2020–21 Canadian Figure Skating

[Pairsfanforever]

Its unbelievable how a nation the size of Canada cant produce ladies single skaters that are competing for the podium every year. the amount of ice availability and number of people.. Canada should be much much better. Take Ice Dance for example. Out ID teams are always very high level and have a chance to challenge for podium spots. Canadian ladies with the exception of Osmond/Rochette in the last 20 years have had trouble finishing top 10 in worlds. Its trying times now that the 2018 olympic team is pretty much gone, that was likely the best team canada has ever put together on ice as a nation.

Whether one approves or not of the Russian system (and a few other countries as well) there is no doubt that they do it very differently from Canada when it comes to Women’s skating. Aside from the fact that most talented skaters in those countries end up being coached primarily by one coach or group of coaches who are the best in those countries our talent is often spread all over the country with different coaching systems and coaches. And I’m just asking the question but does our system actually push these young athletes? Working on quads is the norm in Russia for their most talented girls under 16. If anyone knows which coaches in Canada have their sub 16 skaters working on quads let alone triple, triple combos we don’t see it often at competitions.

 

[NanaPat]

Its unbelievable how a nation the size of Canada cant produce ladies single skaters that are competing for the podium every year.

Canada isn't as big as you think, based on population. There are 3 European countries with a figure skating tradition: the UK, Italy, and France, that don't so as well as Canada in ladies skating. Can you name a country with a population LESS than Canada's that does better? I couldn't find one. Does the US, which is about 9 times as populous as Canada, produce "ladies single skaters that are competing for the podium every year".

 

[Colonel Green]

And I’m just asking the question but does our system actually push these young athletes? Working on quads is the norm in Russia for their most talented girls under 16. If anyone knows which coaches in Canada have their sub 16 skaters working on quads let alone triple, triple combos we don’t see it often at competitions.

Jump training is progressive. A coach wouldn't have a skater seriously working on quads (as opposed to trying it out in harness just to see what it'd feel like, which is something skaters commonly do everywhere) until they reached the point of being successful with all their triples, combinations, etc. If you don't have a triple Lutz yet, there's no point starting to work on a quad Salchow, and so on.

Canada isn't as big as you think, based on population. There are 3 European countries with a figure skating tradition: the UK, Italy, and France, that don't so as well as Canada in ladies skating. Can you name a country with a population LESS than Canada's that does better? I couldn't find one. Does the US, which is about 9 times as populous as Canada, produce "ladies single skaters that are competing for the podium every year".

I'd agree that setting the standard at "competing for the [World?] podium every year" is a bit high.

At the same point, it's uncontroversial that the ladies' program majorly lags the other disciplines right now, and usually has historically as well.

 

[Cutting the ice]

Interesting discussion. I would love to see a comparison of how different countries fund development of potentially elite figure skaters (note - I said potentially, not already elite). As the sport gets more expensive and more needs to be invested in very young children in order to develop that skater that is world's podium competitive, I expect that the distance between the big and small countries (Canada being pretty small) will just widen.

My daughter was what I term a recreational competitive figure skater, and I still wonder in the middle of the night what I could have done with all that money I spent on coaching, ice, costumes and equipment. It terrifies me to think how families can afford to fund children to the elite level - what they must sacrifice just to get their talented child to the level of consideration for Next-Gen status.

On a more positive note, the skills my daughter learned in handling high pressure situations (stoney-faced judges) as well as the joy of working with little kids to help them learn to skate is serving her very well in life. So a good investment.

 

[Colonel Green]

Since this season is already pretty much a writeoff, Piper & Paul are apparently already starting to get things ready for next season, as their next RD music is being mixed:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CI3AuS0Lp-t/

 

