2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

[readernick]

There is more to skating than ice time (at a public rink as I gather?): PE, conditioning, choreo and all the other off-ice activities that make up the majority of a skater's working day.

Alysa at 14 is still a kid, with a kids outlook at the world. She seems of a more sturdy build compared to the (younger) Russians that are now her rivals. Everybody talks about how the Russian girls will loose their skills when they go through puberty and the changes, but the same applies to Alysa too.

I think she'll be at a real disadvantage when she has no sparring partners or high level training mates once the going get tough, and all mental and moral strength and support will be needed.

Most important for Alysa is to stay injury free and motivated. 'Warm bath' domestic scoring and then a 'cold shower' in international competitions? Better not.

The extreme internal competition is great for producing champions, it is also good for producing burnout at 16.Alysa looks positive, happy and well adjusted. She should be allowed to be a kid not crushed by extreme pressure or expectation。

Alysa doesn't need to win Junior Worlds at 14. She has time to develop. We have seen Alysa tighten up on her 3A in international competition this year. That is likely due to nerves. It is normal to be nervous. Hopefully, she will get more speed into get jumps. But, whatever, she is just turned 14. I think all the adults on this site just need to leave the young teenagers alone.

Everyone is overscored in domestic competitions. (unless you are Japanese) Those scores aren't taken seriously. But, Alysa is certainly aware of her weaknesses and is working on them. Leave her, her family, and her coaches alone to do the real work. Same applies to all the other teenage girls, unless abuse is occurring ... they are kids.

 

[Amei]

Agreed. It has nothing to do about smiling but more an ease and musicality. Eteri girls look like someone is literally pointing a gun to their heads when they get on the ice. It makes me so uncomfortable to watch given that they are actual children.

Well its important to note that Russian ladies are in a constant insane competitive national environment where they know that they can easily be replaced even if they perform well; look at their seniors this year, it seemed pretty clear after the 3 new seniors performed on the GP circuit that the previous year's World champion had pretty much zero chance of getting onto the team to actually defend her Worlds title. Alysa is pretty much a lock for winning her national competitions even on the senior level at Nationals she's winning with ease - Mariah Bell performed probably the best she's capable of and was 10 points behind Alsya.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

Anyone else suspect Alysa will make a coaching change in the off season? (I'm in no way saying that her current coach hasn't done a wonderful job, she has).

I think she has to. This situation isn’t working. I haven’t seen any real improvements to her skating since before the GP final. With all due respect to her coach I’m not sure she is the one who is going to get Alysa there.

But the question is who can help her? Forget the American ladies for a minute. The Japanese and Korean ladies who actually DO have the skating skills and speed are struggling to compete with the Russian ladies.

I don’t know. I think the takeaway from this should be that it’s not just quads and 3As that need to be drilled from a young age in order to ensure development. It’s the skating skills, speed, extension, transitions. The ISU is telling us what kind of skating they want to reward and the scores of the Japanese and Korean ladies demonstrate it loud and clear. In order for Alysa or anyone else to win they must skate like the Russian ladies. That means programs packed full of intricate transitions. Just doing steps isn’t going to cut it anymore. You need to lift your leg at least once. Your posture must be exceptional and mirror theirs. You must have identical speed and skating skills. Point your toes. Ballet hands. Hold the edge coming off your 2A and stretch that leg!!

What Haein Lee did in the short program was gorgeous, mature, and elegant and it was barely enough to get within 5 points of Kamila. And I have a feeling it will be a similar story at Worlds with Rika/Young vs. the Russian senior ladies. Whether we agree with it or not it’s the reality. Unless Alysa can somehow figure this out then I think we can forget about the Olympics. I’m starting to wonder whether it’s even possible for her at this point or if USFSA should take this as a lesson learned and go find a 10 year old that can be taught 3As, quads, AND Eteri quality skating simultaneously. Only with an arsenal of ALL of these skills can one truly be competitive these days.

