2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Mathman]

But talking about WC is completely different story...
Three rookeies and no seasoned hand?

I really don't see that there is any decision to make. Send your three best and let the chips fall as they may. To me, if you start playing mind games you just end up outsmarting yourself.

The three As finished 1,2,3 at the Grand Prix Final and at the Russian Championship. What's to decide?

 

[Edwin]

I have been having this mix of fatalism and optimism for a while, and I am afraid to say it. Now you talked it out, and I feel a little relieved, because I am not the only one with this thought. Thank you so much, and Forgive me.

However, we are no Sasha. Watching Eteri/Danill/Dudakov all sitting together with Sasha in Kiss&Cry after the program, I believe they will take good care of her and produce wonderful results!

I have no doubt about that. The 'Wonder Years' are one of the most important and valuable phases in a person's development, and these skaters have a very special quality of character. Aleksandra and any other young athlete competing at this level live a life we cannot imagine for ourselves.

Anyway, everybody is in their way home from Krasnoyarsk or has already arrived and will celebrate New Year together with their family and loved ones. Many warm wishes and for the young ones a heap presents will lie waiting under the tree.

 

[Scott512]

I'm pretty sure he got the host spot before Nebelhorn and that probably was to get the second one at NHK (and to get a SB)

I'm just saying, it's not over yet, there are still chances for these skaters if they can get challengers nd make a case for GP spots next season or just the host spot.

There are a number of skaters who disappointed this season in the GP and most likely will lose their spots: Sotskova for sure, Sakhanovich and Konstantinova probably, Samodurova maybe will get another chance.

Sofia may get one that would be lucky the other three are toast and should be.

Well, hate to break it to you but there will most likely come a time when one of the 3A will want to switch to another coach. It‘s insanely hard to have two direct rivals at the same rink, with the same coach and it works in very few instances (Hanyu and Fernandez being one but that was a truly unique case). Not to mention three girls, who, at one point will all be capable of winning the biggest prize. It works at the moment because stakes aren‘t so high and they are still very young but even now we‘ve seen hurt feelings and tears. I admittedly kind of like this whole 3A business, the thought of them being close friends and competitors at the same time and all that. But they won‘t be 3A forever, they will want to be Alexandra Trusova, Aliona Kostornaya and Anna Shcherbakova. And I don‘t know if keeping them at the same rink then, when they‘ve matured mentally, will work. Actually, I‘m pretty sure that it won‘t. Just saying.



They‘re 14, as far as I know. Sasha and Anna are 15, Aliona 16. You need to be 15 by a certain date before you‘re allowed to debut as a senior but I always forget which one. I believe Sinitsyna (and Kanysheva) will be old enough for senior next year, though. No idea about Frolova.

These three will stay together past the next Olympics. These are great girls talented girls and smart girls and they know anyone who leaves eteri immediately loses 15 points off their totals. Maybe if Alyiona was really as smart as we think she isbecause she wants to be a neurosurgeon she should somehow convince Anna to go to Elena Buyanova. Fluture there is no bitterness between these girls. It's very much like it was between Zhenya and Alina only these three girls are actually closer so closer friends and their closer in age with more in common. But I will say it was heartbreaking saying Sasha cry yesterday.

Ignatov first got only the host spot. Then he won a CS event, which, according to the rules, enabled him to be a replacement for NHK.

Of course Anastasia and others may be in a similar situation but winning an early CS event may be a tall order because of the presence of somebody like one of the 3A/Rika/Liza/Zhenya.

Anastasia Guliakova may be assigned to some Challengers, but I'm not so sure that for example Ksenia Tsibinova will. Coach Davydov wanted her to get one this season (which means they were willing to pay for it), but she got two events that didn't count for the SB while CS spots went unused.

Not to mention that Anastasia Gubanova – 9th at nationals and with a top 24 SB score – didn't get any Challenger either.

Gubanova was badly underscored at Russian Nationals last year and finished 9th and a Russian Nationals the year before where she finished fifth and gotten nothing from those two performances from the Federation. So Guliakova should be aware of that and hope she gets the break naastya1 never got. To a lot of people the Federation cares about 4A only. But there are more girls coming so the Federation better be prepared. Absolute disgrace that Nastya1 not only got passed over for a Grand Prix event for girls who bombed she didn't get a freaking Challenger this year. Remember serafima got a Grand Prix event this year and didn't even qualify for Nationals last year so I ask again what since does the Federation make with their decisions? They don't follow a pattern they do whatever the heck they want. Good luck to Guliakova. She will need it.

 

[DenissVFan]

Alisa Fedichkina and her young students: https://www.instagram.com/p/B5xC4ZCIMCf/?igshid=163cos16vj0ao

 

[Arbitrary]

What seasoned hand would you send? Konstantinova?

Tuktamisheva or Zagitova. I mean RusFed would be more than happy to send.
I still prefer 3A.

