2019-20 Canadian Figure Skating

[Ic3Rabbit]

Thanks to everyone who pointed out that Nam is not necessarily annoyed with me personally (and I certainly hope that is the case, but of course I'll never know for sure). It kinda sucks that I'm now cut off from him on social media after 3 years, but it is what it is.



I can only discuss my very limited experience in this area, but specifically in the case of Joseph and Matthew, I had asked them in person if I could connect with them online, and they agreed. As for Nam and Nic, I happened to notice that they had numerous followers, so I took a chance and hoped they would let me join their virtual social circle even though I had never met them. That happened to work (and I ended up meeting them later), but I never dared to do that again.

I know I'm a little late to the conversation here, but I would not take it personally. He's not vindictive like that.

 

[TontoK]

I can see massive score inflation for Moore-Towers / Marinaro and Gilles / Poirier at Worlds, they are the only medal hopes that Canada has now.

Realistically, they were the only medal hopes before now.

Who else did you have in mind?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

How is Émy Carignan who had this horrible fall in warm ups? Competing with a broken wrist and torn kneecap, only later to find out she had broken teeth, bruised face and ribs and a concussion?

What are the protocols in case? Did nobody act upon them?

And no media outrage over underage skaters competing dangerous elements? Makes one look differently at the discussion over 'ban the quads' and 'raise the age limit' for female Russian skaters ...

Only found this out from https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/figureice/2702440.html and the Russian fora where it was said all hell would break loose in 'Western media' if it happened to a Russian girl ....

People are allowed to condemn two different things. Yes, it was irresponsible to let Emy compete the SP, but as mentioned they probably found the true extent of her injuries later and made a game time decision to compete. I guess in terms of banning quads and raising the age limit, both deal with trying to avoid potential injury. But those are two completely different scenarios: choosing to skate after an injury in warmup vs. choosing to train elements that could lead to long-term injuries/growth issues/etc.

 

[Edwin]

People are allowed to condemn two different things. Yes, it was irresponsible to let Emy compete the SP, but as mentioned they probably found the true extent of her injuries later and made a game time decision to compete. I guess in terms of banning quads and raising the age limit, both deal with trying to avoid potential injury. But those are two completely different scenarios: choosing to skate after an injury in warmup vs. choosing to train elements that could lead to long-term injuries/growth issues/etc.

I think after this kind of falls, thorough medical checkup should be compulsory performed. One cannot trust the judgement of a child athlete still on adrenaline or her coaches (who most likely have no medical expertise).

ISU should review its policy, for this is no normal fall from single skater height, but from like 2.5 meters or more.

 

[Supernovaimplosion]

I think after this kind of falls, thorough medical checkup should be compulsory performed. One cannot trust the judgement of a child athlete still on adrenaline or her coaches (who most likely have no medical expertise).

ISU should review its policy, for this is no normal fall from single skater height, but from like 2.5 meters or more.

Ted said on twitter she was medically cleared to compete. Which leads me to question the medical staff more than anything. Like what?
Is it that hard to find broken bones without an x ray? Maybe there should be policy for falls like this, from such a height, that x-rays should be mandatory.
The ISU and Skate Canada should review their policy, definitely. Especially after Ashley Cain's fall last season

 

[madraykin]

Ted said on twitter she was medically cleared to compete. Which leads me to question the medical staff more than anything. Like what?
Is it that hard to find broken bones without an x ray? Maybe there should be policy for falls like this, from such a height, that x-rays should be mandatory.

Yes, if there's no bone displacement it can be hard to spot a break without an x-ray - it can even be difficult with an x-ray if it's only a hairline fracture. I once had to have two rounds of x-rays because they couldn't decide if there was a fracture or not (foot/ankle though so lots of small bones to look at in my deformed former dancers feet).

There also probably wouldn't have been any swelling yet if she was examined immediately, and I imagine everything hurt so there's no guidance there (or she insisted she was fine, which should have been ignored in a 13 year old).

 

[siberia82]

I've copied and pasted my latest post on the Canadian Nationals thread.


I'm a little late with my thoughts on a few other Senior Men outside of the Top 3, but hopefully some of you will still like to read it.

