2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

[chuckm]

As I recall, Irina threw her medal in the trash.

That wasn't in 2002---that was when she won bronze, in 2006, behind Arakawa and Cohen. Just like in 2002, she felt she had done enough to win, and she knew that was her last Olympics. She threw the medal into her locker and slammed it closed, and didn't want to go to the victory ceremony. She had to be coaxed to go out on the podium.

 

[Moxiejan]

Not quite the way it happened. She came back for Worlds 2003 out of competitive shape and finished 6th. THEN she went to college, after a summer on Stars on Ice (during which her father had a dispute with the management because Michelle Kwan was the headliner and Sarah, as OGM, should have been the headliner and been paid more than Kwan).

Wow, that’s a rather biased presentation of Sarah’s 2003 results; you make it sound as if she took a long break and then just sauntered on back “for Worlds” with little preparation. In actuality, she earned her spot on the U.S. team by placing second at 2003 Nationals (beating everyone but Michelle Kwan). And 6th at Worlds is hardly achievable by a skater who is out of competitive shape.

 

[lesnar001]

That wasn't in 2002---that was when she won bronze, in 2006, behind Arakawa and Cohen. Just like in 2002, she felt she had done enough to win, and she knew that was her last Olympics. She threw the medal into her locker and slammed it closed, and didn't want to go to the victory ceremony. She had to be coaxed to go out on the podium.

I like Irina a lot, but she did herself in --- 2002 and 2006.

Someone earlier had likened her 2002 Olympics to Michelle Kwan's 1998 --- but I don't see it that way at all.
Michelle certainly skated well enough in her LP to win in 1998. The only thing I remember is that she didn't skate with the freedom she had shown at Nationals.

Irina had a number of little "glitches" and "stumbes" in her LP --- the kind of things that would probably get some negative GOE's now.
She may not have fallen, but in my mind she certainly didn't skate "clean".

The same thing in 2006. And she had the advance knowledge that Shizuka Arakawa did no 3-3's and had only a 5 triple program.
But she didn't deliver the goods - just like in 2002.

But the fact remains that Irina had some noticeable problems with both LP's.

To me - there can always be a debate about Michelle in 1998 or Nancy in 1994 because they both skated well.
But Irina had control of her own destiny in 2002 and 2006, and faltered both times.

I didn't follow 2006 as closely as 2002, but I don't remember the podium incident.
If it indeed did happen, I am dissapointed in her behavior.

Makes Michelle Kwan's graceful behavior after 1998 and 2002 that much more admiralable.

 

[concorde]

Even crossovers are not easy!

My daughter passed her Senior MIF a couple of years back.
Just started with a new Choreographer and guess what she was told - she was not doing her crossovers the correct way. So after 10 years of skating, she is relearning how to do crossovers the correct way. Apparently when done correctly, she gets a deeper edge which means she gets added speed. The bad news is that those correctly done cross overs have now thrown off her jumps.

I am always amazed by the posters that make it seem that getting more rotation out of a jump is a simple fix. It has taken those skaters years of training to reach the point where they are and I am positive the skaters (and their coaches) are doing everything within their power to get clean jumps.

 

[lesnar001]

Wow, that’s a rather biased presentation of Sarah’s 2003 results; you make it sound as if she took a long break and then just sauntered on back “for Worlds” with little preparation. In actuality, she earned her spot on the U.S. team by placing second at 2003 Nationals (beating everyone but Michelle Kwan). And 6th at Worlds is hardly achievable by a skater who is out of competitive shape.

Well, Sarah was never the "annointed one" so she is not a "protected species" from the nastiness of the very vocal minority of nasty FS fans.
She was given the same treatment as Ashley Wagner (at least until Ashley outlasted all the "great artistic hopes" that were supposed to surpass her).

I just didn't realize that it still existed to this day.

That whole post actually tries to portary her as some shiftless "trust fund baby" meandering through life.

 

[lesnar001]

I don't remember hearing about that at all! I'm surprised, given how much attention Nancy Kerrigan got at the '94 games for her behavior. It also reminds me of the World Championships where Surya Bonaly had to be "pushed" on the podium and she took her medal off.

And Surya Bonaly is yet another example to me of "if you want to behave that way, at least make sure your skating that night backs it up"

Like Irina Slutskaya, Surya Bonaly had some problems with her jumps. I know Yuka Sato did too.
The result could have gone either way --- certainly not a robbery.
I can't even remember now, but was there another skater that did well in the LP that had a shot at the title?

