2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Supernovaimplosion]

I liked Sasha's program. It was nice seeing something different from her, and it's good to see skaters try something different. I agree that I'm not sure this is her style though.
But this couldn't possibly be a new sp, could it? Maybe next year? If has the structure

 

[brakes]

Vazhnova https://youtu.be/gyjjT2-6A1k

Of course, she skated great yesterday! :agree:

I just haven't get accustomed to watching her yet.

 

[Alex65]

I liked Sasha's program. It was nice seeing something different from her, and it's good to see skaters try something different. I agree that I'm not sure this is her style though.
But this couldn't possibly be a new sp, could it? Maybe next year? If has the structure

Given what lpt pointed out:

Sasha today and in June 2019 -
http://prntscr.com/r84xt6

I will assume that it was SP for this season that they did not use and made another, which is now the mountain King. So little information about this, have to build hypotheses

 

[flanker]

I liked Sasha's program. It was nice seeing something different from her, and it's good to see skaters try something different. I agree that I'm not sure this is her style though.
But this couldn't possibly be a new sp, could it? Maybe next year? If has the structure

I would say it was the attempt to present Sasha in a different role in front of the audience, to see how people will like it, how Sasha would fit that role etc. Remember what Daniil has said once, it was something like "it is tempting to portray Aliona always in the role of a princess and Sasha in the role of a fighter but you can't do it all the time, they must be able to do more types of characters."

So, no confusion for me, I consider it useful to try it this way before making something like that in a competition.

 

[PyeongChang2018]

I would say it was the attempt to present Sasha in a different role in front of the audience, to see how people will like it, how Sasha would fit that role etc. Remember what Daniil have said once, it was somthing like "it is tempting to portray Aliona always in the role of a princess and Sasha in the role of a fighter but you can't do it all the time, they must be able to do more types of characters."

So, no confusion for me, I consider it useful to try it this way before making something like that in a competition.

The program that suited Alena best is still her SP from 2017-2018, Dos cadencias sobre "Adiós Nonino"

 

[colormyworld240]

All this talk about Sasha's musicality then lumping musicality with elegance and grace. Not the same thing. Sasha is definitely not a graceful lyrical type. I'd say her styles are upbeat jazz and powerful modern contemporary numbers. You can see this in Kill Bill, Big Spender, and Unstoppable. And it's quite clear to me in the modern dance numbers posted by her team that she does have good musicality. I would love to see a modern short for her next season, she needs to close the gap with her compatriots as much as she can. Even with a 3A, I think she'd still be lagging behind Anna without one based on how they were scored this season and nowhere close to Alena. If they want to try a more elegant piece maybe they should do it in the free but I think they should play to her strengths in the short.

 

[Fluture]

All this talk about Sasha's musicality then lumping musicality with elegance and grace.

Of course musicality isn‘t the same as elegance and grace! I don‘t think anybody said that, though. Or at least I haven’t seen a post lumping the two together.

It‘s just that I‘ve personally never seen any kind of musicality from Sasha. Not from the off-ice dancing, not in her programs, not in the group gala performances. In the group performance today she was wildly off sync as far as I‘ve seen. In the dance numbers she seems to have studied the choreography very thoroughly and carefully so she executes it well. But nothing more than that, nothing that would show she has any deeper understanding of the music itself. I think it might depend on what we define as musicality. For me it‘s this - a deeper, thorough understanding not only of obvious musical cues and accents but the melody, general feel and small details and then the ability to express that with one’s body. For me, Sasha doesn‘t have this. She doesn‘t necessarily need to, though. Interpretation of the music is only one aspect of PCS. If PCS were awarded accordingly to what really is being put out on the ice (which they aren‘t but that‘s, as a whole, a separate issue) she would get low marks in this part of the PCS but could do better at skating skills or performance.

Because she does have the potential to be good at both! Like I said, I think her basic skating skills, the edge work, are better than Anna’s. It’s just that this season, her programs either highlight her weaknesses (like the SP) or have too many quads, which then makes her focus (understandably!) less on the skating itself. With 3 quads though (and even with the falls!) there seemed to be a difference to her general skating quality as she had more time to focus on something other than jumps. And I do think she’s more than just jumps! So, that‘s why I think the basics are all there, it‘s just about finding the right vehicle for her as a skater and a person.

