2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[zounger]

Whoever planning to do Botox please postpone it. A lot of laughing is coming the next two GPs.

 

[madmax]

There is fear in certain conservative circles over very young girls, jumping beans, 'destroying' the 'sport' of ladies single figure skating. Ladies single figure skating, which is such an old fashioned term, not applicable to athletes, IMO. Sport, as in the Olympic motto of stronger, higher, faster, which is what figure skating shouldn't be about according to those conservatives, that apparently are only interested in certain female physical features??

Well, if what matters is only "stronger, higher, faster", we can start by eliminating charming dresses, sequins and stuff like that.
It doesn't seem to me that Elaine Thompson ran with a dress in Rio, does she?
We could also impose the execution of the jumps in a zone of the rink equipped with 2-3 high-definition cameras at 1200 fps, in order to evaluate with certainty the technical execution, to measure speed, height and length of the jumps.
The score could be assigned by a computer with a simple algorithm.
Besides, why the hell there have to be scores for components like "choreography" or "interpretation"? If you want a show, go see the ballet or a musical, not a sport competition! I'm wrong?

 

[readernick]

You know how Eteri camp and their BV stragety - she has four Lutzes for the BV. Anna doesn't have a quad toe or sal (not that I know of anyway), so that's her best option. On a good day like SkAm where she doesn't get get edge calls, it's a good strat.

I understand the strategy and it makes sense. Eteri is the queen of maximizing BV. I am just saying it comes with a risk because while the technical panel at SA was not very strict (with any skater) on edges, that does not seem to be the trend this season. Because URs are now punished less harshly than last season, technical panels seem to be generally stricter and not just with URs. They are being very strict with StepSqs, spins, edges, and URs. Anna is at risk of being called in most competitions. However, she will do well with a lenient panel. I assume Anna's team understood the risk prior to giving her this layout.

 

[nussnacker]

On a positive note:
1) Anna is qualified for GPF, and despite being judged harsher than some others (imo), she still won with a solid margin. Just to show, that no matter the calls, she’s head and shoulders ahead of the competition.
2) that giant bear was .... enormously giant! she has some loyal fans, who gift her the plushies this big!

 

[BabySloth]

Returning to the edge calls of Alina and Anna. The problem is that they both heavily rely on the Lutz, Alina with 3Lz-3Lo and Anna with the 4Lz.
The judges actually did not do them any favors when they ignored those edges last season (because they were there, to be honest). Now it’s the middle of the season, and it’s hard to change your layout and also maximize the BV. If they had been called last season Alina could have changed to 3F-3Lo and Anna to 4F or they could have started working on the edge more.

So in a sense I understand the frustration of the people that think it was unfair to start calling them now. Team Tut has a big problem to solve. I am very curious whether they will change the layout or go with the Lutzes and hope they won’t get called.

It’s interesting why they decided that Kostornaia shouldn’t do Lutz combo this season. She did last year and wasn’t called either. But now it seems it was a very wise decision.

I think Sasha should be safe, as far as I can tell, her edge is outside.

 

[readernick]

Returning to the edge calls of Alina and Anna. The problem is that they both heavily rely on the Lutz, Alina with 3Lz-3Lo and Anna with the 4Lz.
The judges actually did not do them any favors when they ignored those edges last season (because they were there, to be honest). Now it’s the middle of the season, and it’s hard to change your layout and also maximize the BV. If they had been called last season Alina could have changed to 3F-3Lo and Anna to 4F or they could have started working on the edge more.

So in a sense I understand the frustration of the people that think it was unfair to start calling them now. Team Tut has a big problem to solve. I am very curious whether they will change the layout or go with the Lutzes and hope they won’t get called.

It’s interesting why they decided that Kostornaia shouldn’t do Lutz combo this season. She did last year and wasn’t called either. But now it seems it was a very wise decision.

I think Sasha should be safe, as far as I can tell, her edge is outside.

Yes, Sasha is the one in that group with a true lutz. She doesn't need to worry about edge calls. I do find it strange that they never seem to call lutz edges in juniors. I noticed multiple times last season that the callers were calling everyone left and right on their flip edges but no one was getting called on their lutzes in juniors. I agree that is bad for the skaters. Not just Eteri's skaters but all of the junior skaters. They should be called on their weaknesses so that they can improve prior to entering seniors.

 

[Globetrotter]

If she falls in her quads its over, she needs to improve her poor skating skills.
Her skating skills were okaish in junior although still not good, but looks to have regressed this year.

Her skating skills reminds me of Med in her early career.

