2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Scott512]

Haven‘t posted much recently but maybe that‘s Eteri‘s problem then, not Mariah‘s. And Eteri’s coaching Morisi who will not be the next Nathan Chen (who, by the way, happens to be coached by the very same Raf) either so idk what you’re on about. Mariah, btw, has been doing very well this season, medaling at both GPs, winning a Challenger... yes, she‘s not Alina and, as you so astutely pointed out, will never be, but in my book that‘s totally fine. People are different, as are their careers. She‘s doing well for herself and Raf helped her fulfill her potential. Should everybody who‘s not likely to have Alina‘s success just give up skating? Alright then.

Raf makes questionable comments sometimes but I found nothing wrong with this interview, he‘s allowed to have an opinion and whether his students win against Eteri‘s or not has nothing to do with it. I‘m pretty sure he doesn‘t expect Mariah or Marin to do that, he‘s helping them to become better at their own pace, like any good coach should. I find it sadly ironic that every time someone utters an opinion that‘s different to yours, the reaction‘s just dismissive. As if their opinion was worthless just because they don‘t have a Trusova in their team.

That‘s my two cents and now I‘ll leave again and focus on looking forward to Europeans. Thank you, btw, to everyone who made suggestions for gifts for the girls. I like the idea about getting a dragon for Sasha and hope to find a cute one.

questionable comments? He does that often.

I am glad Raf does not coach any of the top Russian girls. Why don't they ever go to this man? The dude talks way too much about girls who will never work with. The guy probably should have his own talk show or something. He is not Eteris class as a coach. But good luck to him none the less.

 

[oatmella]

An exception that only confirms the rule. Tutberidze success is systematical. Nathan is the only one and I don't see him to last long.
About Kwan. Oh my, I would absolutely love to watch how she would compete against Trusova right now. Or at the recent Championship of Russia. Could she be a lucky one to climb into top-10 there?

I do agree that Eteri’s success is systematical. But it’s certainly not dependent on the longevity of her students. Not sure how you can compare the length of any of her students competitive careers to Nathan’s, and have his come out as one to not “last long”.

 

[katymay]

Get back to me after Trusova wins five world championships, LOL.

For me, how many world championships a skater wins has little to do with how great they were or are. Some skaters benefited by a weak field for a number of years. (Yeah, I mean Kwan). Others may have won 1, or even NO World Championships, and yet for me they are in a field of some of the most exciting skaters to ever compete. (Osmond for example. Or Midori Ito. Tonya Harding. ). Even if no one from 3A ever wins a 'Worlds', they have still left a HUGE mark on the sport. As Alina did. (Don Quixote program)

 

[eterialskater]

If they are more resilient, then because the competition is no way so fierce and the field is not so full of exceptional ladies as in Russia, which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans

But from the perspective of personal capabilities and performances, you can see japanese, US and other ladies highly struggling after 18. Just look on this season, in GP we've seen many ladies from those countries just recently considered huge talents or even prodigies, who had much more difficulties than Alina, Zhenya etc. In the US Karen Chen and even Megan Wessengerg were once seen as hopes of US skating. Japan? Wakaba Higuchi, Marin Honda, Mako Yamashita and others showed huge problems this season, and Satoko Miahara and Kaori Sakamoto have not even medalled in Japan Nationals. Troubles with technique, with Kaori openly confessed troubles with motivation, so it is not like those problems go only behind russian girls, they are everywhere and often much higher.

Yes, in some countries ladies have the benefit that they can allow to take a break a season or more to put themselves together in terms of physical or mental health without risking there will be immediate replacement. But again, that's nobody's fault. You can't go to a girl who wants to train for a top skater and say "sorry, we have someone who we wanna make a long-term star, so we don't want to raise some concurence for her." Though, it seems that some people probably imagine this, like "someone needs more personal care and attitude" and so on. But why introducing the system with protected prima donnas, I like that everyone has equal opportunity and it depends on talent and not on "this is not the right time for bringing another star when we have one already."

It may sound cruel but in sport the sport should decide, not the favoritism. After all you can see it even in Alina's approach, when she said that she doesn't want to be chosen to Euros or Worlds just by coaches council. That's what someone who respects the sport says.

Obviously Russian skaters' avid critics love to conveniently gloss over the fact that no one in Russia is safe from being upstage by someone better and younger after a couple of seasons. Not even an Olympic and World Champion is safe. After all there are only a three spots to fill and competition is not exactly mince meat. Alina can wipe out every single National competition outside Russia except for Japan where Kihira could get gold. Sadly she does not have the luck that certain skaters have who can waltz into their Nationals after a year of not competing and be crowned champion. I take these faux concern for the short careers of Russian skaters with a wry smile.