 

[natsulian]

Congratulations to Alysa on a well deserved bronze medal. The American ladies have now medaled at two consecutive Junior Worlds with Ting Cui having broken the drought last season. With the off-season beginning for the junior ladies, Alysa’s team will surely re-evaluate where she stands and how she can progress even further. Starr was delightful and am jubilant about her putting together two clean programs in a high stakes competition. Starr will require a consistent triple-Flip and needs to re-work her triple-Lutz for her to increase her scoring potential. As for Lindsay, our Junior Champion, she will certainly learn from the disastrous Short Program and grow as a competitor.

Alysa’s team needs to focus on her SPEED, skating skills, and jumps. Speed is inherently one of the most difficult aspects of skating to work on but it can be done. After watching Alysa and juxtaposing her performance next to the Russians and Koreans, her lack of speed was most evident. Additionally, her skating skills have improved greatly but her edge quality and glides still need work. The jumps... the transitions in and out, the flow, speed into and out of the jumps, and overall technique ALL require inspection and improvement. Alysa needs to work on the jumps she has NOW and not worry about adding in more difficult jumps. Although she had the second highest technical score at the event, she was severely lacking in the performance components and settled for bronze. Her team should be aware that it is not the technical aspect of skating that is now pushing her back but the components, and I’m hopeful that she will improve tremendously over the off-season.

I have hope that Alysa, who is a great competitor and insanely talented, will surely work on these and more and blow us away come next season. Best of luck to our ladies.

 

[Tolstoj]

I think the fact that US Ladies have medaled at Junior Worlds in consecutive seasons is a sign that US Ladies are finally on the way up again. I can't wait to see that little spitfire Isabeau Levito in Juniors next season. She needs polish and work on her speed and skating skills but at Nationals she was money on her jumps and beat girls much older then her.

I hope so cause i think competition helps even the leaders to keep working.

 

[Colonel Green]

I think she'll be at a real disadvantage when she has no sparring partners or high level training mates once the going get tough, and all mental and moral strength and support will be needed.

Whether having direct competitors training with you is an advantage or a disadvantage depends quite a lot on the personality of the skaters. There have been many very successful skaters who did not thrive in such an environment.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I think she has to. This situation isn’t working. I haven’t seen any real improvements to her skating since before the GP final. With all due respect to her coach I’m not sure she is the one who is going to get Alysa there.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect Alysa to get to the level of Kamila so quickly. No coach in the US can replicate the environment of Eteri's rink, where these girls go in everyday and train alongside the best senior women, see their process of learning the jumps, being pushed to master all the skills in between elements, etc. Even at Jr Worlds, Alysa's PCS with her mistakes was only 8 points behind Kamila's, so that's still a gap that can be closed with technical merit.

 

[bytheriver]

I really hope Alysa’s coach focuses on the performance and skating skills and not increasing the tech content. She has issues rotating the big jumps (especially the quad which has been under the last 4 times she put it in). Adding another quad would just make the problem worse, especially as she continues to grow and the jumps become harder.

She is starting to get a reputation as an under rotator with the judges (for the big jumps and combos at least) which could come back to bite her if she stops being able to do any big jumps consistently. Then you get a Mirai situation where sometimes the unders are there, but sometimes the judges just see what they want to see based on reputation.

Just focus on making herself better with the content she has - running yourself in the ground trying to add different quads hasn’t exactly been a winning strategy for Trusova, and she hasn’t even finished going through puberty yet.

 

[KatGrace1925]

I wonder how Alysa would do with a Shae-Lynn program. I think part of the problem is her packaging is so much more juniorish than the Russian ladies. I hope next season they experiment more with the programs and try something new.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I really hope Alysa’s coach focuses on the performance and skating skills and not increasing the tech content. She has issues rotating the big jumps (especially the quad which has been under the last 4 times she put it in). Adding another quad would just make the problem worse, especially as she continues to grow and the jumps become harder.

She is starting to get a reputation as an under rotator with the judges (for the big jumps and combos at least) which could come back to bite her if she stops being able to do any big jumps consistently. Then you get a Mirai situation where sometimes the unders are there, but sometimes the judges just see what they want to see based on reputation.

Just focus on making herself better with the content she has - running yourself in the ground trying to add different quads hasn’t exactly been a winning strategy for Trusova, and she hasn’t even finished going through puberty yet.

