2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating | Page 174 | Golden Skate

2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

I am a little shocked to see Karen's current form. Wonder if it has anything to do with the medications her doctors gave her for her injuries. On the other hand, I am happy to see her flexibility and skating skills are still there.
 
Karen's SP is... shockingly bad. It was probably choreographed for her when she was in peak condition before the injuries so maybe she left a lot out? Still, it wasn't good and the judges clearly agreed. Regardless, I'm glad she's back and hopefully she has time to work out the sloppiness before nationals.

I don't think it was shockingly bad at all. Yes, she seems to be out of shape and even unpracticed, but that's pretty much to be expected at this point. Much better for her to have at least one competition under her belt before USNats so she can feel out the programs on a (relatively small) international stage, rather than debuting brand new programs in January.

I actually... really like the choreography? I think it suits her and the music is very fun. That being said, there's a lot of work to be done and it all depends really on the state of her injuries and whether or not she's even physically capable of practicing enough to get to where she realistically needs to be in order for USFSA to send her to something like 4CC or Worlds.
 
I would say that Gracie has far better basic skating skills and jump technique (she was also a better spinner than Ashley when they were both at their prime) to depend on in terms of a potential comeback.

Ashley would do great on a pro circuit. There's not enough popularity for it to happen in the US, but Japan should really get a pro-circuit going.

Ashley would also struggle with TES more than ever due to the new UR rule.

At this stage, it is more accurate to say that Gracie has greater potential in SS and technical skills. At her peak, Gracie will always score better but right now, I think she is seriously out of practice and not competition ready and probably not even show skating ready. It was pretty clear that Gracie had the strongest SS among the US ladies when she was competing but right now she has to rework things. Her innate talent is there but it still takes a lot of hard work and self motivation.
 
So Karen is still with Tammy but training in Colorado Springs with her and Tom Z? Interesting since there was speculation whether she left Tammy or not.

I did like Karen's program, choreo-wise but she's done so many tango style programs with a red rose in her hair, I've lost count!

Talinn looks like the T&T show with them in the KnC with Karen, Ting and Vincent.

Congrats to Ting on her good score despite the fall on the flip. Her Lutz Toe with the Rippon arms is one of best I've seen. She's musical and nice to watch, she just needs consistency and she'd be a contender at Nationals.
 
So Karen is still with Tammy but training in Colorado Springs with her and Tom Z? Interesting since there was speculation whether she left Tammy or not.

I did like Karen's program, choreo-wise but she's done so many tango style programs with a red rose in her hair, I've lost count!

Talinn looks like the T&T show with them in the KnC with Karen, Ting and Vincent.

Congrats to Ting on her good score despite the fall on the flip. Her Lutz Toe with the Rippon arms is one of best I've seen. She's musical and nice to watch, she just needs consistency and she'd be a contender at Nationals.

It is the Tom and Tammy show at Tallinn. In addition to those skaters, two of their other skaters are competing. Yi Chisty and Young You(juniors). All teenagers! It was a smart move for both Tom and Tammy to go.

This felt more like Flamenco style than another Tango. Karen loves those too. Strong dramatic music.
 
Karen is a growing teenager who has been out from injury or boot issues again. It wasn't awful and it wasn't good today either so she needs to adjust herself around the skate and her expectations for Nationals given her skate. She may shock in January.
 
Man it’s not worth arguing this point here. There’s a ton of overlap between touchy overly sympathetic Gracie fans and fans who can’t stand Ashley. I knew the hypocrisy would be strong the second Ashely gave any kind of hint of competing again. “But her skating skills!” Is not a compelling or worthwhile argument when comparing to a skater who just came out and only managed to score a 37. And had to withdraw from the long. Anyway.

I used to really want Ashley to come back but now I almost hope she doesn’t. She was dumped by her fed in favor of a skater who has had like three solid competitions her whole career and earns urs like candy being thrown at a parade. In fact her whole career it always seemed like the fed was always ready to push the next big thing over Ashley who was out there getting the best results. Most Fans can’t stand her and look for any little reason to discredit her achievements, and act like she has the talent of any random 9 year old at a rink in the middle of nowhere. Internationally, “women’s” skating keeps moving more and more towards completely becoming “teenage girl” skating. Why throw yourself back into such a mess? When you’ve already achieved so much, more then almost any fan thought possible. The only regret and thing that makes me wish she would compete, even just once more is that her swan song was so rudely taken from her by unfair and biased messy judging.

Everything you said is true. I'm truly ambivalent -- have approach/avoidance syndrome, as to whether I want Ashley to compete again. However, I know from being at competitive events how much audiences love Ashley, because she gives off this wonderful "came-to-skate" competitive vibe, as well as skating to give people their money's worth, performance wise. She's also very genuine.

I just watched Karen's Tallinn SP. If Ashley had skated and scored like Karen did today, you'd hear the hue and cry from here to Texas. Much less if she'd scored 37 at Rostelecom. But critics, please note: I don't want Karen or anyone else to receive the kind of treatment and disrespect that Ashley does.
 
