2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Baron Vladimir]

Then again, the whole concept of time and ease of reviews will pop up. The tech panel probably only triage and review those that look odd in real time or those ultra big elements e.g. quads or...

I know the time and ease of reviews is a problem. But then, tech panel is doing a review of 1 to 5 elements per program. It could be done that every person in the tech panel can review some of the elements individually, instead all 3 of them are looking at the same reviews. So for example, one can review all single jumps, second all the combos and third spins and steps.

 

[vesperalvioletta]

Thanks. Other than Anna it doesn't sound like the silver or bronze medalist at China did anything special so it's disappointing that Sofia did not contend for medal there. I wonder if SS can learn a quad or triple axel. She may very well be small enough to do so. Maybe.

I've always liked Sofia - she's a lot of fun to watch on the ice - but I don't see a 3A or a quad in her future. Her jumps have always been tiny, even before she began having puberty related difficulties. In fact, I think in one of those jump studies that come out of Russia every now and then, some of her jumps were measured as having even less height than Satoko's.

 

[Jontor]

Any info yet who is competeting at Cup of Russia Stage 4??

 

[Scott512]

I've always liked Sofia - she's a lot of fun to watch on the ice - but I don't see a 3A or a quad in her future. Her jumps have always been tiny, even before she began having puberty related difficulties. In fact, I think in one of those jump studies that come out of Russia every now and then, some of her jumps were measured as having even less height than Satoko's.

You're probably right. Thank you. No quads are triple axles for SS. But what about nugumanova or Gubanova. Can either one of them learn a triple axel or a quad and does their new coach teach that? Certainly Liza N is small enough and young enough to learn triple axel or quads one would think.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Any info yet who is competeting at Cup of Russia Stage 4??

https://fsrussia.ru/results/1920/4etap/index.htm

 

[nussnacker]

Any info yet who is competeting at Cup of Russia Stage 4??

Ladies group 1: Tumanova, Shulskaya, Mitina, Babushkina, Belyaikova, Borisova, Sheveleva
Group2: Mitina, Konovaltseva, Daineko, Frolova, Vasilieva, Talalaikina.

 

[pearly]

If element has multiple mistakes it can get -5 according to the recommendations, so with Bradie jump called as UR in the system, judges may easily go to -5 in GOE with it, cause it already had bad timing (which is very important for a combo), bad take off and the landing. If a skater planned a triple and did a double, it is judged as a jump with a mistake basically. And double jumps as single elements are rarely looking that good to get high GOE, because they don't have height and distance as triple jumps for example (unless its a double with delayed rotation).

To be even clearer: if a skater ATTEMPTED a triple and did (popped into) a double.
I wish more people would read the handbook or at least try and understand when someone clarifies it here! I truly don't get the point in spending hours and hours discussing what you believe rather than spending some time reading the rules first.

 

[Mathman]

Just hope some new fangled rotation technology device comes along soon for judges, callers and spectators to be able to objectively see the actual degree of revolutions performed in the air. It will create new avenues for fans to cry foul over though....

I think we will be surprised and disappointed when we find out for sure how many degrees of rotation skaters actually perform in the air on big jumps.

 

[Rashela]

https://fsrussia.ru/results/1920/4etap/index.htm

So Kanysheva is out? Any updates on her injuries ? It looks like she will miss the whole season

 

[Jontor]

So Kanysheva is out? Any updates on her injuries ? It looks like she will miss the whole season

Also Leonova is out

 

[DenissVFan]

I think we will be surprised and disappointed when we find out for sure how many degrees of rotation skaters actually perform in the air on big jumps.

True. Not only on big jumps, though.

I thought URs on Polina T.'s jumps were harsh because given her minimal pre-rotation she must have rotated her jumps to a similar degree to skaters who didn't underrotate but pre-rotated their jumps way more than her.

 

[Mathman]

To be even clearer: if a skater ATTEMPTED a triple and did (popped into) a double.
I wish more people would read the handbook or at least try and understand when someone clarifies it here! I truly don't get the point in spending hours and hours discussing what you believe rather than spending some time reading the rules first.

I think it is also useful to mention how the actual numbers work out.

3Lz+3T< with -2 GOE = 5.90+3.36 - 1.18 = 8.08

3Lz+2T with 0 GOE = 5.90+1.30 = 7.20

3Lz+3t<< with -2 GOE = 5.90+1.30 -1.18 = 6.02

This does not count second half bonuses and does not, of course, address the question of what GOE a judge might decide to give out in a particular case. (I believe that GOE is awarded for the combination as a whole, but is calculated only as a percentage of the most valuable jump in the combo, without bonus. Is that right? So even if it is the 2T or 3T that is faulty, you lose GOE based on the value of the Lutz?)

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I think it is also useful to mention how the actual numbers work out.