[4everchan]

what is bothering me the most is how poorly ladies do in comparison to men in Canada. The fact that Canada has produced many world champions and top 10 contenders means that the system is working... the coaches, the clubs, the choreographers are there... and if we compare to other sports, look at how well women do in speed skating, both long track and short track or hockey... we can also look at swimming for instance, where Canadian women are so much better than Canadian men when it comes to getting Olympic medals..... So is it that our girls with a competitive mind play hockey and speed skate... and girls who do figure skating are culturally more in it for the "fun/hobby" value? I don't know.... what i can say is that Quebec took a long time to embrace IJS and the girls were still competing 6.0 events in the USA, focusing on presentation rather than jumping... very few Quebec girls do triple-triple... there seems to be a lag with technical content in Quebec girls versus Ontario or BC girls... Joannie didn't have the scores she deserved because her BV was lower than others with no 3-3 compared to Kim, Kostner or Asada's 3A. It is good to see that some are now steadier with the 2a-3t which is encouraging but far from the big combos we have seen Osmond, Gabby and even Alaine land/try. So it seems to me, and I am talking about the situation in Quebec because I am from there.... that girls in Quebec are still more focused on good skating skills than getting the tricks done. If i am not mistaken, there is NONE who has even all her triples steady right now... (not thinking 3a)

 

[Colonel Green]

Jordan Cowan continues to work his magic in grabbing the spotlight on skaters. In this case, Alicia & Paul's partial RD runthrough from the Gadbois livestream earlier in the year was repackaged on TikTok and now has 6.4 million views.

 

[4everchan]

well alicia and paul deserve the attention.. they are doing some very fine skating... love them since day ONE...

 

[Blades of Passion]

That’s a lot of views, I wonder exactly what made that one a hit?

 

[4everchan]

Available both on CBC TV and WEB (for those able to use a VPN and outside Canada :

• Dec 26, 1:00 PM
• Olympic Games Replay: The Golden Age of Canadian Figure Skating (South Korea, 2018)

 

[jersey1302]

I feel we have a big enough population base, and the fact its winter longer than summer too lol. We field olympic winning and world junior winning hockey teams all the time, we produce stars upon stars in hockey constantly, I dont see why we cant push for podium spots all the time in skating. Its because the $ is spent on hockey.

 

[abbykitty]

Despite Canada spending more $ on hockey, the men's, pairs and dance fields in Canada are pretty consistently decent. Even when there's no superstars or podium contenders, we at least have someone who can contend in the Top 10 in those fields.

The ladies field on the other hand is severely lacking and it's mind boggling and no one is sure why.... lack of funding? lack of competitive mentality? lack of motivation/idols? lack of nurturing at the ground level and too many financial barriers with no incentive to excel beyond the national level? the fact that Canada can barely produce consistent ladies contenders even with top coaches/training facilities/opportunities has been frustrating for many Canadian skating fans for a long time.

We have to wait for a once in a blue moon unicorn like Joannie or Kaetlyn who can actually land all the base triples, let alone contend for the podium. Right now it seems like we're in another Jennifer Robinson like dark ages where the Canadian Ladies Champion is whoever falls the least yet again.

Canada needs to learn from whatever Russia did to transform their ladies figure skating program. Slutskaya and Butyrskaya pretty much carried Russian Ladies through the golden age mid-90s-2000s of Michelle Kwan figure skating, but they weren't exactly a powerhouse of unlimited female talent until the past few years. Now on the world stage landing all the triples including 3-3s is pretty basic skating....and it feels like Canadian ladies are so far behind even being capable of that and it's depressing....

 

[Colonel Green]

Canada needs to learn from whatever Russia did to transform their ladies figure skating program.

The Russian system isn't replicable in a western country for a bunch of reasons.

 

[4everchan]

The Russian system isn't replicable in a western country for a bunch of reasons.