As for the programs themselves: As already mentioned, if she has time to focus on the performance, she is a good entertainer, because she has a special quality about her and the sort of charm that draws people in. Imo, that‘s why programs such as Kill Bill, Big Spender and Unstoppable work for her. People loved her Unstoppable and they didn‘t care one bit that she lacked some kind of deep sensitivity to the music. Because she enjoyed skating, she had energy and enthusiasm and is generally just a powerful and energetic skater. Give her something modern and fun and let her enjoy it. Then her PCS will go up too. Probably not on the same level as Aliona‘s because, tbh, she just isn‘t there but so that her technical advantage will help her win gold again. Anyway, just my two cents.

As for the scoring and technical stuff: Sasha with a 3A and 3-4 quads is very dangerous to Anna and I‘d say would beat Aliona pretty handily on TES and probably overall. The question is just whether she could land that kind of layout cleanly. I don‘t think it‘s the PCS, though, that cost Sasha her victories lately. It‘s that she hasn‘t been performing cleanly whereas Aliona and Anna mostly have.

 

[xcrunningstar]

Aliona's improv skills are great!

 

[Alex65]

Of course musicality isn‘t the same as elegance and grace! I don‘t think anybody said that, though. Or at least I haven’t seen a post lumping the two together.

It‘s just that I‘ve personally never seen any kind of musicality from Sasha. Not from the off-ice dancing, not in her programs, not in the group gala performances. In the group performance today she was wildly off sync as far as I‘ve seen. In the dance numbers she seems to have studied the choreography very thoroughly and carefully so she executes it well.But nothing more than that, nothing that would show she has any deeper understanding of the music itself. I think it might depend on what we define as musicality. For me it‘s this - a deeper, thorough understanding not only of obvious musical cues and accents but the melody, general feel and small details and then the ability to express that with one’s body. For me, Sasha doesn‘t have this. She doesn‘t necessarily need to, though. Interpretation of the music is only one aspect of PCS. If PCS were awarded accordingly to what really is being put out on the ice (which they aren‘t but that‘s, as a whole, a separate issue) she would get low marks in this part of the PCS but could do better at skating skills or performance.

Because she does have the potential to be good at both! Like I said, I think her basic skating skills, the edge work, are better than Anna’s. It’s just that this season, her programs either highlight her weaknesses (like the SP) or have too many quads, which then makes her focus (understandably!) less on the skating itself. With 3 quads though (and even with the falls!) there seemed to be a difference to her general skating quality as she had more time to focus on something other than jumps. And I do think she’s more than just jumps! So, that‘s why I think the basics are all there, it‘s just about finding the right vehicle for her as a skater and a person.

As for the programs themselves: As already mentioned, if she has time to focus on the performance, she is a good entertainer, because she has a special quality about her and the sort of charm that draws people in. Imo, that‘s why programs such as Kill Bill, Big Spender and Unstoppable work for her. People loved her Unstoppable and they didn‘t care one bit that she lacked some kind of deep sensitivity to the music. Because she enjoyed skating, she had energy and enthusiasm and is generally just a powerful and energetic skater. Give her something modern and fun and let her enjoy it. Then her PCS will go up too. Probably not on the same level as Aliona‘s because, tbh, she just isn‘t there but so that her technical advantage will help her win gold again. Anyway, just my two cents.

As for the scoring and technical stuff: Sasha with a 3A and 3-4 quads is very dangerous to Anna and I‘d say would beat Aliona pretty handily on TES and probably overall. The question is just whether she could land that kind of layout cleanly. I don‘t think it‘s the PCS, though, that cost Sasha her victories lately. It‘s that she hasn‘t been performing cleanly whereas Aliona and Anna mostly have.

Try to revisit these moments again.
https://vk.com/alextrusova There are many fan videos from the show. I see no reason for your allegations. She is no worse than the other skaters around her.

 

[Fluture]

Try to revisit these moments again.
https://vk.com/alextrusova There are many fan videos from the show. I see no reason for your allegations. She is no worse than the other skaters around her.

It says I can‘t access the video.

