a significant growth spurt (she has a completely new body!) and an incredible amount of mental pressure. Of course she is going to struggle to keep it all together. The fact that she is managing to do what she is doing also deserves some respect.

 

[zenskate]

It is so sad that some people can't give Alina the respect she deserves for her commitment to figure skating. You have to go all the way back to the 1980s to find another Olympic champion who continued her career the way Alina is doing, but I'm talking about more than that.

In the 2013 Russian Championships Younger Age, Alina was 22nd, out of 26 girls there. 14 have already quit FS, and of the girls ranked 20th-26th, Alina is the only one who continues to skate.

In the 2014 5th Stage of Russian Cup, Alina was 25th. There were only 29 girls there, and one withdrew. To give you some context, at the same competition, Anna Tarusina was 2nd and Alena Kostornaia was 6th.

Three months later, in March 2015, Alina went to a competition with a broken arm. She broke her leg during warm up. It took not being able to stand for her to withdraw.

Alina has had extraordinary success in the past couple of seasons, but her being a newcomer to the seniors doesn't make her successes less deserving, and it definitely doesn't make the challenges she had, and still has, to overcome less valid. Weakness inspires pity and compassion, but strength incites envy and resentment. I hope Alina understands that. And I think it is important to remind some of her fans of that. Alina is strong. The anti-fans are only loud because they are afraid of her strength.

 

[Scott512]

Literally, everyone in skating, even down to TSL (who criticize everyone for everything and nothing) is giving the Zhenya the respect she deserves during this tough time. Her PCS she receives are very reflective of respect from international and domestic judges at competitions. Everyone is taking into account that she is dealing with changes. None of the commentators have been horribly critical. If she landed her jumps - she'd be in first. Going back to other competitions - if she skated clean, again, she wins. No question. They would be happy to give it to her but she has to help them to help her by not making mistakes.

By the same token, Alina is dealing with a growth spurt that would taken a lot of skaters out of the game. We've all seen it happen before. Not sure what exactly is going on with her knees, but that's a lot of tape. She is clearly skating through some pain, a significant growth spurt (she has a completely new body!) and an incredible amount of mental pressure. Of course she is going to struggle to keep it all together. The fact that she is managing to do what she is doing also deserves some respect.

https://www.fsrussia.ru/results/1819/rusnat1819_ENG/index.htm

Thank you! Amazing scores.

 

[Scott512]

Literally, everyone in skating, even down to TSL (who criticize everyone for everything and nothing) is giving the Zhenya the respect she deserves during this tough time. Her PCS she receives are very reflective of respect from international and domestic judges at competitions. Everyone is taking into account that she is dealing with changes. None of the commentators have been horribly critical. If she landed her jumps - she'd be in first. Going back to other competitions - if she skated clean, again, she wins. No question. They would be happy to give it to her but she has to help them to help her by not making mistakes.

By the same token, Alina is dealing with a growth spurt that would taken a lot of skaters out of the game. We've all seen it happen before. Not sure what exactly is going on with her knees, but that's a lot of tape. She is clearly skating through some pain, a significant growth spurt (she has a completely new body!) and an incredible amount of mental pressure. Of course she is going to struggle to keep it all together. The fact that she is managing to do what she is doing also deserves some respect.

https://www.fsrussia.ru/results/1819/rusnat1819_ENG/index.htm

It is so sad that some people can't give Alina the respect she deserves for her commitment to figure skating. You have to go all the way back to the 1980s to find another Olympic champion who continued her career the way Alina is doing, but I'm talking about more than that.

In the 2013 Russian Championships Younger Age, Alina was 22nd, out of 26 girls there. 14 have already quit FS, and of the girls ranked 20th-26th, Alina is the only one who continues to skate.

In the 2014 5th Stage of Russian Cup, Alina was 25th. There were only 29 girls there, and one withdrew. To give you some context, at the same competition, Anna Tarusina was 2nd and Alena Kostornaia was 6th.

Three months later, in March 2015, Alina went to a competition with a broken arm. She broke her leg during warm up. It took not being able to stand for her to withdraw.

