2019-20 Canadian Figure Skating

[4everchan]

MTM 2.0's strategy has always been to be perfect...

what was lacking before was the twist and confidence in lifts which seems MUCH improved before... they have always had strong jumps and throws.

What could set them back is their low BV because they do not attempt the hardest elements but the ISU made sure they wanted quality over difficulty in pairs... and that's always been MTM2.0's thing so I say why not GPF for them???

 

[Osmond4gold]

I absolutely think they can snag two silvers!

However it means being absolutely perfect across four programs while relying on others not being.

If the Kneirms for once land their jumps I’m sure they will over take MT/M. Also, who knows what Luibov and Charlie will put out. I guess we will know more after Finlandia.

Even if they ever land their jumps, I don't believe the Kneirms are even close to the quality of MT/M, imo.

 

[nocturnalis]

Even if they ever land their jumps, I don't believe the Kneirms are even close to the quality of MT/M, imo.

I view them as D/R and S/H last season. While S/H had the higher quality elements, they often lost to D/R because of mistakes. Now S-K/K are definitely not S/H, but they should be beating M-T/M2 -quite easily but don't because they are always making silly mistakes.

 

[Skater Boy]

MTM / M need some big tricks maybe a throw quad sal and some amazing sbs jumps and then get a program then can sell. They are not the most gifted team. The Knerims, Sui and Han even the struggling or injured Russian teams and up and coming Chinese, James and Cipres and the Italians are more talented. Heart and dedication help a lot.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I'm going to kindly disagree with that.

 

[Osmond4gold]

Wow that's a high bar, nocturnalis. With respect, I just don't see them as a top 5 team, even if clean. They would have been lucky to be on a podium at Canadian Nationals, the past Olympic quad, and as International results have shown, they were bested by our 4th placed team at Worlds, a few years back.

That's a huge leap of faith for a team who has shown very little in international success in recent years.

 

[rain]

I absolutely think they can snag two silvers!

However it means being absolutely perfect across four programs while relying on others not being.

If the Kneirms for once land their jumps I’m sure they will over take MT/M. Also, who knows what Luibov and Charlie will put out. I guess we will know more after Finlandia.

While I am a huge fan of both Lubov and Charlie separately, and excited by the potential of the new team, I do not expect them to be ready for prime time this year. I think we may not even see a full complement of top level elements this season.

 

[Colonel Green]

MTM / M need some big tricks maybe a throw quad sal and some amazing sbs jumps and then get a program then can sell.

The changes to the scoring system post-2018 have made the throw and twist quads not especially significant, which is why you don't see anybody doing them anymore.

In one of their recent interviews KMT said she'd like to upgrade to a throw Lutz or flip at some point, but that there wasn't any time to do that this summer as they were focused on other things (especially improving their twist, which they did).

While it would be good to upgrade, their key to success is largely to be doing what they did at Nebelhorn and skate cleanly. They actually have some of the stronger SBS jumps among the top pairs in terms of reliability, and that does count for something. One of their best moments as a team was right after one of their worst, at 2016 Nationals, after that disaster twist attempt -- they got up and then skated right down to the other end of the rink for the SBS jumps, and I remember thinking that they didn't have a prayer of landing those after such a bad mistake on the twist, but they did.

Even if they ever land their jumps, I don't believe the Kneirms are even close to the quality of MT/M, imo.

The Knierims' elements, when executed properly, score higher than KMT/Marinaro's do. If you look at the Nebelhorn results, for instance, in the short program the Knierims actually won the TES despite the SBS jump fall. In the free skate, the Knierims' non-SBS elements were worth 61.11 TES, whereas MT/M's non-SBS elements were 57.50; the biggest difference being in the twist. The TES difference-maker was that MT/M's jumps were worth 12.21 points, while the Knierims' popped combination and hand-down second jump were worth only 4.93. MT/M won the PCS in both programs too, of course, given that all of the Knierims' jumps in both programs were flawed and that impacts performance quality. But if the Knierims skated without mistakes on the jumps, the numbers strongly indicate that they would win. Which is that team's particular challenge, since the jumps so regularly go awry.

As far as MT/M's assignments, at SCI one would assume that Tarasova/Morozov will win (as long as the US Classic was just an altitude fluke). MT/M can certainly come second there, though Boikova/Kozlovskii will be a real fight, as would the Knierims if they got it together.

NHK would at one point have been the tougher assignment, but with James/Cipres' withdrawal the pressure is lessened. Sui/Han, of course, favourites for gold. Della Monica/Guarise, the Knierims (again), and the newly-senior Mishina/Galliamov are all worthy opponents, but the Italians have had difficulties over the summer so as yet it's unclear what shape they're going to be in; the Knierims' issues have already been gone over.