And there are NO allegations whatsoever from me. I was sharing my impressions. Maybe I got a wrong one, I don’t know, it‘s perfectly possible. I saw the video (watched it again on Youtube) and my eyes were drawn to Sasha because she was in the center ice and spotlight.

Overall, though, I don’t understand this indignation. I don’t mean any harm and I like Sasha. But every time someone dares to offer criticism (well, obviously, we‘re talking about criticism not blatant trolling), there’s a huge outcry as if this was pure meanness or some personal agenda. I don’t get this. People are different, they have different skills! So what, Sasha isn’t musical? And? It doesn‘t mean that she is a bad skater or that no one can enjoy her skating, of course not! She has different strengths. She is a great performer, a powerful skater, an amazing person. Interpretation of the music is one part of PCS, one! I don‘t see why it’s wrong to point out her weaknesses when analyzing a program choice, though. Should she be perfect at everything? Well, she‘s just human, she can‘t. Aliona and Anna have weaknesses too and so does everybody else. I think we have too many expectations of perfection from 3A, especially in this thread. But reality obviously is that they aren‘t perfect, they have flaws, as skaters and people. Now, I don‘t know them personally to talk about their personalities and I wouldn‘t want to either but their skating, as long as it’s offered with respect? I don‘t see anything wrong with that. Having flaws doesn‘t make them lesser people or athletes or skaters. It makes them real and human and admirable too, especially since they all work on their flaws daily.

PS: on a lighter, and more shallow note: I like this blue on Sasha. It suits her and looked especially radiant in the gala lights.

 

[Fluture]

Aliona's improv skills are great!

Yeah, I just saw that! Tuned in only for the second half of her program so I didn‘t catch that at first. They didn‘t announce her name for some reason, like they did with the others, just started the music. She didn‘t even have time to skate to the middle of the rink and bow. It definitely caught her off guard, you could see it in her face! But she was able to hide it quickly and perform. She did improvise greatly but I do wonder whether it was one of the reasons her jumps were so off later on.

For comparison:

This is how her SP normally started when she skated it in competition:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lNxG8XPP41M

 

[Autumn Leaves]

Fluture, have you considered the possibility that Sasha herself might have wanted more lyrical and feminine program? She is changing, growing and she surely has her opinions and desires. I remember one interview where she said that she likes wearing makeup, which surprised me, because I had the idea of a focused, result-driven fighter, who couldn‘t care less about makeup and cooking, but she does that as well. Plus, she has fairy tale hair and a tiny & trembling dog, while I would imagine her with a big, fiercely loyal breed. People are not one-dimensional and I am glad they are experimenting and going out of the box. Nothing wrong with trying new styles; it was a good decision.

P.S. and as a mother of a 15-year old, I can tell that they are extremely opinionated, even if wrong, often moody and tough to argue with. I know that elite athletes are not normal teens, but I am sure that even Eteri doesn’t have an easy ride.

 

[Alex65]

It says I can‘t access the video.

And there are NO allegations whatsoever from me. I was sharing my impressions. Maybe I got a wrong one, I don’t know, it‘s perfectly possible. I saw the video (watched it again on Youtube) and my eyes were drawn to Sasha because she was in the center ice and spotlight.

Overall, though, I don’t understand this indignation. I don’t mean any harm and I like Sasha. But every time someone dares to offer criticism (well, obviously, we‘re talking about criticism not blatant trolling), there’s a huge outcry as if this was pure meanness or some personal agenda. I don’t get this. People are different, they have different skills! So what, Sasha isn’t musical? And? It doesn‘t mean that she is a bad skater or that no one can enjoy her skating, of course not! She has different strengths. She is a great performer, a powerful skater, an amazing person. Interpretation of the music is one part of PCS, one! I don‘t see why it’s wrong to point out her weaknesses when analyzing a program choice, though. Should she be perfect at everything? Well, she‘s just human, she can‘t. Aliona and Anna have weaknesses too and so does everybody else. I think we have too many expectations of perfection from 3A, especially in this thread. But reality obviously is that they aren‘t perfect, they have flaws, as skaters and people. Now, I don‘t know them personally to talk about their personalities and I wouldn‘t want to either but their skating, as long as it’s offered with respect? I don‘t see anything wrong with that. Having flaws doesn‘t make them lesser people or athletes or skaters. It makes them real and human and admirable too, especially since they all work on their flaws daily.