It's a real dilemma, because all of Alysa's success is due to her jumping prowess. I feel like she has to keep pushing herself there and working on the other aspects with whatever time she has left because, if she loses the big jumps, it will take her years to catch up with Bradie and Mariah if they're all doing the same technical content. She also gets a PCS bump from doing the hard jumps so if she became a better skater but lost the 3A, it's conceivable her PCS scores could actually fall.

 

[bubblecherry]

I doubt Alysa would change coaches just like that. Perhaps her and Laura would move rinks, I can't imagine Alysa would leave her entirely at this point.

On another note, I find Alysa's performance and presentation to be the best of the Junior podium. Their SS, TR, and perhaps CO far surpass Alysa, agreed. However, Alysa performs and interprets not only much more, but also much better in my view. Of course none of this is represented in scoring, but I would say Alysa has her own strengths and there is an effort being put in her weaknesses as well.

 

[brakes]

My two cents: Alysa's looks, personality and smile are genuine, infectous and super likeable.
She is also very competitive and never complaining about her outcomes, judges, bad luck, etc..

If you read figure skating fora there, even most devoted fans of Russian girls respect and like her. :agree:

 

[hippomoomin]

My feeling is she will be more successful in keeping her 3A than 4lz when she grows, because many 3A ladies are not stick figures (Liza, Modri, Mirai...) but to be very thin with narrow shoulders/hips is almost required for quads among ladies. Hope her team at least try a team coaching with a different perspective from a different coach and more competitive training mates.

It's a real dilemma, because all of Alysa's success is due to her jumping prowess. I feel like she has to keep pushing herself there and working on the other aspects with whatever time she has left because, if she loses the big jumps, it will take her years to catch up with Bradie and Mariah if they're all doing the same technical content. She also gets a PCS bump from doing the hard jumps so if she became a better skater but lost the 3A, it's conceivable her PCS scores could actually fall.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Hope her team at least try a team coaching with a different perspective from a different coach and more competitive training mates.

Wasn't she working with Carolina Kostner? If Alysa could get even half of Caro's ease of movement and flow across they ice, the youngster would be in great shape.

 

[bytheriver]

Wasn't she working with Carolina Kostner? If Alysa could get even half of Caro's ease of movement and flow across they ice, the youngster would be in great shape.

I wonder how much of that was USFS PR. I don’t doubt that she FaceTimed her a couple of times and met her while in Italy last year, but so much of skating skills training needs to be taught in person. And speed is one of the hardest things to develop in an older skater (not a small child).

She would really benefit from working with someone in person, hopefully in the Bay Area, who can work with her day to day. Just because they aren’t a big name doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be a great coach. And often the best coaches weren’t top skaters at all - often not making it to senior themselves. It’s rare that you see a former top skater become a top coach (the exception being Brian Orser and Tracy Wilson of course, along with the Montreal dance crew).

 

[Makemi]

The extreme internal competition is great for producing champions, it is also good for producing burnout at 16. Alysa looks positive, happy and well adjusted. She should be allowed to be a kid not crushed by extreme pressure or expectation。

Alysa doesn't need to win Junior Worlds at 14. She has time to develop. We have seen Alysa tighten up on her 3A in international competition this year. That is likely due to nerves. It is normal to be nervous. Hopefully, she will get more speed into get jumps. But, whatever, she is just turned 14. I think all the adults on this site just need to leave the young teenagers alone.

^^ This exactly. What Alysa does as a junior won't (or shouldn't) define her career. The important thing is she learns from these experiences. Nathan never won JWC either (highest he got was a bronze) and that hasn't affected his career in the slightest. Alysa's young, she is making steady progress, and she's got a good head on her shoulders... she's got time. (Anyway I certainly don't consider bronze a failure. She should be incredibly proud of what she's done!)

Anyone else suspect Alysa will make a coaching change in the off season? (I'm in no way saying that her current coach hasn't done a wonderful job, she has).

I don't think a coaching change is likely given how close she is to Lipetsky. But I'll bite. If Alysa were to consider a coaching change, who could she go to?

