2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[nussnacker]

Interesting interview by Alisa Lozko, how Mishin ....ahem.... politically influenced the development of her career, Tutberidze, her work as a coach
https://matchtv.ru/figure-skating/m...ruzhbe_s_Zagitovoj_Bolshoje_intervju_Match_TV

She also shared how when they were kids with Alina, their first coach didn't even explain the difference between lutzes and flips, and the girls only new that they need to use different entrances into those 2 jumps, but had no idea about outside/inside edges. explains a lot on why so many kids have edge issues
Also talked about her struggles as a coach, how some kids sometimes do things their own way no matter how much you talk and explain them.
Interesting stories about Mishin too. Did not expect he would do something like this, like telling other coaches not to coach Alisa wow...

 

[Vandevska]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B1jJpX5pmfa/?igshid=16ikg6uycergo

Please appreciate this meme. I don't know if it's going to get me a warning or not (because there's a swear word in it) but I've been laughing at it for the past ten minutes. Help

I saw it yesterday and thought it was the bomb

 

[Fluture]

The thing is - it is not random. We who follow the sport for some time know these several "judging anomalies" quite well. Not that we have to agree with them because they are unfair to other skaters. But they are known and may be treated as "unofficial rules" rather than the pretext to say that judging in figure skating is irrelevant per se.

I appreciate your point here. But I have to say that my point never was that judging in figure skating was “irrelevant per se“. That’s ridiculous. If it was this wouldn’t be an Olympic sport at all. What I said was that the judges aren‘t infallible. Which is the total opposite of saying they‘re irrelevant altogether. And believe me, I got that message very well when Zhenya’s lutz suddenly was called last season when she started to include 3 of them in her programs. But you just wrote a whole paragraph about her (and Kaetlyn) that still doesn‘t explain the event that was Worlds 2019 where no one in the Top 12 or so got any lutz edge called even though some were blatantly inside like Zhenya‘s or Kaori‘s or at least flat like Satoko‘s and Bradie‘s. I don‘t think that‘s all due to Evgenia and her reputation lol. They also basically called no URs whatsoever in the whole event. So that was my original point. That judges can and do make mistakes. In this case it‘s the technical panel more than anything but judges are still supposed to award their GOE. Anyway, this discussion is pointless. I was merely pointing out that judges/technical panel aren’t immune to making mistakes and it happens. No need to make it sound as if I (or anyone else) wanted to revoke the entire judging system just because we dared to point something out about Kamila‘s lutz technique.

 

[Fluture]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B1jJpX5pmfa/?igshid=16ikg6uycergo

Please appreciate this meme. I don't know if it's going to get me a warning or not (because there's a swear word in it) but I've been laughing at it for the past ten minutes. Help

Oh my god.

 

[Vandevska]

Interesting interview by Alisa Lozko, how Mishin ....ahem.... politically influenced the development of her career, Tutberidze, her work as a coach
https://matchtv.ru/figure-skating/m...ruzhbe_s_Zagitovoj_Bolshoje_intervju_Match_TV

She also shared how when they were kids with Alina, their first coach didn't even explain the difference between lutzes and flips, and the girls only new that they need to use different entrances into those 2 jumps, but had no idea about outside/inside edges. explains a lot on why so many kids have edge issues
Also talked about her struggles as a coach, how some kids sometimes do things their own way no matter how much you talk and explain them.
Interesting stories about Mishin too. Did not expect he would do something like this, like telling other coaches not to coach Alisa wow...

I just read this. It's a pity that happened to her. The poor girl. I haven't really heard of her before, I just saw a few videos and she was beautiful. Such a pity. I have to say that after this I dislike Mishin a lot.

 

[ruga]

Wow, it's insane that they did not allow her to change coaches. She was one of my favorite non-elite skaters. I think she could have improved a lot under Eteri. Too bad that such politicking potentially ruined her career.

 

[nussnacker]

Wow, it's insane that they did not allow her to change coaches. She was one of my favorite non-elite skaters. I think she could have improved a lot under Eteri. Too bad that such politicking potentially ruined her career.

I know... it's baffling to me that they tried to stay in Moscow at Sambo, but 'someone from above' did not let them and made them go back to Mishin.
And when she came back, Mishin team did not take her on summer camp without explaining the reasons. huh...
I respect Mishin immensely, but this situation is really strange.

 

[flanker]

No. We’re not experts here, at least I am not, no idea about you. But some things are just blatantly obvious and it annoys me that whining about judges is only allowed in some cases whereas in others criticism is met with that “BUT the judges said....“ card. Seriously. Just out of interest: Do you believe Evgenia Medvedeva has a correct lutz edge most of the time? Because judges do. But you don‘t see me running around claiming Zhenya‘s lutz is correct just because the judges make it seem as if it was. According to them basically everyone at Worlds 2019 had a correct lutz edge, even though they actually mistook Sofia’s lutz for a flip to a degree that they entered it incorrectly in the system. No one should revoke the judges but it’s not like they’re infallible either.