PS: on a lighter, and more shallow note: I like this blue on Sasha. It suits her and looked especially radiant in the gala lights.

Yes, this is your personal opinion, and like any opinion, it is worthy of respect. However, I see some hypocrisy in this formulation of the question. You insistently express your opinion at every opportunity, citing a lot of arguments based only on your personal impressions, and you always conclude: Sasha should be demoted to PCS, she will never be even close to this .... even close.
Some users on this forum with the same persistence insist on issues of prerotation, cheating, and other things ... also citing their arguments, often more objective than your conclusions. But it does not find support here basically. Although I, in principle, can understand their motives, I certainly can not approve of them.
You should be aware that many people read this forum. And many form their view on the basis of the information received here. Thanks to you, they receive one-sided, subjective information.
I am not against any objective criticism at all. I am totally for it. But I urge you to know the measure in everything.
Phew a lot of words for me. I apologize if this is OT somewhere.

 

[Fluture]

you always conclude: Sasha should be demoted to PCS, she will never be even close to this .... even close. Thanks to you, they receive one-sided, subjective information.

But this is what I don‘t understand. I don‘t feel like this is close to what I meant to say at all? I don‘t think Sasha is as good overall in PCS as someone like Aliona (yet) but then again, Aliona cannot jump quads, so Sasha wins over her there. Everyone has different strengths, that‘s actually my main point. But that‘s normal, right? World would be boring otherwise and not just the skating one....

As for Sasha, I have repeatedly talked about the fact that her lack of musicality (as I perceive it) should be reflected in one, maximum two aspects of PCS. You see, the problem with PCS right now is that they‘re not separated as they should. So, someone getting an 8 in skating skills, will likely be getting 8 across the boards. It‘s very rare to see someone receive a 7.5 in interpretation but a 9 in transitions for example. In fact, I‘ve never seen anything like that. So, the problem is that, overall, there will be no reflection of what each of the PCS categories actually means. With Sasha, it‘s the same. She‘s getting middle PCS (her PCS actually only seem “low“ because her main rivals, Anna and Aliona get higher ones) all around. Even though she should be much better in something like transitions and skating skills, for example, than interpretation.

There‘s 5 parts to PCS, actually. Skating skills, Transitions, Performance, Composition, and Interpretation. I could do a detailed analysis of what I see as Sasha‘s strengths and weaknesses in each. Provide videos and links and write a whole, long, boring essay. Would that be more objective then? I don‘t know, honestly. I’ve said many times that Sasha’s got charm and if given the right vehicle, is a good performer. “Performance“ is one part of skating skills! I have also said previously that Sasha‘s skating skills are pretty good, her basic skating, turns and edges, not taking exhaustion and lack of stamina after many quads into the equation, are better than Anna (in my opinion) eg. So, no, I don‘t want Sasha to be “demoted“ in PCS. I think she has work to do. I thought that was obvious but maybe not. And then again, I ask: So what? It doesn‘t make her a lesser skater.

Overall, I’m just confused. Is it wrong to say that Sasha‘s weaker at interpreting the music than Anna, for example? Likewise, is it wrong to say that Sasha‘s 3lutz is better than Anna‘s? I don‘t think so. Sasha has work to do on the PCS part, Anna has to work on her jumping technique for lutz and flip. Aliona needs to make sure she doesn’t lose the performance in the second half of her program, like it happened at Euros and needs to work on the lutz further. Is that subjective, one sided information? Maybe it is. But then again, since this is a discussion forum, and we all just give our opinions, EVERYTHING will be subjective to a certain degree. Your opinion, mine, and the ones of the people who read here. They‘re free to make up their own minds, I don‘t think anybody will base their ultimate truth on what I write or don‘t write here.