Edit:
As it was stated in the Russian news source the decision to send 1-2 to EC was accepted well before the RusNats. The 3rd entry has been decided just today and it was Trusova on the basis of "others are 20+ points below". So it wasn't for granted.

 

[Mishaminion]

Tuktamisheva or Zagitova. I mean RusFed would be more than happy to send.
I still prefer 3A.

Liza hasn't got the scoring potential (her layout is still a big What the #$$@) and Alina is not competing at all this season. Neither is Zhenya now.

Nobody else has the scoring potential of the 3A, even with a relatively poor skate.

 

[Scott512]

Alisa Fedichkina and her young students: https://www.instagram.com/p/B5xC4ZCIMCf/?igshid=163cos16vj0ao

She retired? Good Heavens it's such a jungle with a Russian ladies. Alisa what is a very promising skater just a couple years ago.

 

[Amei]

I think this nationals just showed that Sasha probably needs a 4 quad program to beat Anna and Alena, since she looses on PCS and Anna already has 3 quads. With a 3 quad program, Sasha can maximize GEO, but that doesn’t give a lot of room for error.

Well she could work on improving her non-jump elements and second score and that would help her scores. But alas we've heard her say she loves to jump and her coaches say as much so it seems like while there have been some improvements it's clear that what she focuses on is the jumps in practice.

Though watching her skates this season, let's give a shout-out to her ankles for not snapping in 2; she's had several falls in competition and practices that looks like her ankles got bent up and put a lot of pressure on them and they are still holding together.

Despite the grave results for Sasha for the last two majors the RusFed decided not to enforce the summary execution and give her another chance.
Doing good in EC may restart her career.
I'm happy and grateful to RusFed.

And I'm only afraid failing at Europeans will throw her deep down below.
Looks like a psychological problem to me. She knows she can do not only better, she literally can do anything best male skaters do at their best day.

I think this is a little dramatic; yes she has had some ugly jumps that have caused her to place below her 2 teammates but even with her issues she's still finishing in 3rd well above the rest of the competition. Had Tuktamysheva not been so shaky in her FS at Nationals and had more wisely replaced her solo 3f or 3Lo for the 4T vs. the 3A for the 4T the perhaps Trusova would have something to worry about with getting replaced for Worlds if she had a similar showing at Europeans that she did at Nationals. But Tuktamysheva was equally shaky, is still doing a non-competitive layout in relation to her competition from Russia and PCS-wise is pretty similar to Trusova; so Tuktamysheva is still not really a reasonable replacement for Trusova if the Fed wanted to do that.

At the GPF she finished 17 points above Rika and at Nationals she finished 22 points above the 4th place finisher. Its worth noting that Rika is really the strongest threat to a Russian sweep at Worlds, so that 17 point win over Rika is a big deal; if she had barely gotten 3rd over Rika I could see the Fed telling her team, let her go full speed at Europeans (since there's not really a viable threat to the Russians even if Trusova skates her FS like she did at Nationals), but at Worlds her layout needs to be smarter to secure the sweep.

 

[halulupu]

Forgot to mention this in my larger posting on this topic, but this is exactly what the SE panel discussed: Trusova is the trailblazer, the 'hare' in athletics who leads others to the finish but 'sacrifices' herself along the way so the others might make it.

She was the first doing quads, wants her name in the record books as the first in everything, but might never reap the rewards of her efforts, neither in Golds nor in actual recognition as being the 'innovator', but rather as the 'destroyer' of ladies figure skating. Time will tell how she will be remembered and appreciated when she has finished her career.

Thinking about this makes me sad, really sad esp. remembering her desperate tears yesterday which had me choking as well, so I will all the more cherish every past, present and future competition with Aleksandra, because the likes of her (and Anna, Alyona too) I will not see again in my lifetime.

I fear she will end up as the midori ito of her time: athleticly way a head of her time, but never really won anything.

 

[Amei]

Thinking about this makes me sad, really sad esp. remembering her desperate tears yesterday which had me choking as well, so I will all the more cherish every past, present and future competition with Aleksandra, because the likes of her (and Anna, Alyona too) I will not see again in my lifetime.

It was hard to watch her come off the ice and really halfway through her skate, you could see her face was in shock/upset with how she was skating.

I agree with you that what these 3, Kostornaia/Shcherbakova/Trusova is historic and probably something that won't be seen again in our lifetimes for 3 new seniors to sweep gold at every event they are in as individuals and possibly sweep 1-2-3 every competition where they all 3 compete. I mean Europeans doesn't look like it should be difficult for them to sweep even if they skate like they did at the GPF, with Trusova and Shcherbakova having mistakes. Worlds - only Rika really looks like a viable threat and she's still dealing with recovering from injury, she's new to the 4S and the triple axel is still giving her some issues.

 

[NAOTMAA]

It feels like Trusova wants to win so bad she tries to achieve it by throwing as much as she can against the wall as possible. And when it doesn't work she wants to throw even more (adding a 3A or even more quads).