My love for Joseph Phan's skating has grown by leaps and bounds. Sure, there were a few mistakes in the LP, but his mother and I are very proud of him for including a 4S for the first time in a competitive program. :yes: I had a strong feeling at the Quebec Summer Championships that he would become my second-favourite skater sometime this season, and his performances at Nationals have officially cemented his new position in my fandom heart (so I guess my new nickname for him should be "Emperor-in-waiting" ). I hope Junior Worlds will be the peak of his season; I suspect it will be the last time he'll compete as a junior, and I would like for that chapter of his career to end on a high note.

In their Inside Edge videos, Ted Barton, Kaetlyn Osmond and Elladj Baldé usually focus on the Top 3 in each segment, but they included Joseph in their discussion (this is their talk about his SP https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7qv3e1 and their talk about his LP https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7qv3wy ) because they see his great potential, just as I do. I told Jo (or more like his mother told him on my behalf) that I firmly believe he'll be in the mix for a podium finish at Nationals as early as next year, and it's nice to learn that Ted, Kaetlyn and Elladj also agree. :agree:

Nicolas Nadeau was unfortunately a hot mess (emphasis on "hot" ). He opened with a stellar 3A+3T in the LP , but then gradually fell apart. I have no idea what his goals are, so I don't know if it's enough for him to be in the Top 5 at Nationals. If he wants more than that, though, then I'm worried because he can no longer perform a 3Lz due to lingering issues with an old injury, and he hasn't landed a clean quad in years. I will never give up on him as long as he wants to continue competing in singles, but if I'm being completely honest with myself, the bright future I had once envisioned for him 3 years ago is growing dimmer. I told Nic the first time I met him that he was the King of my fandom heart, and while that remains true, the current reality is that he has stagnated whereas two "Emperors" have now surpassed him. His season is over now, so he'll probably do some soul-searching (maybe he should consider switching to pairs?), and hopefully he'll remain injury-free, whatever it is he decides to do.

I'm so happy for Matthew Markell, who achieved career-best scores in the LP and total, and he attained his goal of finishing in the Top 10. :hap85: (The rest of this paragraph was copied and pasted from a thread about him.) It's interesting to note that his LP PCS was only 1.76 points behind Phan's (and 8.46 points ahead of Orzel's); that's surprisingly high considering that Matt has never competed on the JGP circuit or Junior Worlds (plus he has never competed as a senior internationally), whereas Joseph and Conrad are far more accomplished in comparison. If only Matt could master a 3A and a quad---in a perfect world, he'd be part of the Canadian men's discussion. But he currently doesn't have those big jumps, and considering that he'll be 20 years old in March, I'm concerned that he may not get them. But I'll always hope, of course.


In case anyone was interested, here are the Inside Edge discussions on Roman's SP https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7qv1qp and LP https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7qv2ky .

 

[Supernovaimplosion]

Yes, if there's no bone displacement it can be hard to spot a break without an x-ray - it can even be difficult with an x-ray if it's only a hairline fracture. I once had to have two rounds of x-rays because they couldn't decide if there was a fracture or not (foot/ankle though so lots of small bones to look at in my deformed former dancers feet).

There also probably wouldn't have been any swelling yet if she was examined immediately, and I imagine everything hurt so there's no guidance there (or she insisted she was fine, which should have been ignored in a 13 year old).

I see, thanks for the info! Maybe it should be more of a precautionary thing- ie required x-rays for some falls and situations. I dont know, better safe than sorry? It's a difficult situation.

 

[mrrice]

Oh Canadians...…. For the second time in as many days, you have crowned a Champion that I know nothing about. can someone give me a quick run down on Emily. Thank you.

 

[Colonel Green]

Oh Canadians...…. For the second time in as many days, you have crowned a Champion that I know nothing about. can someone give me a quick run down on Emily. Thank you.

She's been on the JGP the past four seasons; her best result was sixth at Lake Placid earlier this season (which was at the time the best JGP placement for a Canadian lady since 2016). She was second in juniors in 2017, never particularly highly-ranked in seniors domestically until this year.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

She's been on the JGP the past four seasons; her best result was sixth at Lake Placid earlier this season (which was at the time the best JGP placement for a Canadian lady since 2016). She was second in juniors in 2017, never particularly highly-ranked in seniors domestically until this year.