* Raf? She could train with Mariah and Marin. Raf specializes in teaching sustainable technique. He's in California so the family would only need a minor relocation. And Shae-Lynn has now relocated there so that's another plus.
Likelihood: Super unlikely. Raf has made his stance on quads and young girls pretty clear so I highly doubt he'd be willing to take her in.

* Denise Meyers? In addition to having Bradie, Meyers also has a bunch of junior girls also learning quads. She's good at creating layouts that maximize and squeeze points out of everything.
Likelihood: Also unlikely... Meyers already has a lot of juniors and she's certainly not going to take on Bradie's direct competitor.

* Tammy Gambill (or anyone at the World Arena)? She'd be training with Ting and Karen (if Karen doesn't go back to school; also does Mirai still train there?). Rika and Young also spend large chunks of time in Colorado. The US Olympic Training Center is here too.
Likelihood: Not completely unlikely. But which coach would take her? (No TomZ please...)

* Mie Hamada? Again, Hamada's got Rika and Young, both with 3As and training quads. She had (has?) Satoko and we know she specializes in teaching SS.
Likelihood: Pretty unlikely. If it happened at all it would have to be like Vincent, a half-time arrangement since Alysa would not be able to relocate to Japan. Also not sure Hamada would take on Alysa since she'd be a direct rival to both Rika and Young in 2022.

* Lee Barkell? Satoko is there, and Gabby. He's also in Toronto so close and easy access to Lori Nicol. How is Barkell as a jump doctor? Satoko must have some faith in him that he can give her more height on her jumps, since Satoko's goal is getting a 3A.
Likelihood: This is not a bad idea actually. Alysa has the same problem as Satoko... tiny jumps and prone to UR. And training with Satoko can have some real benefits.

* TCC? Well Evgenia's there which is a huge plus. Alysa has already spent time here working with Orser on her 3A and other specialists on her quads. She could join Tracy's stroking classes.
Likelihood: IF Alysa really was going to make a coaching change, I'd say TCC is the most likely because she's already been working there... she knows the coaches and the coaches know her. Like World Arena though, which coach would take her? Or perhaps Lipetsky would stay on as her "main" coach and Alysa could just train most of the time with different specialists?

Anyone I missed?

 

[moonvine]

I definitely agree with your first point. You can tell that Alysa completely loves skating and has a ball every time that she is on the ice. As you said, I don't see the same in the junior skaters from Eteri's school. In fact, many of them look scared/uncomfortable on the ice.

That’s because they get taught wonderful stuff like “First place is winning, anything else is losing.”

 

[moonvine]

I just hope they keep Alysa off social media and Goldenskate. Good gravy people. She’s a 13 year old child who finished 3rd at Junior Worlds. Some of y’all are acting like she didn’t make the free skate, or came in last. Which would have been ok too. It’s her first year. I just can’t even with this. CONGRATS to Alysa on her bronze! Great job! A bronze medal is a great achievement!

 

[moonvine]

I think she has to. This situation isn’t working. I haven’t seen any real improvements to her skating since before the GP final. With all due respect to her coach I’m not sure she is the one who is going to get Alysa there.

But the question is who can help her? Forget the American ladies for a minute. The Japanese and Korean ladies who actually DO have the skating skills and speed are struggling to compete with the Russian ladies.

I don’t know. I think the takeaway from this should be that it’s not just quads and 3As that need to be drilled from a young age in order to ensure development. It’s the skating skills, speed, extension, transitions. The ISU is telling us what kind of skating they want to reward and the scores of the Japanese and Korean ladies demonstrate it loud and clear. In order for Alysa or anyone else to win they must skate like the Russian ladies.

I sure hope not. Each to their own, but the Russian ladies skating is not to my taste. If the whole sport looked like that...no thank you. And I’m not being jingoistic. Of the junior ladies, my favorites were Canadian and Polish.

 

[Sjs5572]

For those of you who think Alysa needs a coaching change, may I ask specific reasons why? Does she need a coaching and choreographer change? Just a new choreographer? Just a new coach?