I agree that SS is Anna’s weakest area. However, I do think she performs and interprets well. Sasha on the other hand has pretty good SS but weak interpretive skills. In the end, things balance out which is why I think it is completely fair they get about equal PCS. Although I think I will give Anna about 1-1.5 pts more in FS PCS as I think she also performs and reach out to the audience more strongly.

 

[karina17]

Why are people saying Anna is the weakest "because if she doesn't land her quads she will lose to ____" - as if she hasn't landed 5 out of 5 quads in all her senior competitions so far? It's like if I said (eg) Alyona is the weakest because if she falls on her triples she will lose. She isn't falling on her triples anyway, so why would I say that?

Nothing wrong with saying Anna is the weakest of the 4A or whatever since that's your opinion, but that's a pretty silly reason to cite for it, imo.

 

[Globetrotter]

The judges aren’t being biased or petty. Anna is a nice girl and a decent skater, but the judges are doing the right thing. Hopefully it helps her skating to improve. Her coaches should be working with her on these issues. As fans we should also recognize weaknesses of the skaters and not turn a blind eye.

I don’t disagree with her overall PCS. I will personally score her about 1.5 pts total in FS than Sasha as her PE and IN are stronger but Sasha is stronger in SS. The only issue is the differences in the PCS don’t really reflect the obvious strengths and weaknesses in the components. I will have Sasha about 8.25 in SS but 7 in IN and Anna about 8.5 in IN and 7 in SS. But that’s not visibly being differentiated.

 

[Tolstoj]

It is unlikely that Rika will be scored badly at NHK, while honestly, if there will be any chance of Medvedeva winning, rusfed will totally sink Satoko at Rostelecom to ensure Medvedeva makes GPF.

Yeah i have the same feeling about judging at Rostelecom, even if it wasn't about Medvedeva.

I've always thought, each GP has their approach on judging, and regardless if the panel keeps changing, the approach is still the same and that goes beyond the politics, it's more about way of thinking the sport.

Judging at Rostelecom takes great consideration about how an element appear on the ice, if it looks big they are going to reward it (even if maybe it's not really fully rotated, or if the landing is not ideal,...): i remember one year (2015 i think) where Ross Miner got very big scores there despite mistakes because his triples looked very big. That approach is not going to help Satoko which has very small jumps.

In fairness that would also balance the judging here, which i thought they overscored Miyahara a little (her 3ltz-3t is still not a +3/+4 in my mind even though it looks bigger now)

That said Miyahara's jumps looked closer to Shcherbakova's triples which also aren't huge.

 

[ruga]

Yes, Sasha is the one in that group with a true lutz. She doesn't need to worry about edge calls. I do find it strange that they never seem to call lutz edges in juniors. I noticed multiple times last season that the callers were calling everyone left and right on their flip edges but no one was getting called on their lutzes in juniors. I agree that is bad for the skaters. Not just Eteri's skaters but all of the junior skaters. They should be called on their weaknesses so that they can improve prior to entering seniors.

I noticed that too. Suddenly everyone became a lipper (and not just in juniors) while flutzes were called according to TP's mood. This inconsistency is indeed harmful. Protocols should tell skaters what elements are good and where they can improve so they don't have to change layouts in the middle of the season.

 

[starla16]

Yeah i have the same feeling about judging at Rostelecom, even if it wasn't about Medvedeva.

I've always thought, each GP has their approach on judging, and regardless if the panel keeps changing, the approach is still the same and that goes beyond the politics, it's more about way of thinking the sport.

Judging at Rostelecom takes great consideration about how an element appear on the ice, if it looks big they are going to reward it (even if maybe it's not really fully rotated, or if the landing is not ideal,...): i remember one year (2015 i think) where Ross Miner got very big scores there despite mistakes because his triples looked very big. That approach is not going to help Satoko which has very small jumps.

In fairness that would also balance the judging here, which i thought they overscored Miyahara a little (her 3ltz-3t is still not a +3/+4 in my mind even though it looks bigger now)

That said Miyahara's jumps looked closer to Shcherbakova's triples which also aren't huge.

usually events get lenient or give higher PCS if the competitors are no threat or there are no home skater advantages
look at pairs at IDF and SKam

 

[Thrashergurl]

Why are people saying Anna is the weakest "because if she doesn't land her quads she will lose to ____" - as if she hasn't landed 5 out of 5 quads in all her senior competitions so far? It's like if I said (eg) Alyona is the weakest because if she falls on her triples she will lose. She isn't falling on her triples anyway, so why would I say that?

Nothing wrong with saying Anna is the weakest of the 4A or whatever since that's your opinion, but that's a pretty silly reason to cite for it, imo.

