2018 Skate America Ladies Short Program

[yume]

This happened at US classic too, in the free skate. Maybe she rotates better than everyone.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Hmm, I just watched it. The 3F was definitely under and the 3T and 2A looked pretty close too. But PCS seemed a couple of points too low.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

On these very forums there were threads created regularly complaining about her jumps starting in 2015-16... Jumpamatron videos and gifs were dedicated to her jumps after every competition... Here’s one from me showing one of the more extreme offenses: https://imgflip.com/gif/20psz6

After a while, I (and some others who were vocal about this since the beginning) just ran out of things to say, I guess

I only did my jumpamatron videos of her per request and they were in response to a large group of people complaining that Satoko was underscored. TBH that gif you made is probably only a 2z-2t when you count the prerotation and under rotation so I’m assuming she got dinged for that one pretty good I just think if you’re going to prerotate the least you could do is get all the way around on the landing. Like give us something.

Here is a question I have....how does she not get an edge call on the Lutz? She cartwheels off the back of the blade. Is it just so weird that it’s unaddressable? Seems like at least a ! Is in order.

 

[SXTN]

I hope the ISU will wake up and penalize massive prerotation as well.

 

[yume]

I only did my jumpamatron videos of her per request and they were in response to a large group of people complaining that Satoko was underscored. TBH that gif you made is probably only a 2z-2t when you count the prerotation and under rotation so I’m assuming she got dinged for that one pretty good I just think if you’re going to prerotate the least you could do is get all the way around on the landing. Like give us something.

Here is a question I have....how does she not get an edge call on the Lutz? She cartwheels off the back of the blade. Is it just so weird that it’s unaddressable? Seems like at least a ! Is in order.

She got an ! at US Classic

 

[katymay]

I just finished watching the Japan broadcast which focused mostly on Samodurovna and last group.

Understandably, there is a lot of discourse on Satoko's jumps and the scoring thereof, but I just want to say, how about that musicality? How about those spins, that flow and movement of the upperbody to the music? Skating skills, emotion and patience with the music and lines that I could watch for days and days and days. That was the highlight of the competition so far for me.

I don't agree with the way Satoko jumps. -Neither does Satoko... that's why she's trying to change it. I didn't see much improvement this time around. Looked like the usual kind of jumps to me. JMO. So, yes, I'd ding her Flip for sure and get the GOES down to 0 on most of her jumps...
But I'd also give her the kind of PCS that would rival that of world champions and Olympic champions. Skaters should be scored on what they put on the ice.

Satoko Rant Over.

Kaori is so good! But this music is just not her. All her energy has no where to go in this muted music. The power in her skates seem to be fighting with the program. But I love to see her skate. And her smile at the end. Aaaah. Love her.

Samodurovna was a nice surprise. Young, but with potential. The program could use a little more fire and less repetitive movements of the hands, but I'm looking forward to her Free skate!

Bradie was a revelation at ACI. I still think her improvement continues apace. Perhaps the pressure of suddenly being a co-favorite at Skate America gave her nerves? She seemed to be more tentative after the first mistake. But good job keeping the mistakes to a minimum. Where she stands, she has a shot at the medals still.

Laurine is a favorite of mine, but I LOATHE 'Egyptian' styled programs. The end. Happy that she performed well though.

Satoko should have had 10's across the board on skating skills/PCS. Is it really possible for anyone to have better skating skills? She is magical. She floats. She holds one spellbound. And I am one who enjoys the big jumps...but Satoko...is in another league. Yes, her jumps are 'eeked' out. But they seem rotated (if small) to me.

 

[rikaquegira]

Also, Satoko's 3F was UR if not downgrade - and her 3Lz URed as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoVYluqiKzI&feature=youtu.be&t=104 (see in 0.25 slo-mo). Judging by strictness of the tech panel and Satoko being infamous for her UR - such mistakes couldn't be missed by chance. Well, considering the nationality of tech caller - it all makes sense now.