Not to excuse any behaviors, but at least Nancy Kerrigan did skate clean a clean LP.

 

[Puchi]

I don't remember hearing about that at all! I'm surprised, given how much attention Nancy Kerrigan got at the '94 games for her behavior.

That's because it was not caught on tape, unlike Nancy Kerrigan's unfortunate comments in 1994. As it stands, the trash can (or locker) incident is just a backstage rumor.

 

[Sydney Rose]

My daughter passed her Senior MIF a couple of years back.
Just started with a new Choreographer and guess what she was told - she was not doing her crossovers the correct way. So after 10 years of skating, she is relearning how to do crossovers the correct way. Apparently when done correctly, she gets a deeper edge which means she gets added speed. The bad news is that those correctly done cross overs have now thrown off her jumps.

I am always amazed by the posters that make it seem that getting more rotation out of a jump is a simple fix. It has taken those skaters years of training to reach the point where they are and I am positive the skaters (and their coaches) are doing everything within their power to get clean jumps.

I'm so sorry your daughter (and you!) are having to go through this.

But I'm glad you posted about it because it touches on a topic that I've been thinking about a lot recently: How difficult--and how likely--is it for an older elite skater to successfully rework their technique?

Raf A has said repeatedly in interviews that there are limits to what he can do with older skaters because they were not taught correct technique--or at least what he considers correct technique--when they were children.

So how realistic are the expectations of fans when it comes to skaters like Mariah and Jason and Evgenia?

 

[LiamForeman]

That wasn't in 2002---that was when she won bronze, in 2006, behind Arakawa and Cohen. Just like in 2002, she felt she had done enough to win, and she knew that was her last Olympics. She threw the medal into her locker and slammed it closed, and didn't want to go to the victory ceremony. She had to be coaxed to go out on the podium.

I definitely remember reading about the trash incident in 2002. That was also the year when Slute picked at Sarah Hughes, calling her a gray mouse (lol) and loving her cheeseburgers. In 2006, she only had herself to blame. She fell on her money jump, her 3loop, for heaven's sake. She had a history of poor sportsmanship. I've never understood why winners are lauded for the good sportsmanship. Of course you're going to be happy and gracious to those little people that you just beat. The mark of good sportsmanship is how you behave when you don't win IMO. Michelle Kwan was/is a class act. She handled her losses with a lot of grace. I don't think I ever heard about any bad behavior from her, even when some competitions GPF01 where she could rightfully have felt she was shafted.

 

[chuckm]

Well, Sarah was never the "annointed one" so she is not a "protected species" from the nastiness of the very vocal minority of nasty FS fans.
She was given the same treatment as Ashley Wagner (at least until Ashley outlasted all the "great artistic hopes" that were supposed to surpass her).

I just didn't realize that it still existed to this day.

That whole post actually tries to portary her as some shiftless "trust fund baby" meandering through life.

Apparently, Sarah had a big enough bankroll from SOI that she didn't have to work right off the bat after college. So not a 'trust fund baby'. OTOH, her sister Emily finished college and got herself a really good job.

 

[LiamForeman]

Not quite the way it happened. She came back for Worlds 2003 out of competitive shape and finished 6th. THEN she went to college, after a summer on Stars on Ice (during which her father had a dispute with the management because Michelle Kwan was the headliner and Sarah, as OGM, should have been the headliner and been paid more than Kwan).

After two years in school, she took time off and toured in Stars on Ice as the headliner, but she was way out of shape and all she could do were a 2a and a 3s, and sometimes those became 1a and 2s. After she graduated from Yale, she didn't do much except a flurry of red carpet appearances. She said she was working on a book, but no book was ever published. She wound up eventually going to law school and recently graduated. Perhaps the next step is working for her father's law firm.

Role model? Hm.

I'm pretty sure that was the Tom Collins COI tour directly after 2002 where her father tried to strong-arm TC to have her perform last since she was the OC. TC was like "Umm, no." Did she even finish the tour that summer?

After a year or so at Yale she did sign up for SOI, and she was totally out of shape, even landing labored 1a's. Again I don't remember her finishing out that tour either. It was a sort of mutual split to let her go so she wouldn't embarrass herself or the tour any more.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

That's because it was not caught on tape, unlike Nancy Kerrigan's unfortunate comments in 1994. As it stands, the trash can (or locker) incident is just a backstage rumor.

