2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

oatmella

陈巍
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
If Karen already has a tendency to UR her existing jumps - I don’t think working on a 3A is the best idea. Better to work on improving her existing jumps.
 

georgia

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
My thoughts on US ladies:

I think unless Ashley makes a big change (such as coach or diet/training routine) she may be a goner. She could go to Tom Z for jump help, and stick with Raf for packaging and Shae-Lynn for choreo, but that seems complicated. If Adam were to retire and she kept going, she may get more attention from Raf, but will it help her?

I think Mirai should stick around. She’s finally starting to get her jumps a litttle cleaner (although not consistent) so I think If she can stick things out like she did over the last cycle, she can become a contender once again with the axel.

Bradie seems to be our biggest hope. Nice jumps, not the choreo maturity yet, but it will come. I just hope she mentally is as strong as she says she is throughout the rest of her career.

Karen needs to leave Tammy. I know that will be hard for her, but sometimes in order to succeed people need to make difficult decisions. She needs a jump specialist because she has the artistry, so I would suggest a Audrey Wesigier or Frank Carroll to help with the urs.

Mariah needs a new sports psychologist. She has EVERYTHING she needs to succeed, just more consistency and fighting spirit. I think Ashley sticking around In the rink can help her competitive mindset, but that may not happen. She also needs to focus on artistry full time with a choreographer on site.

Alysia Liu! Amazing jumps, I just hope she can keep them as she matures.

That’s about it, i hope it didn’t rant for too long!
So you want to send Ashley to Tom Z for better technical help? Really? His skaters unterotate all.the.time. I believe RAF is one of our best jump technicians around. Ashley went to him late in her skating carrier, and yet she did great under him. World silver medalist, doing very , very well with her Grand Prix events every year, except of course for last year, and she kept winning Nationals or be on top three for almost ten years.. Pretty good record if you ask me!
Because I know a Bradie, I can assure you, that no one works harder than her. She also has an amazing relationship with her brilliant coach. That’s an extra benefit.she will great.
 

AshWagsFan

Edges for days.
Final Flight
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Country
United-States
So you want to send Ashley to Tom Z for better technical help? Really? His skaters unterotate all.the.time. I believe RAF is one of our best jump technicians around. Ashley went to him late in her skating carrier, and yet she did great under him. World silver medalist, doing very , very well with her Grand Prix events every year, except of course for last year, and she kept winning Nationals or be on top three for almost ten years.. Pretty good record if you ask me!
Because I know a Bradie, I can assure you, that no one works harder than her. She also has an amazing relationship with her brilliant coach. That’s an extra benefit.she will great.

Good, I hope Bradie does well!!! Happy to hear!
 

klutzy

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
So you want to send Ashley to Tom Z for better technical help? Really? His skaters unterotate all.the.time. I believe RAF is one of our best jump technicians around. Ashley went to him late in her skating carrier, and yet she did great under him. World silver medalist, doing very , very well with her Grand Prix events every year, except of course for last year, and she kept winning Nationals or be on top three for almost ten years.. Pretty good record if you ask me!
Because I know a Bradie, I can assure you, that no one works harder than her. She also has an amazing relationship with her brilliant coach. That’s an extra benefit.she will great.

Yeah, different choreography/music may be needed, but Bradie's coaching is working. If she can add a 3-A, she'll be formidable.
 

Globetrotter

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
You never know, Kostner was out for 2 seasons and came back at 29 and received a lot of technical help from a new coach, maybe Ashley should go to someone different?

It’s a completely different scenario. Firstly, CaroK was out not by choice. She made a stupid mistake due to affairs of the heart over an ex boyfriend. Ashley to me was frankly tired from all the training and discipline. Secondly, CaroK has always been solid in her basics - possibly the best basic SS among her peers, solid jump techniques, good deep edges, no edge errors on jumps, no UR as a whole. She had that to build on. Ashley though always had weak to mediocre SS and never had the solid jump setups and could never sustain her speed into jumps due to her mediocre edges. I doubt she can ever rework them as it will require her to start off on SS which she never had much of.
 

klutzy

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
It’s a completely different scenario. Firstly, CaroK was out not by choice. She made a stupid mistake due to affairs of the heart over an ex boyfriend. Ashley to me was frankly tired from all the training and discipline. Secondly, CaroK has always been solid in her basics - possibly the best basic SS among her peers, solid jump techniques, good deep edges, no edge errors on jumps, no UR as a whole. She had that to build on. Ashley though always had weak to mediocre SS and never had the solid jump setups and could never sustain her speed into jumps due to her mediocre edges. I doubt she can ever rework them as it will require her to start off on SS which she never had much of.

