2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

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Sarah was 4th going into the FS. The system at that time was based on ordinals, and a 4th place skater statistically didn't have much hope of winning. Sarah skated before the top three, knowing she probably couldn't win, so she was more relaxed than she normally would have been. She just skated for the enjoyment of it, rather than concentrating on the technical details as she usually did. She couldn't have known that all three of the top skaters would have a performance glitch: Michelle fell, Irina was slow, Sasha didn't skate clean. So Sarah wound up with 5 first-place ordinals to Irina's 4 and took the gold.

Irina, BTW, was furious. She liked and respected Michelle and wouldn't have felt bad losing to her, but she regarded Sarah as an upstart who had "stolen my gold medal".

Didn't she? Unlike falls and "not clean" "slow" is quite subjective.

 

[katymay]

Since you responded, chuckm, could you please elaborate to me where Gracie "was doing those jumps in practice with no difficulty"? I have scoured a long time and could not come to this conclusion. Since you seem to be someone who values facts I was wondering whether you had anything concrete. Or is this totally made up? At the Cup of Russia she had 3 recorded practices...

11/15 did not do any jumps marked all jumps
11/16 3Lz<<+ 2T, 1Lo <, 3Fe < marked most jumps
11/17 2Lo, 1A marked most jumps, 3Lz < + 2T
Short Program 2Lz+2T, 3Fe< (fall), A*

Of course there are more practices, but I could not see anywhere she had landed a double axel or any triple jump. The only thing I could dig up was a double axel which was done on a harness.

I think before we discuss her even further and make speculations of her "nerves" we should understand her situation first. I think if you attribute all of Gracie's issues to nerves that will be very unhelpful to her.

Agree. Most of the practices she spent standing by the barrier talking to her coaches. I never saw her land even an axel.

 

[Tavi...]

Wow at the ugliness and self-righteous judgement towards Gracie in this this thread. Some of the hyperbole - she stole a spot from some one else, she defrauded USFS or the organizers or whoever by making them pay etc etc - is truly over the top. At worst, Gracie made a mistake in thinking she was ready to compete or that Rostelecom was the best place to start her comeback. I can see an argument that her advisors should have guided her differently, but IMO, the continuing personal attacks on Gracie herself - which are basically thinly disguised scorn for where she’s at right now mentally and physically - are not only ungenerous but really inappropriate.

 

[evasorange]

I might be the only one but I hate how Bradie Tennell skates. She skates really wobbly and uncleanly. I hope she clears up her edges. Her programs aren’t good this year either, especially her short program. I don’t get the meaning.

No you aren’t! I think her skating for a lack of better word is just really unpleasant to the eye. Her jump landings hardly ever look smooth or fluid, when her leg comes down it reminds of how gymnasts stick their landings. Her arm movements are super gawky(although in her defense she often has strange choreography that certainly doesn’t help). I’m shocked she gets consistent level 4s. To me Mariah Bell has all of the grace and fluidity Bradie lacks. If Mariah ever gets it together and goes like 98 percent clean consistently, Bradie’s position as “US lady number 1” is over.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Bradie is one of the few skaters to consistently get Level 4 & +GOE on her footwork (as she did in both programs at IdF), so clearly the judges are finding something to like in her edges.

I think she’s great and I really like her programs this year! TBH I’ve been nothing but impressed by her development from last year to this year. One of the few skaters (not just US) who seems to be on an upward trajectory.

 

[ssminnow]

I might be the only one but I hate how Bradie Tennell skates. She skates really wobbly and uncleanly. I hope she clears up her edges. Her programs aren’t good this year either, especially her short program. I don’t get the meaning.

I really admire Bradie's as a competitor--her SP in France, where she made the last jump into a combo upon missing the planned combo, was a great example. Having said that, if I weren't a figure skating fan, watching Bradie isn't going to turn me into one. There's just nothing interesting about her on ice.

 

[lesnar001]

&#55357;&#56395;&#55356;&#57339; No you aren’t! I think her skating for a lack of better word is just really unpleasant to the eye. Her jump landings hardly ever look smooth or fluid, when her leg comes down it reminds of how gymnasts stick their landings. Her arm movements are super gawky(although in her defense she often has strange choreography that certainly doesn’t help). I’m shocked she gets consistent level 4s. To me Mariah Bell has all of the grace and fluidity Bradie lacks. If Mariah ever gets it together and goes like 98 percent clean consistently, Bradie’s position as “US lady number 1” is over.

I have been seeing this same argument for too many years to remember.

If only _________ did A,B, or C they would be the best!!!!!!!!