Alina has had extraordinary success in the past couple of seasons, but her being a newcomer to the seniors doesn't make her successes less deserving, and it definitely doesn't make the challenges she had, and still has, to overcome less valid. Weakness inspires pity and compassion, but strength incites envy and resentment. I hope Alina understands that. And I think it is important to remind some of her fans of that. Alina is strong. The anti-fans are only loud because they are afraid of her strength.

Good heavens Alina has come a long way. Thank you for illustrating that. Her growth over the years is amazing.

 

[chasseneige]

I don’t think Zhenya will be going to Euros/Worlds and even if she somehow does qualify, I’m not entirely sure that this would be best for her. She needs time to heal her back, stabilize her programs, and seek psychological help if necessary. Taking a break is not a bad thing. In fact, the road to longevity entails putting your health first and not maxing out your physical and mental capabilities. Zhenya seems to have very high standards for herself and when she doesn’t deliver on competitive ice, her confidence takes a hit. And it’s been happening quite a bit this season.

I’m not so sure if I agree with the various changes that her team tried to make. While I love her current SP more than OCS, the layout changes throughout her programs seem risky and stressful. I don’t know what to expect for the free skate tomorrow but I just hope she’s happy no matter the outcome.

Ideally, the Russian team would consist of Alina, Liza, and Sofia

 

[Scott512]

Literally, everyone in skating, even down to TSL (who criticize everyone for everything and nothing) is giving the Zhenya the respect she deserves during this tough time. Her PCS she receives are very reflective of respect from international and domestic judges at competitions. Everyone is taking into account that she is dealing with changes. None of the commentators have been horribly critical. If she landed her jumps - she'd be in first. Going back to other competitions - if she skated clean, again, she wins. No question. They would be happy to give it to her but she has to help them to help her by not making mistakes.

By the same token, Alina is dealing with a growth spurt that would taken a lot of skaters out of the game. We've all seen it happen before. Not sure what exactly is going on with her knees, but that's a lot of tape. She is clearly skating through some pain, a significant growth spurt (she has a completely new body!) and an incredible amount of mental pressure. Of course she is going to struggle to keep it all together. The fact that she is managing to do what she is doing also deserves some respect.

https://www.fsrussia.ru/results/1819/rusnat1819_ENG/index.htm

It is so sad that some people can't give Alina the respect she deserves for her commitment to figure skating. You have to go all the way back to the 1980s to find another Olympic champion who continued her career the way Alina is doing, but I'm talking about more than that.

In the 2013 Russian Championships Younger Age, Alina was 22nd, out of 26 girls there. 14 have already quit FS, and of the girls ranked 20th-26th, Alina is the only one who continues to skate.

In the 2014 5th Stage of Russian Cup, Alina was 25th. There were only 29 girls there, and one withdrew. To give you some context, at the same competition, Anna Tarusina was 2nd and Alena Kostornaia was 6th.

Three months later, in March 2015, Alina went to a competition with a broken arm. She broke her leg during warm up. It took not being able to stand for her to withdraw.

Alina has had extraordinary success in the past couple of seasons, but her being a newcomer to the seniors doesn't make her successes less deserving, and it definitely doesn't make the challenges she had, and still has, to overcome less valid. Weakness inspires pity and compassion, but strength incites envy and resentment. I hope Alina understands that. And I think it is important to remind some of her fans of that. Alina is strong. The anti-fans are only loud because they are afraid of her strength.

Your most pertinent post was how not since the 80s has a ladies Olympic champion. had a followip season like Alina is having.

Good points about her great success all while growing alot for a figure skater. I doubt Katarina Witt grew at all between her 84 and 88 Olympic golds. Alina is surviving and thriving amid her physical and emotional changes.

 

[Finley]

Your most pertinent post was how not since the 80s has a ladies Olympic champion. had a followip season like Alina is having.

Good points about her great success all while growing alot for a figure skater. I doubt Katarina Witt grew at all between her 84 and 88 Olympic golds. Alina is surviving and thriving amid her physical and emotional changes.

I'm sure she did grow some, maybe not in height but weight, as she should. But the technical game was a lot less demanding back then.

Katarina Witt was also amazing!