I think common sense should prevail here. Look at her skating and the judges scores. If she doesn’t land her quads she’s not winning. You can dislike that all you want to, but it’s pretty clear. Look at her skating. Look at the scores. She and her team know she needs the quads, the costume change...she needs those. Let’s hope they work on the other areas needed.
Alyona is another story. Her overall skating is amazing. Judges are rewarding that. Rightfully so

 

[Globetrotter]

Yes, Sasha is the one in that group with a true lutz. She doesn't need to worry about edge calls. I do find it strange that they never seem to call lutz edges in juniors. I noticed multiple times last season that the callers were calling everyone left and right on their flip edges but no one was getting called on their lutzes in juniors. I agree that is bad for the skaters. Not just Eteri's skaters but all of the junior skaters. They should be called on their weaknesses so that they can improve prior to entering seniors.

Among the 4As, Sasha’s Lutz has the deepest outside edge. Since it is clearly outside, there is no doubt. Alina, Anna and Alyona all have mostly shallow outside edges and prone to shifting flat. I like Alyona a lot but I am also aware that she did not have the best Lutz edges and I don’t have any issues of it being called ! Anna’s calls in her FS IMO were fair, her lack of Lutz outside edges were simply not beyond reasonable doubt. Alina’s e call in last weeks IdF SP was too harsh though. A ! call will suffice. I am in full support of strict tech judging as I think skaters like Sasha and Liza Tuks deserve more reward for performing a truer lutz, all else being equal.

 

[silveruskate]

Her overall skating is quite lovely actually, the audiences and commentators are liking her style and her performance ability. If the judges think they can bring her down with petty and biased judging then that's more reflective of there spiteful mindset. In musicality and refinement she can match Kostornaia, in athleticism she can match Trusova. It looks now like she needs to land those 4T and 3A sooner.

No, her musicality is more than Trusova but less than Kostornaia. And her tech is more than Kostornaia but less than Trusova.

 

[karina17]

I think common sense should prevail here. Look at her skating and the judges scores. If she doesn’t land her quads she’s not winning. You can dislike that all you want to, but it’s pretty clear. Look at her skating. Look at the scores. She and her team know she needs the quads, the costume change...she needs those. Let’s hope they work on the other areas needed.
Alyona is another story. Her overall skating is amazing. Judges are rewarding that. Rightfully so

You misunderstand me, I'm not saying Anna is better than Alyona. I am saying that stating Anna isn't good if you remove an aspect of her skating (landing quads) which has been present every single time she has skated this season is quite silly. If I said Alyona isn't good because if you take away her, let's say, triple-triple combos (which have been stellar every time she has skated this season), then she won't beat the rest, that would make zero sense.

By the way, didn't mean to target Alyona specifically in my original comment. My comment originally had Alina as an example, but then I remembered she slipped on her 3Lz at IDF, so I went for the next skater on my mind who hadn't fallen on a triple this season.

 

[monochrom3]

You know how Eteri camp and their BV stragety - she has four Lutzes for the BV. Anna doesn't have a quad toe or sal (not that I know of anyway), so that's her best option. On a good day like SkAm where she doesn't get get edge calls, it's a good strat.

She had a 4T, but as far as I know her injury previously makes it impossible for her to do the 4T anymore (something about the technique?) while she can still do the 4Lz.
She has a 4F but I imagine consistency on the 4Lz is much better.

 

[prorussian fan]

How many triple jumps can be repeated in the free program?
For Anna, I would think about the design: 4Lz + 3toe, 4Lz, 2A, 2A, 3F + 3Loop, 3Loop + Euler + 3Sal, 3F.
It's possible? So she would only receive the call! in the 4Lz but would still have an advantage when doing them.

 

[silveruskate]

How many triple jumps can be repeated in the free program?
For Anna, I would think about the design: 4Lz + 3toe, 4Lz, 2A, 2A, 3F + 3Loop, 3Loop + Euler + 3Sal, 3F.
It's possible? So she would only receive the call! in the 4Lz but would still have an advantage when doing them.

Only two jumps can be repeated, quads or triples. I think 3F-3Lo and keeping one 3Lz would be a good change. As she is ! the only loss is GOE so maybe don't change anything.

 

[prorussian fan]

Only two jumps can be repeated, quads or triples. I think 3F-3Lo and keeping one 3Lz would be a good change. As she is ! the only loss is GOE so maybe don't change anything.

So, I think her design could be: 4Lz + 3toe, 4Lz, 2A, 2A, 3F + 3Loop, 3F+2T+2L, 3Sal. What do you think?