2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 716 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Somehow I don't think the rules will change much.

The overwhelming evidence of viewership suggests this ladies revolution is very well supported.

The ISU are interested in the growth of the sport not the outcries of the minority who want to limit that

I mean you can hear certain western commentaries, they are not happy about these wins "only because of the jumps" and most of these people are not just commentaries but also coaches too and they often say what many coaches and Feds agree.

Personally i don't think weighting more artistry would be good because it would only make singles skating more political much like Ice Dance with high components given to the skaters you want to push more. (which is already happening but in that case scenario it would influence a lot more). To me that is almost a trap: you'd think more artistic skaters would appear but in reality you're only allowing more politicking.

BUT

I'm all over more deductions if you fall, and here's what i'd propose:

1) If you fall you cannot get a SB in PCS, unless your previous performances had even more falls/mistakes since falls are not part of a choreography, we weren't meant to gasp at that moment of the program, and it's not adding to the performance (more like the opposite)

2) Falls or Jump mistakes should count more when they appear in a Short Program, since you only have 3 jumping elements and if you botch one of those, you botched 33% of your jumps.

This would prevent splatfests since skaters would be less inclined to include planned falls or even jumps they rarely land (like Trusova's 4S, Kolyada's 4ltz, Messing's 4ltz, etc...) if the cost is that high.

It's nothing new, it used to be this way for decades until the last few years when quads started to become a thing and judges started to reward even programs with multiple falls.
 
I mean you can hear certain western commentaries, they are not happy about these wins "only because of the jumps" and most of these people are not just commentaries but also coaches too and they often say what many coaches and Feds agree.

Personally i don't think weighting more artistry would be good because it would only make singles skating more political much like Ice Dance with high components given to the skaters you want to push more. (which is already happening but in that case scenario it would influence a lot more). To me that is almost trap: you'd think more artistic skaters would appear but in reality you're only allowing more politicking.

BUT

I'm all over more deductions if you fall, and here's what i'd propose:

1) If you fall you cannot get a SB in PCS, unless your previous performances had even more falls/mistakes since falls are not part of a choreography, we weren't meant to gasp at that moment of the program.

2) Falls or Jump mistakes should count more when they appear in a Short Program, since you only have 3 jumping elements and if you botch one of those.

This would prevent splatfests since skaters would be less inclined to include planned falls or even jumps they rarely land (like Trusova's 4S, Kolyada's 4ltz, Messing's 4ltz, etc...) if the cost is that high.

It's nothing new, it used to be this way for decades until the last few years when quads started to become a thing and judges started to reward even programs with multiple falls.

I dont think "western" commentators or Feds would mind so much if it was "western" skaters winning this way.

There is an unmistakable bias there
 
Trusova's long and free program will balance out sooner or later. For this season, up to and including the World Championships, I see no reason for her to change the layout drastically.

Quad quads is an immense feat, which fills her with pride and ambition. Aleksandra is able to thrown them cleanly and only needs more practice and experience in setting them up properly, dividing her powers over the long program. This weekend she was slightly under the weather, hence the falls.

Aleksandra's legs and butt are solid muscle, look at her running towards that pet store in the Kelowna feature report from 1tv.ru, their bulk and mass will cushion her falls before she slams her thighbone or femur's head on the ice. Being so young still and having overcome the natural fear of falling and hurting herself, she doesn't even seem to be bothered by falling. Though her coaches will probably tell her otherwise ....

After World Championships, her competitive season is essentially over, and she can do these shows in Japan etc where demands and loads are lighter, allowing her to rest and heal any bruises and sore spots left. And of course already planning tech and program content for the next season. Depending on her growth, in height, weight and femininity, changes will be made, quads will be retained, dropped or switched for other elements under the current rules. I sense the ambition to score a 100 points in TES will remain the driving force behind any decision over program content, for the 'competitors' aren't resting either.

About cultural bias and preference:

And yes, there is a certain cultural bias or preference in figure skating artistry: the Western European classical ballet roots. All these far Eastern federations hire expensive 'western' choreographers and music cutters to please this 'standard'.