Yet the skaters who consistently get results, but aren't annointed as "artistic" are marginalized as "good competitors" or "reliable".

I think for years Ashley was labeled as "Ol' Realiable" while the search was on for the next "little miss perfect" to be the "True Champion"

Well, whether it was 6.0, IJS or anything else they come up with, just looking pretty on the ice isn't usually going to win.

And being a top notch competitor should be something regarded much more highly than just "yeah - we'll tolerate her until a REAL skater comes along".

Don't let the "dream-squashers" get you down Bradie.

 

[ribbit]

Wow at the ugliness and self-righteous judgement towards Gracie in this this thread. Some of the hyperbole - she stole a spot from some one else, she defrauded USFS or the organizers or whoever by making them pay etc etc - is truly over the top. At worst, Gracie made a mistake in thinking she was ready to compete or that Rostelecom was the best place to start her comeback. I can see an argument that her advisors should have guided her differently, but IMO, the continuing personal attacks on Gracie herself - which are basically thinly disguised scorn for where she’s at right now mentally and physically - are not only ungenerous but really inappropriate.

I would upvote this 100 times if I could. I'm repeatedly horrified by the cruelty and smug self-righteousness of posters (by no means all posters in this thread, and not only in this thread) who assume that

1) they know enough about medicine and therapy in general, and the physical and mental health of athletes they've never met, to judge their decisions;
2) they know exactly what it is like to be an elite athlete in a high-pressure situation, or their experience as a recreational skater or other recreational athlete is equivalent to that of an elite athlete's, and can therefore say exactly what a particular athlete can and should have thought and felt and known and done;
3) the level of knowledge and certainty available to a skater before or during a given situation approaches the level of knowledge and certainty available after the fact; and
4) what they think they would have done in a given athlete's shoes in a given situation must be the only right answer, and any other decision is morally inferior, made in bad faith, and reveals the skater to be a terrible person worthy of their contempt and condemnation.

Frankly they remind me of the people who confidently assert that "x isn't torture"--without, it goes without saying, ever having experienced x. Humility, compassion, and awareness of the limits of our own knowledge and experience never hurt anyone. A little more of each would go a long way toward making the world a much better place.

 

[mrrice]

I always thought what happened to Irina is kind of what happened to Michelle at Nagano. Michelle skated carefully and then Tara popped up and had the skate of her life. Sarah Hughes was the World's bronze medalist, so she wasn't that out of contention, but she wasn't seen as a real contender, so she wasn't under the pressure that Irina and Michelle were, so she skated, by far, the best LP of the night. Even then, because of how the rules worked, she wouldn't have gotten gold if Michelle hadn't imploded.

Re: Bradie Tennell, yes, she's a bit angular and gawky, but I love how hard she works and how she's doing her own thing. She's not the most beautiful, fluid skater I've ever seen, but I find her interesting--she's distinctive and she's really made strides in expressiveness.

I agree. I just re-watched her FP from France and I have to say, unless she has a meltdown, she will retain her title. She is, IMO, much better than last year. Bravo!

 

[skateluvr]

Uh, she is a World Silver Medalist.

Yes I know . What I meant by world title was world champion.

 

[Seren]

This thread has seemed really negative to me lately. I am seeing a lot of putting skaters down, unkind words, and generally unpleasant comments. How many of us here can go do a triple jump (I'll answer: Not many)? Or do good footwork? I failed my adult gold moves in the field test (the highest adult specific test- it's basically a weird combination of juvenile and intermediate) because I lost my balance and set my foot down on a rocker. They are really hard to do right! Maintaining a good edge is a lot harder than it looks. Everything in skating is a lot harder than it looks. Elite skaters make it look easy because they spent an insane amount of hours to make it look it easy.

I don't care if you don't like someone's skating- we should be able to discuss it without being mean. And just because we all prefer certain skaters or certain styles of skating doesn't mean that another skater sucks/isn't talented/ect.

 

[MiraiFan]

This thread has seemed really negative to me lately. I am seeing a lot of putting skaters down, unkind words, and generally unpleasant comments. How many of us here can go do a triple jump (I'll answer: Not many)? Or do good footwork? I failed my adult gold moves in the field test (the highest adult specific test- it's basically a weird combination of juvenile and intermediate) because I lost my balance and set my foot down on a rocker. They are really hard to do right! Maintaining a good edge is a lot harder than it looks. Everything in skating is a lot harder than it looks. Elite skaters make it look easy because they spent an insane amount of hours to make it look it easy.

