2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Arbitrary]

Then let’s hope technology come along which can objectively measure rotations and landing. That will be fun. Tennis has Hawkeye to once and for all clear up if the ball is in or out. If the rotation eye can come along for FS, that will be fun. Except that this thread may suddenly shrink in posts as fans no longer have any complaints to ventilate about whether the edge was e or ! and that judges are systematically picking only on certain girls . Enough seen on the call for strict judging but when the real strictness gets applied, folks go into hissy fits.

People used to speculate there are "double standards" in various parts of life.

My experience tells me there is no such thing.
The standards are never "double".
The standards are always multiple, various, sometimes chaotic and change the course on request.
Business and politics rule the standards.
Russia isn't in position to dictate anything.

 

[MissBeeFarm]

My main two takeaways are:

1) Anna's edge on Lutz jumps is flat and looking at them in isolation the calls were fair
2) Other skaters should have been called as well. So not calling everyone is what made the judging unfair

Now, can everyone wanting to discuss unfair judging at CoC please open a seperate thread? Because it inevitably concerns skaters not from Russia. I mean, we've got screenshots from Satoko on here now. Please open a seperate thread, it's exhausting reading through this thread, when it's either about how judging works in general or edge/UR issues of non-Russian skaters.

 

[zounger]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B4rGo3FplS9/ Anna got the message and trying to fix her Lutz (This is not a good idea though... )

 

[klena]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B4rGo3FplS9/ Anna got the message and trying to fix her Lutz (This is not a good idea though... )

No, it's a message from Daniil to judges panel that Anna's lutz edge is obviously outside

https://www.instagram.com/stories/daniil_gleikhengauz/

 

[[email protected]]

I get that you guys really want to talk about this.. but Satoko is not a Russian lady.

Sam.. if you start a thread or find a thread on UR/Edge calls then others who don't normally come in this thread can contribute their opinions as well. From your picture it does look like Satoko was under here. I'm not saying you don't have the right to complain. Can we do it in a thread other than the Russian Ladies thread, please?

I know that there are users here who know a lot about UR and edge calls but not all of them read the Russian Ladies thread as it is an extremely busy thread where conversation is difficult. Can we please take it somewhere that is more conducive to an actual reasoned debate?

This is really, really cluttering up this thread.

The Russian lady Liza Tuktamysheva lost the chance for GPF because she lost 2 points to Satoko at CoC. If Satoko's 3Lz-3T was marked 3Lz<-3T< she would have received about 8 points for it and Liza could be in. I argue with evidence that it was a mistake by TP, the mistake which can play a significant role in the further career of one of the most decorated Russian skaters.

I think that the general mood is not to allow the dominance of Russian ladies at GPF. This explains Liza's third rather than the second place...

It's not my conspiracy theory - it's the latest quote by Mishin. Let's give him a GS infraction for conspiracy theories!

https://tass.ru/sport/7096387

P.S. And as for cluttering the thread, I estimate the frequency of my posting here as 30-40 posts per month. Some other posters can easily do it within a day...

 

[LenaRadiFan]

Looks like Elena will be the next guest on figurka. I just saw an insta story

 

[Mishaminion]

The result of per jump analysis brings two big disadvantages:
- Long time before marks announced. Bad for TV.
- Some well established great skaters with a lot of medals may find themselves "not so great".

Your first point is exactly what I was talking about with there only being limited time to properly judge things.

 

[pearly]

Let's not find "evil reasons" and consider that it was a coincidence that Satoko received just enough UR calls to narrow win over Liza leaving her 0 GPF chances. And as my eyes do not deceive me and her uncalled 3Lz-3T with +1.43GOE had URs on both jumps with the UR on 3T being a trully eggregious one, let's agree that panel's angle was very different from ours.

Doing that on purpose would require Rainman level math to be done within those few minutes. And coordination between the panel and the judges.

 

[Mishaminion]

The Russian lady Liza Tuktamysheva lost the chance for GPF because she lost 2 points to Satoko at CoC. If Satoko's 3Lz-3T was marked 3Lz<-3T< she would have received about 8 points for it and Liza could be in. I argue with evidence that it was a mistake by TP, the mistake which can play a significant role in the further career of one of the most decorated Russian skaters.

I think that the general mood is not to allow the dominance of Russian ladies at GPF. This explains Liza's third rather than the second place...

It's not my conspiracy theory - it's the latest quote by Mishin. Let's give him a GS infraction for conspiracy theories!

https://tass.ru/sport/7096387

P.S. And as for cluttering the thread, I estimate the frequency of my posting here as 30-40 posts per month. Some other posters can easily do it within a day...

Mishin is hardly an unbiased source he is her coach.

There are so many IFs here.

IF Liza skated her SP better we would not be having this conversation.

IF Satoko had her combo called she might still have scraped by.

Liza's second 3A was possibly UR too, IF called she would have lost points on. Liza also had two level 3 spins and a level 3 step sequence which is nothing new.
Satoko gets level 4 on all and has some of the best spins and skating skills in ladies.

Ultimately though Liza took herself out of contention with a poor SP.

 

[Arbitrary]

Bringing any technical device to help the judgement will result in attempts of the training staff and skaters to adopt again.
Skaters will be trained to look good on video, to con the automatic blade/edge recognition.