I try to be respectful and fair and as objective as someone who naturally has favorites (I don‘t deny this, we are all biased in a way) can be. You say that I don‘t know the measure. I‘m aware I write a lot, mostly I just let my thoughts wander and write them down. I was under the impression this is what a discussion forum is all about, I didn’t know it was hypocrisy or anything. If I “insistently express my opinion at every opportunity“ it is because I‘m probably a kind of a know-it-all (guilty of that, always have been ) and I love the Russian ladies. Really, this is kinda the most confusing criticism I‘ve ever got because I actually really love Sasha (or I wouldn’t spend time writing and thinking about her) and I struggle to understand what I‘m supposed to change. If anyone finds my posts disrespectful or hypocritical, I would love if they explained how so and where! Other than the fact that I write too much. I take that into consideration but attempts to change THAT have remained fruitless so far. So, yes, in THAT case, I don‘t know the measure Sorry! (You‘ll all have to deal with it or ignore it, your choice.)

 

[Jontor]

Yes, this is your personal opinion, and like any opinion, it is worthy of respect. However, I see some hypocrisy in this formulation of the question. You insistently express your opinion at every opportunity, citing a lot of arguments based only on your personal impressions, and you always conclude: Sasha should be demoted to PCS, she will never be even close to this .... even close.
Some users on this forum with the same persistence insist on issues of prerotation, cheating, and other things ... also citing their arguments, often more objective than your conclusions. But it does not find support here basically. Although I, in principle, can understand their motives, I certainly can not approve of them.
You should be aware that many people read this forum. And many form their view on the basis of the information received here. Thanks to you, they receive one-sided, subjective information.
I am not against any objective criticism at all. I am totally for it. But I urge you to know the measure in everything.
Phew a lot of words for me. I apologize if this is OT somewhere.

Very well said Alex. And Fluture - I love your opinions and insight, but sometimes it feels like it lacks objectivity. It's fine though, everyone has their own right to his/hers opinions. And if I disagree, I will certainly say so...

 

[Fluture]

Very well said Alex. And Fluture - I love your opinions and insight, but sometimes it feels like it lacks objectivity. It's fine though, everyone has their own right to his/hers opinions. And if I disagree, I will certainly say so...

That‘s alright, I can live with that! No one manages to be objective all the time and passionate skating fans surely don‘t.

 

[Fluture]

So, asking for some purely subjective opinions now: On social media some fans seem to believe the program Sasha debuted today will be her new SP for Worlds. What do you all think of that?

(also, I only noticed now that her costume is similar to the one Alina wore before. It looked so different on her!)

 

[Jontor]

So, asking for some purely subjective opinions now: On social media some fans seem to believe the program Sasha debuted today will be her new SP for Worlds. What do you all think of that?

(also, I only noticed now that her costume is similar to the one Alina wore before. It looked so different on her!)

It might be her new short, but if so, I think team Tut are overthinking the problem with Trusova this season. Her problem is certainly not the short. On the other hand they might think that a new program will spark some fighting spirit in Sasha, and that might not be such a bad idea. If this is her new program, then maybe her long will benefit from it...?

 

[readernick]

That‘s alright, I can live with that! No one manages to be objective all the time and passionate skating fans surely don‘t.

Every opinion expressed on this site is subjective. People only point it out when they disagree with that subjectivity.

Unlike some other posters who personally insult skaters appearance or personality if they don't belong to their favored group/nationality, your opinions are expressed respectfully and with kindness.

About the program, I hope it isn't her new program. I , subjectively, agree that this program doesn't suit her. I do hope Sasha has programs that suit her better next year. I think Wakaba Higuchi is an example of a skater who uses her power and strength in her programs rather than trying to hide them. ( Wakaba's basic SS are better than Sasha's but they are both power skaters) Like you, I really like Sasha's personality. She's strong and adorable. I hope she gets a proram that plays to her strengths.

 

[katymay]

I liked Sasha's program. It was nice seeing something different from her, and it's good to see skaters try something different. I agree that I'm not sure this is her style though.
But this couldn't possibly be a new sp, could it? Maybe next year? If has the structure

I think it is. I loved Petr Gint (sic), but I'm thinking they made a change for some reason. (She seemed to be having a few problems on the step seq keeping up with the old one? I like both, but prefer the music from the old one.

I love how they are showing pics of these skaters when they were kids.....wish the pair skater had not given piano up though. LOL. Really a well done show. Bravo.