As for Kamila: I didn‘t say her combination wasn‘t good. It didn‘t have particularly good flow between the two jumps but she has a beautiful rippon and gets good height. So, yeah, I‘m not even having a problem with the judges there. I never said she flutzes either because I don‘t think she does. I just said her technique was strange because I‘ve never seen anyone jump like that and as of right now, it doesn‘t seem to be very sustainable or practical. We will see and maybe she‘ll surprise me. Rant over lol.

"I'm no expert but" sounds similar to "I'm a fan but" to my ears . What you've found "weird/strange" doesn't look weird/strange to me. I remember when I've read that "Alina has a bad posture". That's one more observation that looks more weird to me than the conclusion of the observation itself. I don't see you running around claiming about Zhenya's lutz because I don't see many users bringing the question of the correct edge here (not saying there wasn't such debate at all but definitely such debates were rare in comp. with the debates about Alina's posture etc.). But when you or any other user brings here his observation about weirdness of something, he has to understand that at least some other users would disagree (and some would agree so the following arguing is compulsory ).

About the judges. First I sould mention that edge calls are not the thing of the panel of judges but technical panel, but that's minor. As somebory mentioned, judges are from different countries with different preferences, yet it can be rarely seen there would be some really weird deviation in their judgement. That doesn't mean I would always agree with them (2016 WC silver for Ashley or 2018 EC bronze for Carolina are my two nightmares) but overally I must say that mostly when I see some skate later I am mostly forced to agree with tech panel/judges even when I originally was not happy with it (e.g. Anastasia Galustyan's UR calls at WC 2019 - when I saw it later I had to admit that all her jumps were really UR). If the whining about judges is allowed only in some cases? Depends on which cases. I'm afraid there are always at least two points of view. E.g. when I see that the whole group of fans called a "herd" I think I see the totally different point of view and that particular user awould probably have completely different idea about when whining about the judges is allowed than me.

 

[Orlov]

Interesting interview by Alisa Lozko, how Mishin ....ahem.... politically influenced the development of her career

For me it is shocking.

- How did it happen that you managed to train with Eteri Georgievna for some time, but there was no official information about your transition?

- I didn’t fully understand that situation myself. At that moment the issue was resolved my dad at the federal level. As dad later told me, an order came from St. Petersburg to Moscow so that the Moscow Federation would return me back. For a week, this all dragged on, we went to the offices, trying to resolve the issue. We wanted to stay in Moscow in the group of Eteri Georgievna. But the leadership insisted that we return to St. Petersburg to avoid conflicts.

- How is this possible? Many athletes change coaches, clubs, go to other cities and countries, even change sports citizenship. Why could you not let go?

- Just like that. They said they did not want to lose the athlete.

<...>

- The transition to Pisarenko was an overdue decision, when relations in the Mishin group went wrong?

- Yes. Alexei Nikolayevich heard rumors that I want to go to Tutberidze again. And he, let’s say, recommended that all coaches of "Star Ice" not to take me. I learned about this from Alina Yuryevna Pisarenko, who, at her own peril and risk, nevertheless undertook to train me. By the way, our cooperation turned out to be successful.

Oooh ... these old Soviet politic a-holes ...

 

[Scott512]

One of my dislikes of Sambo coaches is that they seem to not teach or do no encourage skaters to 'go easy' for performances like exhibitions. While the fighting/intensity serves them well in competition we often see them do unnecessary difficult things in exhibitions, at this point they've avoided causing injury or aggravating an injury that takes them out of a later competition, hopefully they don't break that streak. Last season both at GPF and Nationals Zagitova did something that caused injury, GPF she tripped over a cable I believe this was where Eteri wanted to pull her from the competition and Nationals, got some kind of burns or something (people were using it to explain the disastrous FS) but then in her exhibitions was throwing triple-triples.

Kamila's fall in the exhibition was super awkward and she was a bit hesitant getting up, hopefully it was just a hesitation due to shock of impact and not injury.

that's right the sambo girls do go hard in EXO's and galas. Too hard. Especially a Lena with her injuries last year a Grand Prix final and Nationals.

"Some" it's katymay. Why katymay assume that Kamila is injured? Well...



probably because she(he) wants it inside her(his) heart

Come on Orlov, if you can assume that American white men are lazy you certainly assume that someone with the name of Katymay is a her.