3Lz+3T< with -2 GOE = 5.90+3.36 - 1.18 = 8.08

3Lz+2T with 0 GOE = 5.90+1.30 = 7.20

3Lz+3t<< with -2 GOE = 5.90+1.30 -1.18 = 6.02

This does not count second half bonuses and does not, of course, address the question of what GOE a judge might decide to give out in a particular case. (I believe that GOE is awarded for the combination as a whole, but is calculated only as a percentage of the most valuable jump in the combo, without bonus. Is that right? So even if it is the 2T or 3T that is faulty, you lose GOE based on the value of the Lutz?)

Exactly. Except BV of 3T< is lower than you wrote, it's 3.15. So, the difference between 3Lz+2T and 3Lz+3T< with 2 GOE points less is only about half a point.

 

[Mathman]

Pack of pics and gifs with 'clean edges'(according to protocols)
https://www.another site.com/r/Figu...1d68255a64&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=duad0e

So I don't think that panels of judges at GP events were strict to everybody. It looks like Eteri skaters got special attention.

I think that the best comment on this topic (I can't find it now, back in the thread), was from the poster who referred to "triage."" The tech panel is not going to review every element performed. At the bottom of the list will be those routine triples that look fine in real time. Post-motem videos posted to another site are not going to have any impact in these decisions of the panel.

What the tech specialists will pay closer attention to are (1) jumps that look fishy in real time and (2) those huge elements (quads and triple Axels) that determine the outcome of the contest. They will want ot be sure to get those right and will subject them to closer scrutiny.

Maybe I am not devious enough to be a skating fan. I try over and over to concoct in my mind any reason why the ISU judging establishment would want to single out skaters that train at a particular school or train with by a particular coach. The ISU has no stake in the matter except to promote the sport of figure skating. Who is doing more to promote international figure skating this season than the Big Three Eteri teens? I cannot see any rationale that would induce the ISU, or any faction within it, to cut off its nose to spite its face. People may be crooks, but are they idiots?

 

[Mathman]

Exactly. Except BV of 3T< is lower than you wrote, it's 3.15.

Are you sure? I got it directly from Communication 2253. Which makes sense, because it is 80% of the base value for a regular 3T (4.20). I think the 3.15 is last year's value (Communication 2168).

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Are you sure? I got it directly from Communication 2253. Which makes sense, because it is 80% of the base value for a regular 3T (4.20). I think the 3.15 is last year's value (Communication 2168).

Oh, you are right (i didn't catch that yet, thanks). So they made BV of the underrotated jumps a little bit higher, after they had made rules for UR calls last year a little bit harsher. That's totaly ISU :thumbsup:

 

[pearly]

I think that the best comment on this topic (I can't find it now, back in the thread), was from the poster who referred to "triage."" The tech panels is not going to review every element performed. At the bottom of the list will be those routine triples that look fine in real time. Post-motem videos posted to another site are not going to have any impact in these decisions of the panel.

What the tech specialists will pay closer attention to are (1) jumps that look fishy in real time and (2) those huge elements (quads and triple Axels) that determine the outcome of the contest. They will want ot be sure to get those right and will subject them to closer scrutiny.

Maybe I am not devious enough to be a skating fan. I try over and over to concoct in my mind any reason why the ISU judging establishment would want to single out skaters that train at a particular school or train with by a particular coach. The ISU has no stake in the matter except to promote the sport of figure skating. Who is doing more to promote international figure skating this season than the Big Three Eteri teens? I cannot see any rationale that would induce the ISU, or any faction within it, to cut off its nose to spite its face. People may be crooks, but are they idiots?

Also: is the panel is allowed to review each jump or element even without a reason visible in real time? I went through the rules just now but can't find it, however I do remember people attending ISU TS/TC seminars telling me that there has to be a reason to call something for review, judges/panels are not allowed to go looking for mistakes.
Regardless of how much the fans sometimes dislike ISU, there are more than just a few instances where judging and rules go in favor of the skater. For example:

Falls in elements and in any part of the program must be reviewed with normal speed.
In all doubtful cases the Technical Panel should act to the benefit of the skater.
Cheated take off: The TP may only watch the replay in regular speed to determine the cheat and downgrade on the take off.

 

[Jontor]

Nerdy stats

Since 1996 there has been an average of 4,9 new girls at Russian Nationals.

Number of entries has been an average of 16,1 entries.

That means that every girl competes an average of 3,3 times at Russian Nationals.

 

[pearly]

Are you sure? I got it directly from Communication 2253. Which makes sense, because it is 80% of the base value for a regular 3T (4.20). I think the 3.15 is last year's value (Communication 2168).

Another ridiculous thing about the ISU is that finding certain things on their page is next to impossible. Instead of having the most current and often needed communications (such as SOV, program requirements etc) listed somewhere visible, you need to go through archives and still can't find what you are looking for.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Yes, in doubtfull situatuons, judges should act in benefit of a skater. However, i think anyone from the tech panel can push a button for review at any time if he/she wants to, and that element will be reviewed (and the most likely outcome will not benefit the skater). The point is not to let judges to push that button, however some of the judges may do it anyway