Now, imagine the scenario Brasil wants to do well in figure skating, and creates it's own Latin style skating school with all those catchy dance rhythms, or Jamaica with reggae rhythms? How would the established order react to this? How will the judges evaluate the most subjective PE, IN to images and music almost alien to them?

From what I have seen of domestic skating events in Japan, the skaters skate to 'western' music in front of our eyes, while they skate to 'traditional' music closer to their own culture in domestic events. Even the images are different, no need for expensive European or American choreographers there.

PS: I'd love to see samba, rhumba and reggae routines, or more of some of the routines to Far Eastern music.
 
I tend to think that choreographers have their own style more than coaches? I adore Rohene Ward, for example, and he has done choreo with many different coaches, but almost every skating fan would recognize a Rohene program.

I would love to see him do choreo for any of the Russian ladies. :)

Possibly, however in Russia quite a few skaters get programs from the inhouse choreographer, who is a part of a coaching team, it's probably true for the vast majority of russian skaters.
A russian skater getting a choreo outside of their rink is not that common.

But aside from that point, I would attribute more credit to the coach, than there's right now if I'm honest.
The coach can help to choose the right choreographer for the skater, the right program, they will keep polishing and working on details together with the skater.
 
New Interview with Orser in Sport Express Newspaper

https://www.sport-express.ru/figure...oy-na-chempionat-rossii-1611544/?daysBefore=7


- What goals will you set for yourself and Eugenia at the championship of Russia?

“We will just continue what we do.” I would be glad to see the same skating from Zhenya in Krasnoyarsk as here - in short and free programs. It would be wonderful, and most importantly - it is in our power.

Of course, it would be nice if she could immediately get to the national team, and we would not have to try to qualify through any other tournament, as it was last season. Although it is wonderful, she got a second chance and took advantage of it. But I do not think that we will be aiming at any particular place.

It seems that 3A ( Aleksandr Lakernik, Aleksandr Kogan and Aleksandr Gorshkov) are preparing a new scandal.

There will be something to talk about))))))

Wait I'm confused? It seems like Brian O is merely saying it's be nice for Zhenya Med to be able to make the World Team, not that he's saying she has to be.

I don't think he's suggesting that the Russian Figure Skating Fed just put her right in the team, no questions asked.
 
I dont think "western" commentators or Feds would mind so much if it was "western" skaters winning this way.

There is an unmistakable bias there

Remember, Johnny is the skater who got into trouble with the US Fed for wearing a Russia jacket at a comp. Johnny could care less if the Russian ladies win everything, so that old canard won’t hold with him.

And there are other disciplines, :biggrin: if Johnny loves the West so much, his commentary on Jason sure doesn’t show it:)
 
Remember, Johnny is the skater who got into trouble with the US Fed for wearing a Russia jacket at a comp. Johnny could care less if the Russian ladies win everything, so that old canard won’t hold with him.

And there are other disciplines, :biggrin: if Johnny loves the West so much, his commentary on Jason sure doesn’t show it:)

I wasnt specifically referring to Johnny

Johnny comes across as quite catty in general with his comments, he's not afraid to throw shade that's for sure.

Some other commentators... a bit biased
 
I dont think "western" commentators or Feds would mind so much if it was "western" skaters winning this way.

There is an unmistakable bias there

For sure, and envy too.

To some extent i can even understand them.

Now granted not all western coaches think like that, we shouldn't generalize but it's a narrative you'll hear more of it especially at that congress in 2020.
 
For sure, and envy too.

To some extent i can even understand them.

Now granted not all western coaches think like that, we shouldn't generalize but it's a narrative you'll hear more of it especially at that congress in 2020.

But it's a false narrative.

And dismissing criticism as envy, with no proof, when in fact it could just be criticism. :shrug:

No one will convince me, without absolute proof (not "oh Country X wins so much and they all hate us cause they ain't us" because that's not proof) that it's jealousy, and I don't think I'm going to convince anyone who wants to believe it, so....

