2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[TripleAxelQueens3]

You could look at online videos for how turns are executed in order to learn how turns are cheated.

Personally, I wouldn't differentiate between the notion of "cheated" and "hopped". Hopped is a type of cheated to me. But I haven't looked at this turn. Usually, a "hopped" turn is when the skater, well, hops at the cusp of the turn.

Well yes, but I'm not sure if hopped means the entire blade comes off the ice or just part of it. From what I can see it looks like Anna's toepick is still on the ice.

 

[chasingneverland]

Oh Fran. She is as hopeless as TSL are...

I thought it was fairly established that she asked to go back?

 

[Shayuki]

who exactly is showing the attitude here that "Kostornaia's trapped and that things are one-sidedly unfair to her"? Even her fans are laying low because they recognize that this is a whole mess that was brought on by her actions. Just wondering where you're getting that take from

Twitter, another site, youtube, news comments etc. I mean it's not like there are tons of figure skating communities right? Even discord's dead.

 

[Skatesocs]

Well yes, but I'm not sure if hopped means the entire blade comes off the ice or just part of it. From what I can see it looks like Anna's toepick is still on the ice.

OK. Well, then you should look up a bracket turn and see what's up. Some videos even show common cheats.

 

[Shayuki]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKb1redJPbC/

Kostyleva Yelena‘s mom: „It’s been three weeks since Yelena is training with Eteri Georgievna. She’s very happy to return to a proper training process. Huge thank you to Eteri Georgievna for her generosity and professionalism. Lena is doing her best and wants to justify the trust she’s been given. Khrustalny welcomed us with warmth and overall there’s a feeling of coming back home after a year-long business trip“

welp. We can only thank our prince of beauty for leaving Tutberidze, he just made this 8 year old very happy.

Hoping the next season goes great. It's pretty amazing that she apparently is in Eteri's group already rather than the younger ones, at 8 years of age. Don't think that's usual...

And if the thing with Rozanov and Parsegova's accurate, very puzzling as well but I guess won't need to worry about that anymore.

 

[alexocfp]

Well she also could be doing it out of precedent. Could they afford it this once? Of course. But it sets precedent that you can leave Plushy (or any coach) still owing money and without fulfilling your legal obligations. That's a dangerous slope and even worse for coaches that have less income than he does. And those are the ones it actually will effect. Especially as they won't have the army of lawyers Plushy does. I understand it from a legal point of view - precedent is incredibly powerful and it will actively hurt other private figure skating academies who don't have the legal or financial resources that Plushy can command. (Not to mention his other skaters.)

Exactly.

There is a practical reason as well.

If she leaves just because she wants to, what precedent does that set? The Plushenko academy will just look like pushovers and open the floodgates for anyone else potentially looking to do the same.

I mean the spin here is amazing.

One person decided on her own accord to leave. Plushenko should be compensated. It’s not that difficult. People just can’t act on impulses in a business setting.

She is not a victim in this situation.

I never understood why if you are a fan of someone you have to stick by them even if they do wrong. It doesn’t make you less of a fan if you criticize your favorites.

If Liza pulled this stunt, I would be first to side with Plushenko too. Being a fan of someone doesn’t make them a perfect human that can do no wrong.

I don’t know why Eteri would take her back anyway. It’s just a headache.

It reminds me of someone cheating on you with someone else, it doesn’t work out and then they want to come back to you. No thanks.

 

[Fantik]

Wonder if Aliona's mother sold her to slavery, would such a contract stand? No. So let Aliona's mother pay whatever she owes and let the athlete be.

 

[Shayuki]

Random interesting tidbit on Anna's SS. I really do think she's improved massively. I was looking at her RusNats SP step sequence and her edges are really quite clean, better than Kamila's (or maybe it's just the shape of the Edea Pianos). Obviously Kamila's is better overall, as she has better speed through the steps (in her first cluster she manages to maintain most of her speed, while in Anna's she dramatically slows down) and I do think her steps look far more effortless. Just interesting that Anna's edges are really quite impressive. In the RusNats SP the only turn that looked kind of meh in terms of edge quality was first rocker (the left counterclockwise one), where it looked like she mostly relied on the position of her leg to push onto an outside edge.