 

[bobbob]

I hope some people will finally realize that Eteri's methods are not for no reason--they clearly work.

Evgenia needs to regain her muscle memory. Explan to Brian Orser that she cannot change her jump content every single competition. This may take a long time, I hope she can do it.

 

[neusw]

I'm curious to know more about why it takes two years to see improvements. Watching her in training, it's clear that her 2A and 3S are a lot better, and the 3S-3Lo is a new addition. The only thing that seems to have gotten worse is her ability to skate in competition like she does in practice. Is she reverting back to bad habits when she's nervous? Maybe that's the case, seeing that something as easy as a 2A has been giving her problems lately. Or perhaps she isn't training with the same intensity as she was under Eteri? Not being able to make the adjustment to salvage a 2T after the shaky 3F doesn't seem like a mistake that Eteri's skaters make because they are so well trained to adapt to various circumstances. Whatever the problem is, I hope her team gets it figured out because she is still too good a skater to be throwing away points with a 1T and a 2A fall.

My thinking is this: almost every athlete performs worse under pressure of competition than in practice (2016-17 zhenya included). Therefore, it is your “margin of error” on jumps that makes the difference between how you will do during competition. For example, someone like Alina last year had faster rotational speed, and so could make up for a slight deviation from the jump axis or suboptimal toe pick on her combo—a margin of error that she does not have this year. You can see this year that she is almost always perfect in practice, but can get under-rotations during competition. Similarly, someone with Zhenya’s former consistency probably hit her programs cleanly in practice 99% of the time, so could get 90-95% perfect skates in competition. Due to a confluence of many factors, her margin of error is much smaller this year. Let’s say she’s at 85% perfect run throughs in practice—this may translate to only 65% perfect in competition. It’s not purely a mental thing, but also getting used to new techniques/reps on new layouts, etc. that can take 2 years to fully integrate.

 

[Vandevska]

It is so sad that some people can't give Alina the respect she deserves for her commitment to figure skating. You have to go all the way back to the 1980s to find another Olympic champion who continued her career the way Alina is doing, but I'm talking about more than that.

In the 2013 Russian Championships Younger Age, Alina was 22nd, out of 26 girls there. 14 have already quit FS, and of the girls ranked 20th-26th, Alina is the only one who continues to skate.

In the 2014 5th Stage of Russian Cup, Alina was 25th. There were only 29 girls there, and one withdrew. To give you some context, at the same competition, Anna Tarusina was 2nd and Alena Kostornaia was 6th.

Three months later, in March 2015, Alina went to a competition with a broken arm. She broke her leg during warm up. It took not being able to stand for her to withdraw.

Alina has had extraordinary success in the past couple of seasons, but her being a newcomer to the seniors doesn't make her successes less deserving, and it definitely doesn't make the challenges she had, and still has, to overcome less valid. Weakness inspires pity and compassion, but strength incites envy and resentment. I hope Alina understands that. And I think it is important to remind some of her fans of that. Alina is strong. The anti-fans are only loud because they are afraid of her strength.

I remember watching that video when she tells the arm and leg thing and her crying, and it was heartbreaking :sad21:

 

[Seruleane]

Both Evgenia and Alina deserve huge respect. Evgenia is going through a coaching change, reworking her technique, and coming back from what sounded like a potentially career ending injury. Alina is getting through a growth spurt, probably is also injured in some way (remember there is no such thing as a healthy athlete and she has all those tapes on her legs) and is also working on keeping her jumps and technique. This is despite the fact that she has won the biggest prize and could just retire like almost every other female OGM in history. I suspect the toxic and polarizing media coverage around them has also done damage to both of their mental states. I don’t understand why we need to put down either lady if we’re fans of the other. I am thrilled Alina did well and think she deserves her scores, but I’m also heartbroken about Evgenia’s recent struggles (which I agree are mostly mental). I would love to see Evgenia work her way back up and see the two of them compete against each other at their best and see who comes on top.

 

[Artistry]

About Zhenya - ok, she switched coaches, but can someone please explain why it is necessary to change jump technique? She won almost everything, lost gold medal by a thread at the Olympics - so obviously her old technique got record scores. Why change it?

Do you think this is something psychological?