Please! Nationality has nothing to to with it! Satoko is famous for underotating her jumps and it is well known that they are rarely accurately called, most of the time they just ignore her URs or just give a few calls, it doesn’t matter the nationality. I cannot understand why!
And the judges always underscore her in PCS, so in the end I’d like to think it evens out.
But they should call her jumps, specially when it’s a “strict” panel. It is unfair to call only some skaters.
Since that always happens, I don’t even bother talking about it anymore, it’s like, common knowledge that such thing will occur.
How awful is ISU, huh? [emoji23]

 

[katymay]

I will never not complain/be confused about the lack of 9s in Satoko's PCS. She came in 4th at the Olympics and is the reigning world bronze medalist. The reputation judging should be on her side, even if the judges can't see her superior components.

Should have been 10's across the board. Or at least 9.5 and 9.75.

 

[mikeko666]

Should have been 10's across the board. Or at least 9.5 and 9.75.

No way. She certainly has good skating skills, but is nowhere near Patrick Chan's level.

 

[Joekaz]

People love to attack Satoko but what about the fact that Kaori was only 1 point behind her in PCS and 1 point ahead of Marin. That's crazy. And by the judging standard of TES for the rest of the girls Kaori"s 3T was UR. So it's not just Satoko. I agree with the placements in general except I think Marin should be in third. But the gap to the top 2 should be alot less.

 

[elbkup]

Satoko should have had 10's across the board on skating skills/PCS. Is it really possible for anyone to have better skating skills? She is magical. She floats. She holds one spellbound. And I am one who enjoys the big jumps...but Satoko...is in another league. Yes, her jumps are 'eeked' out. But they seem rotated (if small) to me.

This is the age old FS argument of artistry vs athleticism. . So many skaters produce magical, ethereal programs - Jason Brown is a case in point - but are called to task, and rightly so, for their shortcomings in TES. When I see Sotoko skate.. and I admire her exquisite interpretation, no question... I cannot fail to compare her to other skaters who deftly combine athletic consistency and breath-taking artistry and find her lackIng... Artistry deserves a perfect technician... it adds immeasurable gravitas to performance. That said, I do feel she produced the most spellbinding program here...

 

[Spirals for Miles]

People love to attack Satoko but what about the fact that Kaori was only 1 point behind her in PCS and 1 point ahead of Marin. That's crazy. And by the judging standard of TES for the rest of the girls Kaori"s 3T was UR. So it's not just Satoko. I agree with the placements in general except I think Marin should be in third. But the gap to the top 2 should be alot less.

Why should Marin be in third? she URed two jumps and two level threes (both on spins) compared to Sofia's one
If anything, it was Sofia that was underscored, she got a lower score here than she did in juniors, and that's not excusable, imo

 

[rikaquegira]

Judging for the TES had to be like "let's forget all the rules and praise only the skaters we love", otherwise i've soo many questions about Satoko TES.

At some point today i'll post a thread about dissecting and analyzing Satoko Miyahara's jumps (i was planning to do yesterday but then my internet stopped working), because this has been a recurring theme on selected events, and i'm shocked there are so many youtube videos and discussions on the internet about other skaters jumps, but barely any buzz about Satoko, which is one of the most questionable jumper maybe ever (considering she is a top contender), you have everything here:

- wrong edge (flip)
- prerotations
- underrotations
- blade assist (lutz)
- awkward free leg position on the landing (lutz)

Even if you give a pass to all of this, still i can't understand the GOE when the first bullet for those is "very good height and very good distance" and Satoko has neither of those, or "very good body position" when Satoko on the 3F is like \, not straight at all, or again, the ugly landing position on the lutz.

If we want to be precise, according to the rules when the prerotation is that clear (as it is on the flip) should be called as cheated take-off and that's a downgrade.

That plus the outside edge, technically that should have been a 3Fe <<.