Ting has become so expressive with her upper body in this short program, it really is exquisite. her arms, wrists, fingers, head/neck move like water through the entire thing.
 
Karen's SP is... shockingly bad. It was probably choreographed for her when she was in peak condition before the injuries so maybe she left a lot out?

I'm sort of mixed on the SP. She does an awful lot of programs with a Spanish feel. However, I understand that skaters have to be comfortable with the style to achieve high marks, so if she feels like it suits her then she should go for it. I think it just lacked her usual energy because she isn't in peak form yet.
 
Well considering all the factors involved I don't think Karen's performance was that bad (although I did see the score before I could watch it and did do a big double take). Obviously she wasn't in fighting shape and definitely has some big time catching up to do with the other ladies but if she really does want to make a run at nationals she's got to start somewhere. Today was the somewhere and considering how crazy nationals can be its not totally over yet :confused2:
 
I am a little shocked to see Karen's current form. Wonder if it has anything to do with the medications her doctors gave her for her injuries. On the other hand, I am happy to see her flexibility and skating skills are still there.
There were some good things. Her axel was beautiful, spins nice, skating skills were nice. I don't think she has time to factor into Nationals, but next year, who knows.
 
I'm sort of mixed on the SP. She does an awful lot of programs with a Spanish feel. However, I understand that skaters have to be comfortable with the style to achieve high marks, so if she feels like it suits her then she should go for it. I think it just lacked her usual energy because she isn't in peak form yet.

She gets the same criticism to me as Gracie - if you know you aren't in top shape to compete in terms of jumps/spins/step sequences and you still decide to compete, you should be attempting to sell the heck out of the program.
 
It's hard to sell a program if you're not sure of your feet under you due to injury (Karen) or not being competition ready (Gracie). Medvedeva wasn't selling much of anything at IDF either---her muscle memory isn't there yet because she's still learning and adapting to new technique.
 
Ashley Wagner is the American lady of the last decade.

She has no wotld titles or individual Olympic medals but has many grand prix medals and Us Championship medals. Since Kwan no one was in the mix for a decade almost inUs Ladies. Or should the top star go to Gracie for what she did in a shorter amt of time. Gracie was an athlete while Wagner was a world class performer. Gosh I miss them. What I’d Ashley’s legacy to be remembered as?
 
She has no wotld titles or individual Olympic medals but has many grand prix medals and Us Championship medals. Since Kwan no one was in the mix for a decade almost inUs Ladies. Or should the top star go to Gracie for what she did in a shorter amt of time. Gracie was an athlete while Wagner was a world class performer. Gosh I miss them. What I’d Ashley’s legacy to be remembered as?

Uh, she is a World Silver Medalist.
 
I don't think it was shockingly bad at all. Yes, she seems to be out of shape and even unpracticed, but that's pretty much to be expected at this point. Much better for her to have at least one competition under her belt before USNats so she can feel out the programs on a (relatively small) international stage, rather than debuting brand new programs in January.

I actually... really like the choreography? I think it suits her and the music is very fun. That being said, there's a lot of work to be done and it all depends really on the state of her injuries and whether or not she's even physically capable of practicing enough to get to where she realistically needs to be in order for USFSA to send her to something like 4CC or Worlds.

I'm sort of mixed on the SP. She does an awful lot of programs with a Spanish feel. However, I understand that skaters have to be comfortable with the style to achieve high marks, so if she feels like it suits her then she should go for it. I think it just lacked her usual energy because she isn't in peak form yet.

I think I need to watch it again. Perhaps it wasn't so bad, but it surely did make me miss her last SP. I do think she was selling it the best she could, she's very expressive, but the choreography or the music cuts weren't doing it for me. I'll give it another look in a little while.

Well considering all the factors involved I don't think Karen's performance was that bad (although I did see the score before I could watch it and did do a big double take). Obviously she wasn't in fighting shape and definitely has some big time catching up to do with the other ladies but if she really does want to make a run at nationals she's got to start somewhere. Today was the somewhere and considering how crazy nationals can be its not totally over yet :confused2:

Yeah, I'm not counting her out of nationals yet either. Her spins were good and her performance quality was there, even if I wasn't liking the program and she's not quite in preferable form yet. Her 2a and Lutz were good too, granted those are her best jumps. Anyway, she's only been back training since mid-October and when you put it in that context, I think she must've been working hard to get her skills back. Considering everything, she did fine.
 
Uh, she is a World Silver Medalist.
And Olympic team bronze medallist:) This might sound rather mean but by American standards it was kind of a Jennifer Robinson time of life in America. It wasn't exactly stellar skating that Ashley should have dominated but she did have to deal with Gracie Gold, Karen Chen, Polina Edmunds, Mariah Bell, Mirai Nagasu.
 
Ashley has overall had a really successful, long, amazing skating career. If I was a competitive skater, I’d honestly rather have her career than most Olympic Champions.
 
I think Ashley’s legacy is that for a span of maybe 6 years, she was a solid team member who consistently placed high enough at Worlds to help the U.S. ladies get/keep 3 spots, when the rest of the team kept changing. That, and the fact that she made the GPF final multiple times and usually was on the podium there.
 
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