I don't care if you don't like someone's skating- we should be able to discuss it without being mean. And just because we all prefer certain skaters or certain styles of skating doesn't mean that another skater sucks/isn't talented/ect.

Thanks for this! I totally agree with you. I am adult bronze level and working silver moves. Skating is so hard and the thought of putting a program together seems so hard--doing the jumps and spins on their own, fine, but putting everything together--brutal! Triple jumps are incredible. Anyway, sorry about your test--that sucks.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

This thread has seemed really negative to me lately. I am seeing a lot of putting skaters down, unkind words, and generally unpleasant comments. How many of us here can go do a triple jump (I'll answer: Not many)? Or do good footwork? I failed my adult gold moves in the field test (the highest adult specific test- it's basically a weird combination of juvenile and intermediate) because I lost my balance and set my foot down on a rocker. They are really hard to do right! Maintaining a good edge is a lot harder than it looks. Everything in skating is a lot harder than it looks. Elite skaters make it look easy because they spent an insane amount of hours to make it look it easy.

I don't care if you don't like someone's skating- we should be able to discuss it without being mean. And just because we all prefer certain skaters or certain styles of skating doesn't mean that another skater sucks/isn't talented/ect.

A lot of my really close friends were competitors or are even now coaches. When you work with them on your own skating or have seen the work they’ve put into their own or their students it offers a different perspective. Something that can only be experienced. Because of this I find myself a fan of the sport instead of individuals and I wind up just wanting to see everyone do well. I think once you’ve spent time on the ice learning at least the basic skating you get a sense that all the skaters are underdogs. IMO the sport itself and the ice have all the advantages over the skaters who compete. How can you not pull for them all?

As for the mean comments....some of the more well known personalities within the sport seem to normalize hyper criticism and even slanderous gossip. I’ve never understood why this sport tolerates it so much TBH. At least at GS we have the ignore button. :dance2:

 

[moonvine]

I would upvote this 100 times if I could. I'm repeatedly horrified by the cruelty and smug self-righteousness of posters (by no means all posters in this thread, and not only in this thread) who assume that

1) they know enough about medicine and therapy in general, and the physical and mental health of athletes they've never met, to judge their decisions;
2) they know exactly what it is like to be an elite athlete in a high-pressure situation, or their experience as a recreational skater or other recreational athlete is equivalent to that of an elite athlete's, and can therefore say exactly what a particular athlete can and should have thought and felt and known and done;
3) the level of knowledge and certainty available to a skater before or during a given situation approaches the level of knowledge and certainty available after the fact; and
4) what they think they would have done in a given athlete's shoes in a given situation must be the only right answer, and any other decision is morally inferior, made in bad faith, and reveals the skater to be a terrible person worthy of their contempt and condemnation.

Frankly they remind me of the people who confidently assert that "x isn't torture"--without, it goes without saying, ever having experienced x. Humility, compassion, and awareness of the limits of our own knowledge and experience never hurt anyone. A little more of each would go a long way toward making the world a much better place.

You said this very well. And I'd like to add, as I've said before, none of this is life or death - do I feel sometimes it is, yes, especially when I cover my eyes when Alexa and Chris are doing their SBS jumps. But it really isn't. It's only figure skating. No one is going to die because Gracie did not withdraw.

 

[eaglehelang]

This thread has seemed really negative to me lately. I am seeing a lot of putting skaters down, unkind words, and generally unpleasant comments. How many of us here can go do a triple jump (I'll answer: Not many)? Or do good footwork? I failed my adult gold moves in the field test (the highest adult specific test- it's basically a weird combination of juvenile and intermediate) because I lost my balance and set my foot down on a rocker. They are really hard to do right! Maintaining a good edge is a lot harder than it looks. Everything in skating is a lot harder than it looks. Elite skaters make it look easy because they spent an insane amount of hours to make it look it easy.

I don't care if you don't like someone's skating- we should be able to discuss it without being mean. And just because we all prefer certain skaters or certain styles of skating doesn't mean that another skater sucks/isn't talented/ect.

That's how it is in the real world.
In ANY competitive sports for that matter. No place for sugar coating or mushy mushy stuff. I'm sure you've seen how the Russian coaches scold their students in rhythmic gymnastics. Or how strict China coaches are. They are elit athletes, not princes & princesses.

Harsh criticism? Those you call mean comments? In the real adult life we get scolded 4 letter, 8 letter, 12 letter words direct face to face. So what? Cope with it and move on. There's a saying 'Cant take the heat, get out of the kitchen'.