 

[Amei]

I do agree that Eteri’s success is systematical. But it’s certainly not dependent on the longevity of her students. Not sure how you can compare the length of any of her students competitive careers to Nathan’s, and have his come out as one to not “last long”.

It depends on the skater really - if a skater had to choose between 1-3 years on top winning most everything and then retiring due to lack of motivation/ injuries/superseded by more talented skaters removing your shot at major titles, or skate for 5-7 seasons with minimal major international success, if any. And that's not an exclusive comparison between Rafael and Eteri but really Eteri and pretty much every other coach. Eteri's hardcore and she's proven that if a skater's willing to do the work and push the technical boundaries farther than any other skater then she'll help her skaters win, but that has yet to be proven that it's an environment that people can thrive in for years and years on the senior circuit.

 

[Mathman]

For me, how many world championships a skater wins has little to do with how great they were ...

Well, the question was not who was great, but who had more success, Alenandra Trusova or Michelle Kwan. No one can possibly deny that Kwan had a successful career, however weak the competition might have been (Irina Slutsyaya, Maria Butryskaya, Sasha Cohen, etc.)

Naturallry I wish Alexandra a career filled with many successful accomplishments as well.

 

[Scott512]

For me, how many world championships a skater wins has little to do with how great they were or are. Some skaters benefited by a weak field for a number of years. (Yeah, I mean Kwan). Others may have won 1, or even NO World Championships, and yet for me they are in a field of some of the most exciting skaters to ever compete. (Osmond for example. Or Midori Ito. Tonya Harding. ). Even if no one from 3A ever wins a 'Worlds', they have still left a HUGE mark on the sport. As Alina did. (Don Quixote program)

So so true. Whichever of the 2 of 3A does not win worlds this year they are much better than many ladies world champions. Another great point Katy is about commpatriot competition. Many greats had virtually no domestic competition for years. Not the case with the Russian ladies.

 

[Scott512]

Anna Shcherbakova's Christmas wishes: https://twitter.com/ISU_Figure/status/1214597416499994637 , from the Modena show?.

Orthodox Christmas is today, January 7.

Merry Christmas to Anna! :agree: Anna ballerina has won me over. I tried not to pay much attention to her at first as I preferred Alina Alena and Nastya. Anna just does everything righton and off the ice and is impossibly well behaved. And she mixes artistry musicality and technical skills better than anyone in ladies figure skating all while looking like a Bolshoi ballerina. And nothing seems to bother her. Annas personality is very uplifting just like it is with all of 4A. Some might say they have very different personalities from their coach.

 

[Figure 8's]

Alexandra is only 15 years old. She has a few years to get her Gold Medals. Kwan did her winning under the 6.0 system She would really have to step it up to compete with the Skaters today. Olympic gold is the dream of every skater. It is what they strive for. There is a World Champion every year. I can name every Olympic Gold Medalist but have a hard time remembering who won Worlds the last couple of years.

 

[composer]

How did Kwan even get dragged into this thread?! How long before Sonja Henie gets here?

 

[Bluediamonds09]

When is junior nationals?

I’m so excited!!!! I think the junior worlds team is wide open. Valieva was injured earlier, is she better now and able to go? Frolova was great at seniors, will that success carry into junior nationals? Usacheva isn’t consistent. Tarakanova isn’t a federation favorite, she may get lowballed. Shulskaya is a bit dull. Sinitsina is rumored to be having problems with her coach (is this true?).

 

[flanker]

When is junior nationals?

I’m so excited!!!! I think the junior worlds team is wide open. Valieva was injured earlier, is she better now and able to go? Frolova was great at seniors, will that success carry into junior nationals? Usacheva isn’t consistent. Tarakanova isn’t a federation favorite, she may get lowballed. Shulskaya is a bit dull. Sinitsina is rumored to be having problems with her coach (is this true?).

Junior Nationals will be held in Saransk, from 4th to 8th february. Info in english on wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Russian_Figure_Skating_Championships#Junior_Championships

 

[JSM]

So so true. Whichever of the 2 of 3A does not win worlds this year they are much better than many ladies world champions. Another great point Katy is about commpatriot competition. Many greats had virtually no domestic competition for years. Not the case with the Russian ladies.