I don't think that's a good strategy. Not only is it dangerous to her well being but it also shows she doesn't understand why she's not winning. She already has the goods she just needs to do it clean and continue to improve on the other stuff.

She's a young girl and her team need to be responsible and have a good talk with her instead of letting her do as she wants. They need to clam her down and make her see that adding even more isn't the answer.

 

[Mathman]

I fear she will end up as the midori ito of her time: athleticly way a head of her time, but never really won anything.

1989 World Championship (silver in 1990), Olympic silver in 1992, 9 Grand Prix golds (this was before there was a Grand Prix ), 9 National championships. Plus she remains in the hearts of figure skating fans all over the world 30 years later (and she can still do a double Axel. :yes: )

 

[Mathman]

Well (Trusova) could work on improving her non-jump elements and second score and that would help her scores.

All she has to do is land her quads and add rack up the points.

 

[Amei]

All she has to do is land her quads and add rack up the points.

My reply was to a post stating that Nationals proved Trusova needed to have 4 quads to beat Anna and Kostornaia.

 

[Jontor]

My reply was to a post stating that Nationals proved Trusova needed to have 4 quads to beat Anna and Kostornaia.

Doing the math

If Trusova landed her 4F, 4Lz, 4T with +3 GOE she would have scored 41,60.
Instead she scored 8,47. Difference 33,13 points.

Add that to her final score she would have gotten 259,47.
Kostornaia scored 259,83 and Shcherbakova 261,87.

It's extremely close between the three of them.

 

[dhjh811]

Yes because one self proclaim expert on what good skating looks like should become standard. Alyona owes a lot of her fame because her skating is style reminiscent of she who must not be named arguably a much better version of that skater. Not much a fan of that skater honestly but I like Alyona. She just adds another version to classical that elevates it from just a cold and pretty movements exercise to something that connects with the audience.

Who? I have a feeling who you're talking about, but I don't want to make assumptions

 

[renebaebae]

I don't think it's that close. If they all go all clean, I think Sasha can get away with 3 quads (2 quad lutzes and a quad flip) and still beat Kostornaia as long as she's clean as a whistle. The judges were giving Kostornaia some ridiculous GOEs here esp for specific jumps that I don't think she'll get if it was an international comp.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

I really like Anya, but this Firebird program is not 10 points in PCS better than Sasha’s GOT. Anya herself should get high IN and PE scores, but as the latter half of her FS is not matched to the music in any way, I wouldn’t give it higher than an 8.50 in IN (since the first half is actually pretty lined up). I’d put Anya’s PCS around 68.5 and Sasha’s around 64. With only a 4.5 difference in PCS, I don’t see why Anya can afford to land two clean quads and fall once and still beat Alyona (GPF), while Sasha must land all of her quads to win.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

You know, it’s weird... I know Alyona’s scores here were pretty inflated and yet, I can’t seem to argue against them. I know she’ll never get anywhere near 260 total, but I can’t help but feel like she should. I mean her elements are deserving of really high GOEs and she has amazing artistry. Even though she had a bad landing on the 3F+3T in the FS, it did still deserve +2 or +3. The -2/-3 for a bad landing in the ISU handbook does not mean that any jump with a bad landing should get -2/-3, but rather you should take -2/-3 off of the GOE the jump has racked up. So for example, Alyona’s 3F+3T checked off all the bullets meaning +5, if you take off 2 or 3 that leaves +3 or +2 GOE. In theory, her score is totally reasonable. Of course, if she really did get 170 in the FS internationally, that would be bad, since you know all the Rika fans will literally go insane.

 

[pearly]

As for failing at Euros and psychological problems... why can‘t we just call it her being human instead? I know I am guilty too, saying she would be unbeatable at the beginning of the season. Well, turns out she wasn‘t and that‘s okay. Maybe we should all get our expectations in check. She‘s a girl, insanely talented, but still just a girl. She can fail like everybody else. This whole business of “she can compete against men“, she can beat them and whatever.... why is her success only measured by how well she would stack up against a bunch of dudes who are often 10 years her senior? Why don‘t we celebrate what she herself can do instead of always asking here (and asking at press conferences) whether she would “like to compete against the guys“? You can all hate me for this but we have two divisions in this sport for a reason. And Sasha‘s success should be celebrated for what it is and not only how well she would hypothetically do against the male skaters. Let her jump side by side quad toes with Hanyu at the gala, alright. That‘s adorable and admirable and just fun. But these insane expectations for her to be unbeatable and the quad machine and whatnot, need to stop.

YES, thank you. And let me also add - if these girls deliver a clean program with a few quads, the first thing someone will do is compare their score to the men's event and state how they would have won there as well. But god forbid they get an edge or UR call on their jump and someone dares to make a comparison with a male skater - before you know it there's a mob asking how one dares compare a teenage girl with an adult male.

Set your standard, people. Either you compare or you don't. Comparing only when they do well and sheltering when they make a mistake is sexist and implies they should only be treated as equals if they do well.

Also, would they only and really prove their worth by winning a men's competition?