I don't think anyone is saying that Canada needs to do exactly the same as what is done in Russia... western country or not, the pool of athletes is very different... however, what I read here is that there are things Skate Canada could take from the Russian system and integrate to our values... as mentioned, getting triple jumps earlier, before puberty as it is shown BY SCIENCE, (where is TGee when we need her? ) that it is much easier for a young girl who had learned a baggage of tricks to adapt them to a growing body than learning new tricks after she's been through change. Again, look at the roster of girls around... Madeline is JUST learning a triple lutz and was aon the national podium, Aurora never really had all her triples at the same time, even a girl like Kaetlyn took a while before including the triple lutz and loop to her regular set of jumps... Mallet doesn't have a triple lutz... nor does Long... who else do i need to mention? Sarah-Maude Blanchard who no longer skates was one of the only girls in the country to have both the lutz and flip but had no loop or was it the salchow,. not sure which... i mean.. this is getting much... and we are not even talking about 3-3 yet. Get them to learn the 2a-3t very early at least... and we are seeing that more and more thanks to the next gen requirements... So there is progress but tons more needs to be done. Without being Russia, there could be a way to take let's say the 5 or 6 best novices and also 5-6 best juniors in the country to give them a 2 month boot camp during the summer time... like a national training camp... of course, it's tough on the young athletes and their parents, but in some team sports, they have no choice and they join a national center YEAR-LONG.. Talent must be nurtured... a girl like Sarah Tamura for instance, would have benefitted from a national elite training entourage... It was truly not working with MacLeod ... is Kayia in the best possible environment for her development? Not criticizing anything there as, so far so good, but we will see how she does develop.... So there are possibilities within this country to develop national training centers and give the athletes more exposure to elite coaching and intelligence. Look at the Ice Dance Academy in Montreal... there was a pairs Center too in St-Leonard a few years ago... these hubs have produced world champions... athletes from all over the world are/were training there... Skate Canada needs to find a way to provide such environment for girls as well. In some ways, this is what the big clubs in Russia do... so without the Russian system and culture, there is a way in Canada to create hubs which will provide elite training to the most promising talents.

 

[abbykitty]

Emily Bausback was actually the national champion because she actually attempted a 3F-3T in her sp and all the triples along with a 3Lz-2t-2t and 3s-3t in her FS...though her artistry leaves something to be desired, and her basic jump technique and ss is so wonky it's actually painful to watch sometimes.

Madeline Schizas was 3rd at nationals, but probably would've been national champ even without the 3Lz if she'd landed those two double axels at the end of her FS. her jump technique is pretty solid and has the most potential compared to the other senior ladies, her artistry albeit still juniorish is more natural, and she has a competitive mindset medalling in both of her very first international competitions post nationals....even beating Emily by a large margin. not sure why she's been so underrated or held back, but it's probably because she lacked 3Lz and harder jump combinations. I have hope for her though since she's been training 3Lz-3T and 3A even with strict Covid restrictions in Canada:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9P5heMJwQI/

The only Canadian lady to even have all her triples last season was junior Kaiya Ruiter....who was even able to upgrade from 3T-3T to 3Lz-3T midseason which was pretty impressive. her jumps aren't as powerful though so she doesn't get good GOEs, and unfortunately she's going through a growth spurt this year, but there's still hope for her as she's very consistent and has a lot of potential.

I feel like Canada would benefit from Cup of Russia style 5-Stage competitions. some of the ladies may have all their triples and all the potential in the world, but very little to no competitive experience and it clearly shows in international competition. with more consistent competitive experience they can measure up with the best in the country to see what they need to compete, learn how to better steady their nerves and gain more confidence to be able to try more difficult jumps with consistency.

 

[4everchan]

Emily Bausback was actually the national champion because she actually attempted a 3F-3T in her sp and all the triples along with a 3Lz-2t-2t and 3s-3t in her FS...though her artistry leaves something to be desired, and her basic jump technique and ss is so wonky it's actually painful to watch sometimes.

Madeline Schizas was 3rd at nationals, but probably would've been national champ even without the 3Lz if she'd landed those two double axels at the end of her FS. her jump technique is pretty solid and has the most potential compared to the other senior ladies, her artistry albeit still juniorish is more natural, and she has a competitive mindset medalling in both of her very first international competitions post nationals....even beating Emily by a large margin. not sure why she's been so underrated or held back, but it's probably because she lacked 3Lz and harder jump combinations. I have hope for her though since she's been training 3Lz-3T and 3A even with strict Covid restrictions in Canada:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9P5heMJwQI/

The only Canadian lady to even have all her triples last season was junior Kaiya Ruiter....who was even able to upgrade from 3T-3T to 3Lz-3T midseason which was pretty impressive. her jumps aren't as powerful though so she doesn't get good GOEs, and unfortunately she's going through a growth spurt this year, but there's still hope for her as she's very consistent and has a lot of potential.