Hehe...the frosty ice princess

https://youtu.be/9oozUaizleQ

 

[NAOTMAA]

Hehe...the frosty ice princess

https://youtu.be/9oozUaizleQ

Nancy was just not good at spotting where the camera was. I mean how many times can the camera accidentally catch you making some off color remark?

First waiting for the medal ceremony to begin and her remark about Oksana just going to cry her makeup off all over again so what difference does it make if she puts it on again (she didn't know the real reason for the delay) and then of course thr Mickey mouse incident.

People tired of the whole saga and those remarks made them unfairly turn again her.

 

[Mathman]

Even then, because of how the rules worked, she wouldn't have gotten gold if Michelle hadn't imploded.

That was the strange thing about factored ordinals. Michelle didn't have to beat Sarah in the free skate to win the gold medal, she just had to get second ahead of Irina. Sasha, on the other hand, could have won the whole shebang with an error-free skate.

 

[moonvine]

Even crossovers are not easy! I learned them as a child but don’t think I can do them anymore.

Figure skating is so much harder than it looks. One of the craziest things I’ve read on this forum is when someone said they had never skated before, but they could have performed better than Gracie at Rostelecom

I'm still waiting for the video on that.

 

[frida80]

Wow. I feel like I entered a time machine. Conversations really change after the GP is over with.

Next weekend we have Bradie, Mariah, and Megan. All at the same time as the GPF. I sense that I'm going to have two computers going on earlier in the season.

How is it that you have to be a professional scheduler to watch figure skating live? I envy football fans.

 

[DenissVFan]

I'm still waiting for the video on that.

We all are.

 

[Mathman]

It's a blood sport. If I had been irina in 2006 I would have painted Shizuka Arakawa's face on one side of my bronze medal and Sasha Cohen's on the other, threw it down and stomped on it, and then threw it in the trash. :yes: If I had been Nancy Kerrigan I would not only have called Mickey Mouse corny, I would have called Goofy goofy. If I had been Surya Bonaly I would have done a backflip right in the judges' faces (oh wait).

Role model? I got your role model right here!

 

[Tavi...]

I'm so sorry your daughter (and you!) are having to go through this.

But I'm glad you posted about it because it touches on a topic that I've been thinking about a lot recently: How difficult--and how likely--is it for an older elite skater to successfully rework their technique?

Raf A has said repeatedly in interviews that there are limits to what he can do with older skaters because they were not taught correct technique--or at least what he considers correct technique--when they were children.

So how realistic are the expectations of fans when it comes to skaters like Mariah and Jason and Evgenia?

I think the answer is that no one knows how realistic it is. Of the skaters you mentioned, Raf only coaches Mariah, and she does seem to have improved this year. I think it depends what needs to be fixed and how easy it is for the particular skater to make those changes. I believe that Ashley didn’t start with Raf until mid 2013, when she was around 22. Adam was 23. Both made some necessary technical changes but didn’t achieve “perfect” technique.

 

[concorde]

But I'm glad you posted about it because it touches on a topic that I've been thinking about a lot recently: How difficult--and how likely--is it for an older elite skater to successfully rework their technique?

I was told that the time to switches coaches for jump technique is between Juvenile and Intermediate. After that it, bad technique is extremely (almost impossible) tough to fix. With my daughter, we opted to switch midway through her first year in Juv. As soon as the season was over, the coach said all her jumps had to be reworked. In nine months, the coach was able to fix everything except the lutz. That was was a 11-year old that only had a her doubles (some under-rotated)when the new coach took over.

Raf A has said repeatedly in interviews that there are limits to what he can do with older skaters because they were not taught correct technique--or at least what he considers correct technique--when they were children.

So how realistic are the expectations of fans when it comes to skaters like Mariah and Jason and Evgenia?

Based on my own child's experiences, I am not optimistic for either Mariah and Jason. Both have been through a series of coaches in an attempt to fix their technique and the problems seem to persist. I think both may be able to get better technique but I doubt Jason will have a consistent quad and Mariah will have consistent triple-triples. Both are pretty skaters and are enjoyable to watch, but I think both are maxed out in their level of jump difficulty.

With Evgenia, I think it is too early to tell if Orser (and team) can work their magic. I think you have to give her at least a full year - I think we will know that answer by the end of next year's Grand Prix.