It may be interesting but hardly improves the judgement. Sometimes there is a clear distance between 1st to the 2nd, from 2nd to the 3rd, from 3rd to the rest. Sometimes.
We can say Anna did overall better than Miyahara. We cannot say the same about Miyahara and Liza. So? The same correct for Liza vs Miyahara if they were swapped. Too narrow decision and someone will loose anyway.

P.S. Yes, France was better than Croatia but it was VAR penalty which decided the result of the FIFA World Chumpionship a year ago. Very-very narrow decision on the field of thousands times more money involved.

 

[zounger]

P.S. Yes, France was better than Croatia but it was VAR penalty which decided the result of the FIFA World Chumpionship a year ago. Very-very narrow decision on the field of thousands times more money involved.

The VAR in figure skating will look like this https://youtu.be/AV61i3E951A

 

[Mishaminion]

Liza's SP score I think was reasonably generous I believe.

65.57

She lost 5 whole points on her 3A, 4 in GOE and 1 for fall deduction. She lost 3-4+ points in BV and potential GOE on 2T instead of 3T, plus whatever effect the messy program had on PCS.

So without all that probably 76+ which she hasn't been close to this season even skating relatively clean, or last season (70.65 2018 GPF), apart from the usually very inflated scores we see for everyone at WTT.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I’m just happy to see my OG homie is still at it....teaching the next generation :hap93:

https://vk.com/video-31036833_456239571

 

[nussnacker]

I’m just happy to see my OG homie is still at it....teaching the next generation :hap93:

https://vk.com/video-31036833_456239571

Have you seen her Plushenko show promo videos? She looks gorgeous in those!

 

[katymay]

My main two takeaways are:

1) Anna's edge on Lutz jumps is flat and looking at them in isolation the calls were fair
2) Other skaters should have been called as well. So not calling everyone is what made the judging unfair

Now, can everyone wanting to discuss unfair judging at CoC please open a seperate thread? Because it inevitably concerns skaters not from Russia. I mean, we've got screenshots from Satoko on here now. Please open a seperate thread, it's exhausting reading through this thread, when it's either about how judging works in general or edge/UR issues of non-Russian skaters.

My feeling is that the bottom group is always judged more leniently. It is human nature. You want these skaters to stand on their feet and complete what jumps they have, and how they do this is not as important as those girls skating in the top group-the actual contenders. Also bear in mind that judges watch practices, have seen most skaters before, and to some extent, imperfections are internalized in their minds. For many skaters there is an assumption of UR, flutz, flat edge etc. Vincent Zhou and Miriah Nagasu were unfairly dinged on multiple occasions, based mostly on their reputation for UR.
The judges here may well have let a few skaters 'slide'-but the other issue is their viewing angle, and they don't have 30 min to review a jump. (And for the lower placed skaters, it doesn't matter as much)

 

[zounger]

I’m just happy to see my OG homie is still at it....teaching the next generation :hap93:

https://vk.com/video-31036833_456239571

She still has the best I spin . Nice extensions too...

 

[Good Vibes Only]

My main two takeaways are:

1) Anna's edge on Lutz jumps is flat and looking at them in isolation the calls were fair
2) Other skaters should have been called as well. So not calling everyone is what made the judging unfair

Now, can everyone wanting to discuss unfair judging at CoC please open a seperate thread? Because it inevitably concerns skaters not from Russia. I mean, we've got screenshots from Satoko on here now. Please open a seperate thread, it's exhausting reading through this thread, when it's either about how judging works in general or edge/UR issues of non-Russian skaters.

I love your avatar

 

[Mathman]

And you would name the tech panel composition of the first 4 events a pure coincidence?

I am still not entirely convinced. Others could look at the nationalities of the tech panelists and conclude, "Hey, the majority are from Europe. No fair to Asian and North American skaters!"

Anyway, I have to say this. If there is a conspiracy to prevent the Russian teenagers from running away with all the loot this season, that conspiracy has failed utterly. It has proven itself to be the most ineffectual conspiracy in the history of conspiracies.

As Aragorn son of Arathorn said in The Lord of the Rings, speaking of the villainous Orks of Mordor: "It is difficult with these evil folk to know when they are in league and when they are cheating one another." :yes:

 

[Scott512]

Every time I think this thread has reached a limit, it shows a new kind of crazy. Astonishing.

We are not normal. We are well above normal! ;}

My main two takeaways are:

1) Anna's edge on Lutz jumps is flat and looking at them in isolation the calls were fair
2) Other skaters should have been called as well. So not calling everyone is what made the judging unfair

Now, can everyone wanting to discuss unfair judging at CoC please open a seperate thread? Because it inevitably concerns skaters not from Russia. I mean, we've got screenshots from Satoko on here now. Please open a seperate thread, it's exhausting reading through this thread, when it's either about how judging works in general or edge/UR issues of non-Russian skaters.

True.

I’m just happy to see my OG homie is still at it....teaching the next generation :hap93:

https://vk.com/video-31036833_456239571

I wish Yulia was still competiing. Even if she was only the #10 Russian.

 

[ruga]

I am still not entirely convinced. Others could look at the nationalities of the tech panelists and conclude, "Hey, the majority are from Europe. No fair to Asian and North American skaters!"

But didn't ISU approve a new 'rule' that TP can't consist of people from countries that have a realistic chance to medal at that particular event? It was decided only for Worlds though, but maybe the same applies to smaller events. So there is a high probability that we almost won't see American, Japanese, Korean and Russian controllers and specialists at any major events.