:bed:
 
Translation error, it was she, but my comment has already been erased by his "followers" Sad that the same is repeat of last year's exhibition of russian nationals.
Didn't you listen? She was made captain for the gala in he morning! Which means she skates as first in line at the finale. She was chosen, get this through your head! I would expect all of you in here to think first or get all the facts if you against to shoot against a certain skater.[emoji2356]
 
But it's a false narrative.

And dismissing criticism as envy, with no proof, when in fact it could just be criticism. :shrug:

No one will convince me, without absolute proof (not "oh Country X wins so much and they all hate us cause they ain't us" because that's not proof) that it's jealousy, and I don't think I'm going to convince anyone who wants to believe it, so....

:bed:

But we see it all the time in various sports and outside of sports too.
Success breeds envy, jealousy and an irrational desire to bring those successful ones down
 
Didn't you listen? She was made captain for the gala in he morning! Which means she skates as first in line at the finale. She was chosen, get this through your head! I would expect all of you in here to think first or get all the facts if you against to shoot against a certain skater.[emoji2356]

I find your posts to be a bit aggressive. Can you please tag down?
 
Somehow I don't think the rules will change much.

The overwhelming evidence of viewership suggests this ladies revolution is very well supported.

The ISU are interested in the growth of the sport not the outcries of the minority who want to limit that

The media is a big part of all this.

Here in Sweden we only get to see two competitions on TV. Europeans and Worlds. Last year at Europeans the media only wrote about the fact that "the three best ladies from Russia aren't here", citing the fact that 3A swept the RusNats but couldn't go to Euros.
 
I find your posts to be a bit aggressive. Can you please tag down?
Well if some in herewouldt shoot at every possible moment at a certain person , because yes to make her look bad again for something that is not her fault because beeing choose as captain for the gala means beeing first in that finale line up. To try to again bring people here up against her when nothing is wrong with her beeing the first in line, and then even still standing by her accusation even when I and others told her that it was her job beeing first in that line , that for me is a no go, but then again nothing will ever change in this thread, nothing I mean why do I even bother
 
Interesting discussion this about technical vs artistry.

For me these things mix. I tend to like technical skaters the most, but there always needs to be some kind of artistry in there. I also think that if you do the technical bits good it makes it artistic to me. One of the things I love about Zagitova is when she does her 3Lz3Lo combo perfectly. It is so beautiful to watch. That combo alone won her the Olympic gold for me. And I've watched Shcherbakova's long program from Lombardia and Skate America many many times because I think they are so beautiful with the amazing tech it has.

I have yet to warm up to Trusova, she still lacks in the artistry department imo, but she is getting there. And her tech is amazing.

For me, this is also a masterpiece.

In my opinion, a person who can say at least one word of criticism about this does not understand anything in beauty and simply does not have a taste.
One of the best programs of the year. And nobody will repeat Anna’s performance. The program "sat down" on her like a well-tailored dress.
Nothing can be added or decreased.
I can’t even imagine that program can "mature" by the end of the season.
Everything is perfect.
 
I wasnt specifically referring to Johnny

Johnny comes across as quite catty in general with his comments, he's not afraid to throw shade that's for sure.

Some other commentators... a bit biased

Errrr, there is plenty of bias sauce to go round both the goose and gander here, y'know.
 
But it's a false narrative.

And dismissing criticism as envy, with no proof, when in fact it could just be criticism. :shrug:

No one will convince me, without absolute proof (not "oh Country X wins so much and they all hate us cause they ain't us" because that's not proof) that it's jealousy, and I don't think I'm going to convince anyone who wants to believe it, so....

:bed:

Are you really trying to deny that detractors throw insults at Trusova that go well beyond "just criticism"?

"Fake champion", "Circus act", "robot", "ew" and worse are all word for word things I've seen written about her. These go further than just criticism, they come from a place of envy. Where else would it come from? Maybe some people give "just criticism", but it is ridiculous of you to claim that you know that everything said against her is just criticism, when clearly many "fans" of figure skating go beyond this. But yup, "false narrative". And yet you go complaining about the harsh things said against Evgenia, but I guess you turn blind when innapropriate insults are said about Trusova. No, of course anything said against Trusova is "just criticism". Of course. :slink:
 
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