I think Ashley did work on these skills and her jumps, but it's hard to fix things like that in your 20s. I think she had to train really hard under Raf to do as well as she did in 2016. And time and energy spent working on those issues, meant time and energy taken away from other things.

I don't blame her for getting weary--and I think she has. So I applaud her for what she's done, but I also think she's looking at other things besides competing now. And that's okay.
 

artsciboy

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
It’s a completely different scenario. Firstly, CaroK was out not by choice. She made a stupid mistake due to affairs of the heart over an ex boyfriend. Ashley to me was frankly tired from all the training and discipline. Secondly, CaroK has always been solid in her basics - possibly the best basic SS among her peers, solid jump techniques, good deep edges, no edge errors on jumps, no UR as a whole. She had that to build on. Ashley though always had weak to mediocre SS and never had the solid jump setups and could never sustain her speed into jumps due to her mediocre edges. I doubt she can ever rework them as it will require her to start off on SS which she never had much of.

Ashley's skating skills are comparable to most of the top ladies of the last quad. Having seen her live - at her peak in 2016 - her speed and edge work across the ice are no worse than 2-time World Champion and Olympic silver medallist Evegenia Medvedeva. Yes, her skating skills when she debuted were mediocre at best, but the judges aren't idiots - they saw Ashley make improvements and marked her accordingly. They've awarded her high PCS (including skating skills) for a reason - its because quite simply, her skating skills are no better or worse than the other top competitors. Her World Silver, Olympic Bronze, 3 x GPF, 3 US Gold and numerous other international medals speak for themselves.

Her decline in form post 2016 had more to do with decreased motivation than anything else and, quite frankly, was still better than the majority of other US ladies. You make it sound like Ashley has skating skills at the level of a skater who should barely make it out of the novice ranks, which lacks credibility.
 

artsciboy

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Kostner is a former World champion, 5-time World medalist and individual Olympic medalwinner. She has stood on the European podium every time she has competed there since 2006, including 5 European championships. Her strong suit is exceptional presentation coupled with her textbook basic skating skills: she doesn't flutz or lip and rarely underrotates her jumps. But even the best coaching in the world could not bring back a Kostner who could consistently land a 3z and 3f+3t or even 3t+3t. She had good results this year, but not the Olympic and World medals she really wanted.

Ashley at her prime was an excellent (but not outstanding) performer who worked hard to rotate her 3/3 and try to take off the lutz on an outside edge. She reached her peak in 2016 when she won silver at Worlds. Since then, her skating has deteriorated and so have her results. Time off will not have improved her skills or make her more competitive at 27 or 28, and even the best coaching can't revive the skills she had at 24. And even those skills are probably not competitive in the current environment.

You did see the underrotated jumps that landed Satoko Miyahara on the Worlds podium right? Along with those that littered the protocols of the majority of the top 10? How would Ashley not be competitive with that? Bottom line, whether Ashley will be competitive or not in seasons to come will come down to Ashley herself. If Ashley trains and shows up trained, she's more than competitive. The question is given her accomplishments, does she have the same drive that led her to the World medal? Given how long she's been at this, its no shock that her heart isn't fully in it anymore and it showed. That she kept herself in the discussion and relevant even showing up for two seasons to competitions relatively undertrained shows how much natural talent she does in fact have.
 

evasorange

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Ashley's skating skills are comparable to most of the top ladies of the last quad. Having seen her live - at her peak in 2016 - her speed and edge work across the ice are no worse than 2-time World Champion and Olympic silver medallist Evegenia Medvedeva. Yes, her skating skills when she debuted were mediocre at best, but the judges aren't idiots - they saw Ashley make improvements and marked her accordingly. They've awarded her high PCS (including skating skills) for a reason - its because quite simply, her skating skills are no better or worse than the other top competitors. Her World Silver, Olympic Bronze, 3 x GPF, 3 US Gold and numerous other international medals speak for themselves.

Her decline in form post 2016 had more to do with decreased motivation than anything else and, quite frankly, was still better than the majority of other US ladies. You make it sound like Ashley has skating skills at the level of a skater who should barely make it out of the novice ranks, which lacks credibility.

Welcome to golden skate, that's the common line of thinking around here:disapp:!

great post tho! And for all the talks of her decline, and she has since Boston, she still in the past two seasons won Skate America, got a Skate Canada bronze, was in the conversation to make grand prix final before her withdraw this year, and had a second(should have been first) and fourth place finish at nationals. And a 7th place finish at worlds. At 26, she still was getting results no other American lady was-in two years only Bradie(bronze 2017 skate america), Mariah(silver 2016 skate america) and Courtney Hicks(bronze rostelecom cup)have gotten grand prix medals, and none were close to being qualified for Grand Prix Final. If she trained her hardest I believe she could still compete. But as I said before, why should she? She gets such little respect from fed and fans and its such an unfair sport I wouldn't blame her one bit for not coming back.
 