She also has the highest score by a Canadian lady internationally this season from CS Warsaw Cup, I believe.

 

[Ryan O]

Nicolas Nadeau was unfortunately a hot mess (emphasis on "hot" ). He opened with a stellar 3A+3T in the LP , but then gradually fell apart. I have no idea what his goals are, so I don't know if it's enough for him to be in the Top 5 at Nationals. If he wants more than that, though, then I'm worried because he can no longer perform a 3Lz due to lingering issues with an old injury, and he hasn't landed a clean quad in years. I will never give up on him as long as he wants to continue competing in singles, but if I'm being completely honest with myself, the bright future I had once envisioned for him 3 years ago is growing dimmer. I told Nic the first time I met him that he was the King of my fandom heart, and while that remains true, the current reality is that he has stagnated whereas two "Emperors" have now surpassed him. His season is over now, so he'll probably do some soul-searching (maybe he should consider switching to pairs?), and hopefully he'll remain injury-free, whatever it is he decides to do.

Yeah, I like Nicolas Nadeau, too, but it's hard to see how he can advance much farther in Men's skating unless something different happens.

He's very charismatic and a good performer, but he is built more like a male Pairs skater (tall & muscular) than a Single skater. I think it affects his jumps. That tall height & broad upper body might be good if he went into Pairs.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Yeah, I like Nicolas Nadeau, too, but it's hard to see how he can advance much farther in Men's skating unless something different happens.

He's very charismatic and a good performer, but he is built more like a male Pairs skater (tall & muscular) than a Single skater. I think it affects his jumps. That tall height & broad upper body might be good if he went into Pairs.

Nic is fine as a singles skater. He's built similar to former US Mens Champion, Ryan Bradley. (And yes I know that Ryan B was formerly a pairs skater), I still wouldn't suggest it for Nadeau.

Nic did well this year at Nationals, besides the flubs in the LP. He's on a decent path to podium hopefully next season.

 

[Skater Boy]

Realistically, they were the only medal hopes before now.

Who else did you have in mind?

Well I guess if Shoma had resurged or re emerged it was possible Keegan Messing looking could under the right circumstances sneak in for a bronze. If,a big if he skated two clean programs and others made mistakes - not impossible but I think the recovery so to speak of Shoma ended. We see Kevini s vulnerable. And he is capable of beating Jason Brown, Vincent Zhou who hasn't competed this season yet; the ver inconsistent Russians, Brezina, Rizzo, Yan and Boyang are all beatable. Of course Keegan might not make worlds.

 

[Skater Boy]

Nic is fine as a singles skater. He's built similar to former US Mens Champion, Ryan Bradley. (And yes I know that Ryan B was formerly a pairs skater), I still wouldn't suggest it for Nadeau.

Nic did well this year at Nationals, besides the flubs in the LP. He's on a decent path to podium hopefully next season.

It appears from the choice of jumps for the short program and watching him ipractice he may have had some injury or something that affected some jumps. That's what a coach said to me. So if this is true and he can be healthy he could moe up. He has a lot of charisma. He could be charming Candelero/Fernandez type?

 

[Skater Boy]

Oh Canadians...…. For the second time in as many days, you have crowned a Champion that I know nothing about. can someone give me a quick run down on Emily. Thank you.

Yes, things are a little rough for Canada now. It's great though if you want a win a medal there are opportunities galore.

 

[Skater Boy]

I agree. Roman's quality and artistry are not inferior to Kevin imo, and if I remember correctly Kevin made a mistake at the GPF on one jump. I think Roman should just focus on the content he has and keep polishing it, he does have a 4T as well, it is still inconsistent though. If Kevin skates like he did in the GPF he will likely get a higher score than Roman because he has more international recognition and a GPF medal which will surely help him., but I think Roman has it in him to finish in the top 10 at Worlds

But Kevin, well with the exception of his Euro sp has beenmore consistent; has more medals and has a reputation to help him. Roman doesn't; it isn't even clear ifhe is the top Canadian.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

It appears from the choice of jumps for the short program and watching him ipractice he may have had some injury or something that affected some jumps. That's what a coach said to me. So if this is true and he can be healthy he could moe up. He has a lot of charisma. He could be charming Candelero/Fernandez type?