I’m flabbergasted by this thread. Of course jump difficulty has increased over time. Someone from the 90s would not be close to the jump content of today. Someone from the 70s would not be near the jump content of the 90s. Everyone should be judged by the era they are skating in, not one decades apart. Jumps, spins, and skating skills have changed. Techniques, equipment, aesthetics, and coaching has evolved.

And it will again.

 

[macy]

I’m flabbergasted by this thread. Of course jump difficulty has increased over time. Someone from the 90s would not be close to the jump content of today. Someone from the 70s would not be near the jump content of the 90s. Everyone should be judged by the era they are skating in, not one decades apart. Jumps, spins, and skating skills have changed. Techniques, equipment, aesthetics, and coaching has evolved.

And it will again.

i was just going to write all of this. it's such a pointless conversation to have...it's like the arguments over who was better for winning 2 OGMs, Dick Button or Hanyu. you just can't make comparisons because they were both the best of their eras. Kwan was the best of her era. just because the sport has progressed and changed drastically since then doesn't take away from any of her accomplishments, or any other world or olympic champion.

 

[Scott512]

I’m flabbergasted by this thread. Of course jump difficulty has increased over time. Someone from the 90s would not be close to the jump content of today. Someone from the 70s would not be near the jump content of the 90s. Everyone should be judged by the era they are skating in, not one decades apart. Jumps, spins, and skating skills have changed. Techniques, equipment, aesthetics, and coaching has evolved.

And it will again.

That is the case.

 

[Albus]

I guess we're getting into things that are not very easy to discuss.

Let's just say that i'm against any sort of censorship, freedom speech should always be guaranteed for the journalists even when they talk nonsense.

You can obviously criticize or denounce the journalist, ask for compensation even, and Tutberidze has so many fans that people would respond to it, but you shouldn't remove a person from his/her job. But that's me talking with the laws i have here in Italy, i understand it's different in Russia.



If i remember correctly she said in the interview on TSL that she tried Figure skating for months with even a coach to understand the fundamentals.

That's at least something.

However it was pretty easy for you to trash the whole country thinking moreover using fake or stereotypical information. You absolutely should sack a biased journalist from your agency if she spreading lies and bias for years due to her personal motivation, and your readers constantly ask you to remove her. This is how freedom of speech works. Of cause if your agency doesn't want to flush its own reputation down to the tube. Freedom of speech is a responsibility, not carte blanche on lies and propaganda.

 

[[email protected]]

I’m flabbergasted by this thread. Of course jump difficulty has increased over time. Someone from the 90s would not be close to the jump content of today. Someone from the 70s would not be near the jump content of the 90s. Everyone should be judged by the era they are skating in, not one decades apart. Jumps, spins, and skating skills have changed. Techniques, equipment, aesthetics, and coaching has evolved.

And it will again.

There is no point to say that Michelle Kwan would not get to Top-10 of Russian Nationals as her technical level was way inferior to what is normal now. She is a legend from a different era and should be compared with Slutskaya, Tara, etc.

On the other hand, there is no point to say that "queens of the past" were "real figure skaters" vs. today's "jumping beans that can last for a couple of seasons only". This inevitably provokes the first statement that those "queens" were technically nowhere near Alina, 3A, Kamila and whoever will undoubtedly appear during the years to come.

 

[JazzUp]

... but you shouldn't remove a person from his/her job. But that's me talking with the laws i have here in Italy, i understand it's different in Russia.

No, this is you spreading an idiotic rumour about Eteri; has nothing to do with laws in Russia or Italy.

 

[lpt]

I guess we're getting into things that are not very easy to discuss.
Let's just say that i'm against any sort of censorship, freedom speech should always be guaranteed for the journalists even when they talk nonsense.

You can obviously criticize or denounce the journalist, ask for compensation even, and Tutberidze has so many fans that people would respond to it, but you shouldn't remove a person from his/her job. But that's me talking with the laws i have here in Italy, i understand it's different in Russia.

Italian Journalist Fired for Saying ‘Newspapers Care Nothing for the Truth’
Italian journalist fired by crime boss
Italian sports journalist is fired
I admire people who could survive in a dangerous places like Italy (with all kind of of it's mafia, camorra, ndrangheta etc.)

 

[halulupu]

Italian Journalist Fired for Saying ‘Newspapers Care Nothing for the Truth’
Italian journalist fired by crime boss
Italian sports journalist is fired
I admire people who could survive in a dangerous places like Italy.

U use breitbard as a source, really?[emoji85]