I think there isn’t much “buzz” about Satoko’s bad jumping because

1) it is so blatantly obvious, everyone knows it, Satoko knows it and talks openly about it and works hard to try and change that. To the point that if you make an analysis my only reaction will be “... ok.”
2) yes, her issues are 99% of the time ignored by the panel(there’s certainly some politicking going on there). But, let’s think here how many flutzes go uncalled? How many URs? How lenient panels tend to be? Or, worse, how selective panels tend to be? It’s not just about Satoko. In the Olympics for instance, had they called every error from Satoko, I would’ve liked to see other obvious and well known errors being called too, otherwise wouldn’t it have been unfair to Satoko? Call everything or call nothing. Skate America of course is doing dirty to some skaters by being so strict to some and not so strict with Satoko.
3) Let’s talk about PCS. We all know Satoko deserves the highest marks, enough to challenge the marks of, let’s say, the Olympic Champion. Does that ever happen? Maybe it could finally happen this season but so far, not happening. I said this before, her jumps should be getting dinged but the rest of her skating should be getting rewarded the way it deserves.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Why should Marin be in third? she URed two jumps and two level threes (both on spins) compared to Sofia's one
If anything, it was Sofia that was underscored, she got a lower score here than she did in juniors, and that's not excusable, imo

PCS. Marin’s PCS should’ve been one that rivaled that of Kaori’s or Satoko’s. But I feel like Sofia was a slight but underscored too.

 

[rikaquegira]

PCS. Marin’s PCS should’ve been one that rivaled that of Kaori’s or Satoko’s. But I feel like Sofia was a slight but underscored too.

Probably because she was the first skater of the first group. [emoji24]

 

[yoloaxel]

Why should Marin be in third? she URed two jumps and two level threes (both on spins) compared to Sofia's one
If anything, it was Sofia that was underscored, she got a lower score here than she did in juniors, and that's not excusable, imo

I agree on Marin being 4th but Sofia had a clear UR on her -3T which wasn't called, so her score should not be higher than what she got imo.

 

[Joekaz]

Why should Marin be in third? she URed two jumps and two level threes (both on spins) compared to Sofia's one
If anything, it was Sofia that was underscored, she got a lower score here than she did in juniors, and that's not excusable, imo

Ok. I can go along with that. But my main point is there is way too big a gap to the top 2. Its seems like the judging was strict for everyone but them. And no way should Kaori have PCS within a point of Satoko and a point ahead of Marin. She should be at least a point behind Marin.

 

[Jeanie19]

Megan really impressed me tonight, especially her speed at that giant 3T-3T. She really proved that she deserved that TBD spot.

And I picked her for sixth place.

 

[readernick]

Please! Nationality has nothing to to with it! Satoko is famous for underotating her jumps and it is well known that they are rarely accurately called, most of the time they just ignore her URs or just give a few calls, it doesn’t matter the nationality. I cannot understand why!
And the judges always underscore her in PCS, so in the end I’d like to think it evens out.
But they should call her jumps, specially when it’s a “strict” panel. It is unfair to call only some skaters.
Since that always happens, I don’t even bother talking about it anymore, it’s like, common knowledge that such thing will occur.
How awful is ISU, huh? [emoji23]

I agree with you 100% and I really don't understand why this is happening. Satoko has obvious strengths in her elements. Her step sequences and spins deserve high GOE and get them. And, that is the only part of the judging that I agree with. Satoko's combo was better than usual last night. But, usually she clealy under-rotates at least her combo. Why don't the judges just give her the 9.5, 9.75's she deserves in PCS and then ding her for the URs. The scores would be the same and it would be more honest scoring. It is so strange.

Ladies PCS, in general, is a mess. It is really just a mark that rewards the technical consistent, and the successful. In a fair world, Marin Honda would have low technical marks and the highest PCS marks. Alina would have sky high TES and middling PCS. Trusova would dominate the ladies field in TES but Aliona would dominate in PCS. But, this does not happen. I really firmly believe that different panels should judge the TES and PCS. Judges really don't have enough time to fairly judge the skaters in the time they are given.

 

[yume]

Ok. I can go along with that. But my main point is there is way too big a gap to the top 2. Its seems like the judging was strict for everyone but them. And no way should Kaori have PCS within a point of Satoko and a point ahead of Marin. She should be at least a point behind Marin.

Skate America loves Kaori. Last year her PCS jumped by almost 5 points in FS. And maybe being an olympic skater helps too.