 

[Scout]

Heart and dedication help a lot.

The implication that MTM2 don't have heart and dedication is

 

[rain]

The Knierims' elements, when executed properly, score higher than KMT/Marinaro's do. If you look at the Nebelhorn results, for instance, in the short program the Knierims actually won the TES despite the SBS jump fall. In the free skate, the Knierims' non-SBS elements were worth 61.11 TES, whereas MT/M's non-SBS elements were 57.50; the biggest difference being in the twist. The TES difference-maker was that MT/M's jumps were worth 12.21 points, while the Knierims' popped combination and hand-down second jump were worth only 4.93. MT/M won the PCS in both programs too, of course, given that all of the Knierims' jumps in both programs were flawed and that impacts performance quality. But if the Knierims skated without mistakes on the jumps, the numbers strongly indicate that they would win. Which is that team's particular challenge, since the jumps so regularly go awry.

Interestingly, MT/M's base values are fine, what they need to work on are the GOEs. Part of that is reputation (whether it should be or not). I think if they can have a season of skating relatively cleanly, they may start to see some of those GOEs go up. And it doesn't hurt that I think they have the best material they've ever had this year. The long, in particular, is special. The crowd at Nebelhorn really reacted to it, and that, too, over the course of a season can make a difference.

 

[Colonel Green]

Interestingly, MT/M's base values are fine, what they need to work on are the GOEs. Part of that is reputation (whether it should be or not). I think if they can have a season of skating relatively cleanly, they may start to see some of those GOEs go up. And it doesn't hurt that I think they have the best material they've ever had this year. The long, in particular, is special. The crowd at Nebelhorn really reacted to it, and that, too, over the course of a season can make a difference.

I agree that they're very good programs, some of their best (my favourite free skate of theirs is still "Un Ange Passe"). They can get a few more cumulative points out of their lifts, which have been a weakness in the past, and more consistent performances would help there. Realistically, they're not going to come anywhere near the Knierims' twist GOE; Justine & Mark have the only twist to rival theirs among the North American teams.

 

[rain]

I agree that they're very good programs, some of their best (my favourite free skate of theirs is still "Un Ange Passe"). They can get a few more cumulative points out of their lifts, which have been a weakness in the past, and more consistent performances would help there. Realistically, they're not going to come anywhere near the Knierims' twist GOE; Justine & Mark have the only twist to rival theirs among the North American teams.

Their twist has improved enormously this year, but you are right, it is never going to be anywhere near the Knierims' (I think their twist is probably their best element). But I do think they can get some more points out of the throws (Kirsten has some of the best landings in the world), death spiral, side by side jumps, etc. Many more points on the lifts will really come from improving Michael's posture/security, since Kirsten's positions are beautiful, and I'm not sure they can do that during the course of the season (though I do think they looked better than last year). I think the Knierims' jumps, though, are a real weakness that also can't be underestimated.

 

[4everchan]

all the knierims have for them is a hot twist... the saying for the short program goes for the twist... you cannot win an event just with the twist... but you can certainly lose it because of it...

so if MTM do get high lvels and GOE like they did at Nebelhorn with their twist, it will help them tremendously... it used to set them backwards at lot in the SP

 

[siberia82]

Here's a wonderful 2019 ACI Team Canada video montage which was filmed and edited by On Ice Perspectives (I didn't know about its existence before because the link is private): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gEDkRoY3C8

 

[chuckm]

all the knierims have for them is a hot twist... the saying for the short program goes for the twist... you cannot win an event just with the twist... but you can certainly lose it because of it...

If you look at the Nebelhorn protocol, the twist is not all the Knierims have going for them. They also had superior lifts and a higher level and GOE on their spin.

 

[siberia82]

TSN uploaded a montage video of the National Team filming their promos at the High Performance Camp: https://twitter.com/SkateTSN/status/1182330480600997889


ETA: The National Team profile pics have been updated (with the exceptions of Stephen and Nic, since they were not present at the HPC): https://skatecanada.ca/national-team/

 

[Colonel Green]

ETA: The National Team profile pics have been updated (with the exceptions of Stephen and Nic, since they were not present at the HPC): https://skatecanada.ca/national-team/

Thankfully the team jackets are better this year.

 

[siberia82]

Thankfully the team jackets are better this year.

Agreed; I think the new jackets are snazzy : https://www.instagram.com/p/B2CXA8-FBqm/

 

[Skater Boy]

The implication that MTM2 don't have heart and dedication is

oh contraire. you misunderstood

 

[Scout]

oh contraire. you misunderstood

happy to hear that i misunderstood.