IIRC: He did early in the season.

 

[Colonel Green]

Thoughts on the national team for next season? The somewhat amorphous criteria basically just let Skate Canada do whatever they want, but the obvious starting point is the national podiums are all guaranteed membership. The men, pairs and dance podiums are already all national team members, so that's nine people/pairs retaining membership on the existing team. The ladies' podium is 100% new people, which will pose its own questions.

Men
Current: Nam, Stephen, Keegan, Roman, Nic, Conrad
- 2020 podium: Roman, Nam, Keegan
- The second criterion is that people who are assigned to Grand Prix events are members; obviously way too early to know what's going on there.
- Stephen's status is a question mark in a number of ways. Normally juniors aren't even on the national team, he's here because he was entitled to it as national silver medalist. If he decides to move up to senior internationally next year, he'd of course be on the national team since they'd for sure give him Grand Prix assignments. If he doesn't, do/can they put him on the national team?
- Joseph I think has to move up, and was fourth at nationals. We don't really know what the financial allowance for this whole program is, but in any case, but I think he'd have to weighed for the national team against people like Nic and Conrad.

Ladies
Current: Gabrielle, Aurora, Veronik
- 2020 podium: Emily, Alison, Madeline
- The team this year was somewhat smaller than it otherwise might have been since Alaine declined to take her automatic place. We've got a baseline of three here. The big question is how many ladies does Skate Canada want to add beyond that?
- I'd expect them to keep Gabrielle and Aurora. Veronik, much as I like her and enjoy having her around, I don't see a strong argument for keeping her on the team at present.
- Alicia is a further question mark. She finished just off the podium and isn't thus required, but she's had a fair amount of international assignments at this point (by far the most of any Canadian senior lady who isn't on the team) and may yet prove herself at the remainder of the year's ISU competitions.
- I feel like the Grand Prix assignment criterion, incidentally, will become particularly heated as we head into the summer, because it seems there's a pretty strong likelihood that the only ladies' spots we'll have on the Grand Prix are the three host spots at SCI (though Skate Canada was somehow able to wangle Veronik that SkAm spot, so maybe not?).

Pairs
Current: KMT & Michael, Evelyn & Trennt, Camille & Drew, Liubov & Charlie
2020 podium: KMT & Michael, Evelyn & Trennt, Liubov & Charlie
- Do they keep Camille & Drew on the team? If they still qualify for a Grand Prix, then they'd automatically be on it, of course.
- I feel like they should add Justine & Mark at this point, between their Challenger medal and the fact that some extra funding would probably be helpful in, say, ironing out their throws. And it's good long-term to have more senior pairs who aren't about to retire after Beijing on the team.

Ice dance
Current: Piper & Paul, Laurence & Nikolaj, Haley & Nikolas, Carolane & Shane, Marjorie & Zach
2020 podium: Piper & Paul, Marjorie & Zach, Carolane & Shane
- Laurence & Nikolaj obviously will be on there again. There aren't any projected new seniors for next season or lower-tier seniors who at this point feel like warranted additions to the team, so the only real question that I see here is whether Skate Canada wants to fund Haley & Nikolas for another year.

 

[siberia82]

IIRC: He did early in the season.

Nic withdrew from the Quebec Summer Championships (to my huge disappointment), so he ended up not competing for 3 months in between the Minto Summer Skate and SCI.

And I'd compare Roman's quality and style of skating to Jeremy Abbott over Chan or Jeffrey, I've said this for years now.

Although I frequently emphasize Roman's "Buttle-ness" (and I suspect Roman sees himself as taking after his idol), you might be pleased to know that my very first post in his Fan Fest includes a comparison to Abbott.

In my eyes at least, his style is a cross between Jeff Buttle's and Jeremy Abbott's, which is an irresistible combination.