 

[Seren]

That's how it is in the real world.
In ANY competitive sports for that matter. No place for sugar coating or mushy mushy stuff. I'm sure you've seen how the Russian coaches scold their students in rhythmic gymnastics. Or how strict China coaches are. They are elit athletes, not princes & princesses.

Harsh criticism? Those you call mean comments? In the real adult life we get scolded 4 letter, 8 letter, 12 letter words direct face to face. So what? Cope with it and move on. There's a saying 'Cant take the heat, get out of the kitchen'.

I'm not sure what grown adults calling a skater's skating "ugly" and "unpleasant" on the internet has to do with the "real world". You can offer criticism and critique without sounding like a middle school girls locker room. They are elite athletes- they deserve our respect for what they do. That doesn't mean sugar coating anything. As I said, you can offer critique without rudeness. Saying "their edges lack depth" or "they slouch their shoulders" or "they use too many crossovers" is very different than saying "their skating is ugly and they should just give up".

If you have to be disrespectful to get your point across then your argument is pretty weak. Also- I'm pretty sure none of us are elite skating coaches either , nor are all coaches like how you describe.

In real adult life if someone gets in my face with a four letter word I am entirely capable of responding and returning the favor. That isn't something a 16 year old in that environment can do. Turn up the heat without reason and I'll break out the fire extinguisher.

 

[oatmella]

Even crossovers are not easy! I learned them as a child but don’t think I can do them anymore.

Figure skating is so much harder than it looks. One of the craziest things I’ve read on this forum is when someone said they had never skated before, but they could have performed better than Gracie at Rostelecom

 

[bobbob]

This thread has seemed really negative to me lately. I am seeing a lot of putting skaters down, unkind words, and generally unpleasant comments. How many of us here can go do a triple jump (I'll answer: Not many)? Or do good footwork? I failed my adult gold moves in the field test (the highest adult specific test- it's basically a weird combination of juvenile and intermediate) because I lost my balance and set my foot down on a rocker. They are really hard to do right! Maintaining a good edge is a lot harder than it looks. Everything in skating is a lot harder than it looks. Elite skaters make it look easy because they spent an insane amount of hours to make it look it easy.

I don't care if you don't like someone's skating- we should be able to discuss it without being mean. And just because we all prefer certain skaters or certain styles of skating doesn't mean that another skater sucks/isn't talented/ect.

I absolutely agree with not putting skaters down or being unkind. Physical and/or personal attacks against skaters are absolutely unacceptable.

But I believe that critiques and analysis of skating, or a skater's condition, are valid. These comments may be unpleasant to some, but are constructive questions based on fact, and should be stated and analyzed. For example, this may be "unpleasant", but I think it is totally a valid and objective question to ask: "can Gracie do a double axel right now? I saw her do one on harness recently, but not in practice on the ice, only single axels in practice. If not, she may not be in a good position for Nationals." Because it is really a constructive question we fans would like to learn more about. (And I DO NOT need to be able to do a double axel to ask this question, I understand it is difficult to.) It may be nicer to say, oh, she is doing just fine--but what good does that serve? As a forum it is important to promote truth and accountability when we speak.

 

[eaglehelang]

I'm not sure what grown adults calling a skater's skating "ugly" and "unpleasant" on the internet has to do with the "real world".......

In real adult life if someone gets in my face with a four letter word I am entirely capable of responding and returning the favor. That isn't something a 16 year old in that environment can do. Turn up the heat without reason and I'll break out the fire extinguisher.

Of course it does, how one behaves in real life is what we see people post on the internet. In which, from what I've read on this forum, its rather mild comparatively. Including comments abt athletes performances.
In REAL life, I have heard audiences shout to the athlete who just lost his match "Go back home! Dont play anymore" or "You're a disgrace to the country!!"

"Ugly" ,"Unpleasant" is nothing compared to what's said in real life to an athlete, seriously.

I'm refering mainly to the Gracie Gold issue, she's 23. Some fans are acting like she's a glass ice princess that's so fragile she'll shatter to 1,000 pieces anytime.

Even if its 15, 16 year old athlete, if they compete unprepared as in finish last & not being able to complete beginner level elements. It has happened - at an International event. Yes, they got critised, very publically. Along with the wisdom of the coach & sports association for sending her.
Did it deter the althete? No, they soldiered on.
Athletes are mentally tough, they have to be to compete at International level.

In real working life, the customer is always right, even when the customer is dead wrong. Try doing what you say you'll do, in my country : no 1) immediately get fired by my boss.
If you fire extinguisher comparison means physical response,have a police report out on me and have to pay medical fees. AND, being blacklisted from being hired in the same line of work within that state.

 

[doublequad]

*block*