I feel like Canada would benefit from Cup of Russia style 5-Stage competitions. some of the ladies may have all their triples and all the potential in the world, but very little to no competitive experience and it clearly shows in international competition. with more consistent competitive experience they can measure up with the best in the country to see what they need to compete, learn how to better steady their nerves and gain more confidence to be able to try more difficult jumps with consistency.

i corrected my post I meant podium for Madeline.. and I agree about Emily.. i don't even want to talk about her because I dislike her skating so much and she is our national champion... last time it happened to me (sorry mr rice) it was for jen robinson...


ETA I thought we were on a good trend with Gabby, Kaetlyn and Alaine all doing 3-3 combos and doing both lutz and flip (well Alaine rarely got a flip credited to her in her late years but at least it was attempted) ... but the 3 of them gone or injured... and we get what? nothing much

 

[Flying Feijoa]

How about looking to Japan for tips? Their sporting system is more similar to Western countries compared to the ex-Soviet bloc. Although I'm no expert, they don't have state-sponsored sports schools - like Canada, grassroots development is mostly privately funded and promising skaters get fed funding. 3-3 combos are standard for them and they have good spins and skating skills too. Plus, no obvious difference in 'values' to Canada in terms of skater welfare that I know of (Hamada allegations aside). They have ice dance and pairs skaters training in Toronto and Montreal - maybe Canada could ask a favour to send some ladies to train in Japan (either long-term or like a summer boot camp)? Depends if Japan's fed and the Canadian ladies are willing of course.

 

[4everchan]

How about looking to Japan for tips? Their sporting system is more similar to Western countries compared to the ex-Soviet bloc. Although I'm no expert, they don't have state-sponsored sports schools - like Canada, grassroots development is mostly privately funded and promising skaters get fed funding. 3-3 combos are standard for them and they have good spins and skating skills too. Plus, no obvious difference in 'values' to Canada in terms of skater welfare that I know of (Hamada allegations aside). They have ice dance and pairs skaters training in Toronto and Montreal - maybe Canada could ask a favour to send some ladies to train in Japan (either long-term or like a summer boot camp)? Depends if Japan's fed and the Canadian ladies are willing of course.

i would much prefer a crop of Canadian girls skating like the Japanese girls than the Russian girls... Japanese girls have smooth skating skill and solid basics.

 

[Colonel Green]

The only Canadian lady to even have all her triples last season was junior Kaiya Ruiter

Not that the quality level was good, but things were not quite that bad. Bausback, Daleman and Schumacher also do all five of the "regular" triples (obviously none of them are doing the triple Axel), to name three.

I feel like Canada would benefit from Cup of Russia style 5-Stage competitions. some of the ladies may have all their triples and all the potential in the world, but very little to no competitive experience and it clearly shows in international competition. with more consistent competitive experience they can measure up with the best in the country to see what they need to compete, learn how to better steady their nerves and gain more confidence to be able to try more difficult jumps with consistency.

Cup of Russia isn't really different from the nationals qualification process in Canada in terms of the number of times a person theoretically has to compete; if you don't have a bye due to international assignments, you do Sectionals and then Challenge (the latter where everybody is present, at least those who don't have byes).

They have ice dance and pairs skaters training in Toronto and Montreal - maybe Canada could ask a favour to send some ladies to train in Japan (either long-term or like a summer boot camp)? Depends if Japan's fed and the Canadian ladies are willing of course.

That wouldn't be something the Japanese federation would need to be involved in. If Canadian skaters want to train in Japan, they would have to make those deals with the individual coaches involved; there's nothing stopping them from doing that now other than (a) potential lack of funds (something Skate Canada could theoretically help with) and/or (b) lack of desire to go to Japan since they don't speak the language.

We don't, in general, see western singles skaters training in Japan, and I suspect (b) is the biggest reason for that, moreso even than money.

 

[4everchan]

Not sure we can really count on even those 3 girls having all 5 triples.. how many times have either one of them landed all five in a LP since 2018?