Globetrotter

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Ashley's skating skills are comparable to most of the top ladies of the last quad. Having seen her live - at her peak in 2016 - her speed and edge work across the ice are no worse than 2-time World Champion and Olympic silver medallist Evegenia Medvedeva. Yes, her skating skills when she debuted were mediocre at best, but the judges aren't idiots - they saw Ashley make improvements and marked her accordingly. They've awarded her high PCS (including skating skills) for a reason - its because quite simply, her skating skills are no better or worse than the other top competitors. Her World Silver, Olympic Bronze, 3 x GPF, 3 US Gold and numerous other international medals speak for themselves.

Her decline in form post 2016 had more to do with decreased motivation than anything else and, quite frankly, was still better than the majority of other US ladies. You make it sound like Ashley has skating skills at the level of a skater who should barely make it out of the novice ranks, which lacks credibility.

I never mentioned that Zhenya had excellent SS. Ashley’s PCS were higher primarily from strong performance skills and good choreo, not SS. Compared to say a CaroK or Mao Asada, her basic bladework will come out almost juniorish. Compared to the rest of her peers, it’s very average. I agree with the lack of motivation but you should understand better the context of my response to the original poster - that Ashley will do well by taking a year or two off like CaroK. I don’t think it works as she never had the solid techniques or superior basic SS like CaroK as a foundation to rebuild on.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Back on topic to the state of American ladies skating. Well it isn't the best but it isn't all doom and gloom. American women skating is not dependent on Ashley, Gracie or Mirai all who could still compete and be competitive. You have huge potential in skatelless Karen Chen and Rachel Flatt junior Bradie Tennell - who with a few more consistent skates will move up the pc chart and to the podium. You have Starr Andrews, Courtney Hicks, maybe Angela Wang and others as well as possible come backs from Gracie and Polina. It is an odd time that there three very strong japanese ladies, three strong Russians and two Canadians not to mention Carolina if she continues. THere is hope and Mirai, Ashley, Gracie and Karen when they are on are all medal contenders. soon Bradie will join them - heck they could sweep - okay very unlikely but there are medal contenders. It is not the days of Tara and Michelle or Michelle and Sasha or Sarah or the days of yamaguch/Kerrigan and Harding but there is hope.
 

Koatterce

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 20, 2018
Country
Canada
OT for what's being discussed but on topic for the thread
Karen has skates! no idea where they're from or anything, but she had her SP done and i'd assume she had skates to do that lol
 

sinnerspinner

On the Ice
Joined
May 4, 2017
Midori Ito and Tonya Harding were both doing Triple Axels 30 years ago, but 3As have never become a standard element for Ladies and I expect something similar with quads. It takes a lot of practice time and speed to get those jumps and that seems to come at the cost of some of the other elements.

The U.S. needs ladies who can fully rotate their triples and are consistent in competition. That, more than a jumping arms race, will pull them up in international standings.

Not only that they had triple axel combos. So we need a us lady who is about 4'10 lol.

Should training girls be more aggressive at earlier ages?
 

jFarrisFAN

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Ashley's skating skills are comparable to most of the top ladies of the last quad. Having seen her live - at her peak in 2016 - her speed and edge work across the ice are no worse than 2-time World Champion and Olympic silver medallist Evegenia Medvedeva. Yes, her skating skills when she debuted were mediocre at best, but the judges aren't idiots - they saw Ashley make improvements and marked her accordingly. They've awarded her high PCS (including skating skills) for a reason - its because quite simply, her skating skills are no better or worse than the other top competitors. Her World Silver, Olympic Bronze, 3 x GPF, 3 US Gold and numerous other international medals speak for themselves.

Her decline in form post 2016 had more to do with decreased motivation than anything else and, quite frankly, was still better than the majority of other US ladies. You make it sound like Ashley has skating skills at the level of a skater who should barely make it out of the novice ranks, which lacks credibility.

Any skater can skate fast. The problem with Ashley is the low amount of power she has in her stroking, she doesn’t get enough speed from each individual push. Her glide across the ice is not as smooth as many and she can be quite scratchy.
 

oatmella

陈巍
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
OT for what's being discussed but on topic for the thread
Karen has skates! no idea where they're from or anything, but she had her SP done and i'd assume she had skates to do that lol

yes, skates for Karen are great! lol
 

bubblecherry

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 20, 2018
In the comments people are asking if she's in/moved to Canada. Is there something in the picture that alludes to that? Why would she be in Canada?
 
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