 

[Fluture]

I know... it's baffling to me that they tried to stay in Moscow at Sambo, but 'someone from above' did not let them and made them go back to Mishin.
And when she came back, Mishin team did not take her on summer camp without explaining the reasons. huh...
I respect Mishin immensely, but this situation is really strange.

Well, that sounds awful. Poor girl. Who knows how her career could have gone had she been allowed to stay with the coach she wanted to. This is also an ugly thing from Mishin. Hm. I‘m disappointed.

 

[katymay]

"Some" it's katymay. Why katymay assume that Kamila is injured? Well...



probably because she(he) wants it inside her(his) heart

You would be wrong. Speaking for myself, I value speed. Kamila flys across the ice, throughout the program. She never loses steam. I love FAST skaters. Alysa has difficulty with front and back crossovers, and even though this deficiency is artfully covered by transitions, she still pokes along. But, even without the quad, the 3A in the short and 2 3A's (one in combo) in the long make Alysa almost unbeatable. At least this year.

 

[Orlov]

You would be wrong. Speaking for myself, I value speed. Kamila flys across the ice, throughout the program. She never loses steam. I love FAST skaters. Alysa has difficulty with front and back crossovers, and even though this deficiency is artfully covered by transitions, she still pokes along. But, even without the quad, the 3A in the short and 2 3A's (one in combo) in the long make Alysa almost unbeatable. At least this year.

Let's see I don’t think that Alice’s affairs are as smooth and rosy as you think. But I see how the girl is progressing and does not want to stand still and live in illusions (as many people like to do). I wrote about this in this thread.
One way or another - I think it will be interesting. We'll see

 

[nussnacker]

But isn't it odd that not one of Eteri's girls does triple axels yet even though a few do quads well enough?

What do you mean? one 19 year old (Elizabet), one 15-16 year old (Kostornaya learned one), one 11-12 year old (Akatyeva), that's 3 girls.
That's more than most coaches would hope for, 3 girls with 3A in one team is quite an achievement.
I can't think of many teams who achieved more success with 3As in their teams, Hamada maybe, she also has 3 girls who managed to learn 3A iirc

 

[Vandevska]

True.

But isn't it odd that not one of Eteri's girls does triple axels yet even though a few do quads well enough?

No one is in the league of the Koreans when it comes to fan abuse. They still haunt Adelina 5 and 1/2 years later. But I hope we don't see the Russian fans of which I am one gang up on little Alysa and nitpick on everything. But I fear that will happen.

Well Eteri team is always improving. Maybe they finally figured it out. For sure the next generation (and here i mean Akatieva and co.) will have a 3A. Akatieva already does.

 

[Fluture]

Well Eteri team is always improving. Maybe they finally figured it out. For sure the next generation (and here i mean Akatieva and co.) will have a 3A. Akatieva already does.

Sasha, Aliona and Anna are training 3A, too, though. Who says they won‘t get it?

 

[Vandevska]

Sasha, Aliona and Anna are training 3A, too, though. Who says they won‘t get it?

Certainly not me. I was just saying that that generation already has it, so essentially it's not true that no one has it right now.
My highest hopes from the 3A are still on Aliona though.

 

[Fluture]

Certainly not me. I was just saying that that generation already has it, so essentially it's not true that no one has it right now.
My highest hopes from the 3A are still on Aliona though.

Yeah, that was more of a hypothetical question anyway. And I know you didn’t mean it like that but it sometimes feels as if people were so ready to replace older skaters when the new ones turn up in juniors. And Sasha and the others have barely turned seniors yet. I’m hoping for Aliona’s 3A too because it would make her more competitive with Anna and Sasha and would make the rivalry even more exciting but I don‘t think we should rule out Sasha on anything. I firmly believe that she won‘t stop until she lands that 3A at least once in competition. That’s just her.

 

[Edwin]

Well, that sounds awful. Poor girl. Who knows how her career could have gone had she been allowed to stay with the coach she wanted to. This is also an ugly thing from Mishin. Hm. I‘m disappointed.

Game of Thrones in Russian figure skating, sort of.

There is of course this game of power, influence, chances, money, above the more or less healthy competition for results. I can imagine Tutberidze, Byuanova, TAT also being major players.
What I hate is them using their athletes as pawns, playing dirty with them. Poaching for one. Denying them chances, denying necessary rest and/or healthcare so they’ll end up ruining themselves is much worse.
And unforgivable in any other society.

No sport is immune to this but in figure skating and gymnastics these pawns are children and youths, unable to defend themselves. And their parents often don’t know what and why this is happening.

We’ll see at Senior Test Skates if #TeamMishin is still a major factor. IMO his management skills are failing him, and the SPb skaters are paying the prize.

 

[MrECartman]

Is Kamila Valieva age-eligible for Senior Russian Nationals this year?