Also is it just me or does it look like the back half of Anna's blade comes off the ice in her right clockwise bracket turn towards the end of the step sequence? Would this count as "hopping" or "cheating"?

Her skating skills have improved quite a bit indeed. She had serious issues with cheating on the steps... Not that she still doesn't, but her glide and edge depth at least have gotten far better.

And the last bracket should be fine to me, but the counter right before it looks clearly hopped to me and should be invalid. But I don't think that would hurt levels in this case.

 

[Jontor]

People keep saying that Kostornaia is so talented and has so great skating skills and so on...and that she might be the greatest skater ever.
Well, I'm not so sure. For me, she has always been an Eteri product. In fact, she is the typical example of an Eteri product.

Look at this. Russian Junior Nationals feb 2017. She's 13. She didn't even qualify for this...she got the spot because Shcherbakova broke her arm before the contest. She finished 16th. And the likes of Talalaikina, Vasilieva, Samodurova, Nugumanova, Guliakova, Gubanova and nine other girls all beat her.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

She has the same tech as she has today. And did you recognise that entry into the Flip? It's the same "wonderful creative entry" she later used into her 3A. There is nothing special here, and especially not great skating skills. It was an ok skate, she didn't fall, but it was nothing special. She had great posture, I give her that, and that is something that some people think equals artistic ability.

She changed coach after this and went to Eteri. And 10 months later in dec 2017 at her first Russian SENIOR nationals we got this:

- YouTube

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She finished 3rd in her senior debut. Same tech as before. But everything is now polished. The Eteri team made wonders with her in just 10 months. And I guess this is the greatness of the Eteri team. They are masterful in disguising her tech weaknesses.

And what happened when she left Eteri. We were immediately back to step seq lev 2. And it doesn't matter with all the excuses - not enough training, injury, sickness etc... It is obvious to me that the greatness of Kostornaia has always been about the Eteri team.

Now, don't get me wrong. As a Russian Ladies fan I support all Russian ladies including Kostornaia, but if I have to pin them against each other, Kostornaia falls rather down the list. She really is not that special to me. Just my opinion.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

She’s the one wearing pants, but Plushenko is okay with everything she does, so it’s the same thing

Sort of, but I do wonder what the consequences for Plushenko would be if he disagreed with her?
It's tricky to balance personal and professional relationships in family businesses.

 

[silveruskate]

People keep saying that Kostornaia is so talented and has so great skating skills and so on...and that she might be the greatest skater ever.
Well, I'm not so sure. For me, she has always been an Eteri product. In fact, she is the typical example of an Eteri product.

Look at this. Russian Junior Nationals feb 2017. She's 13. She didn't even qualify for this...she got the spot because Shcherbakova broke her arm before the contest. She finished 16th. And the likes of Talalaikina, Vasilieva, Samodurova, Nugumanova, Guliakova, Gubanova and nine other girls all beat her.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

She has the same tech as she has today. And did you recognise that entry into the Flip? It's the same "wonderful creative entry" she later used into her 3A. There is nothing special here, and especially not great skating skills. It was an ok skate, she didn't fall, but it was nothing special. She had great posture, I give her that, and that is something that some people think equals artistic ability.

She changed coach after this and went to Eteri. And 10 months later at her first Russian SENIOR nationals we got this:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

She finished 3rd in her senior debut. Same tech as before. But everything is now polished. The Eteri team made wonders with her in just 10 months. And I guess this is the greatness of the Eteri team. They are masterful in disguising her tech weaknesses.

And what happened when she left Eteri. We were immediately back to step seq lev 2. And it doesn't matter with all the excuses - not enough training, injury, sickness etc... It is obvious to me that the greatness of Kostornaia has always been about the Eteri team.

Now, don't get me wrong. As a Russian Ladies fan I support all Russian ladies including Kostornaia, but if I have to pin them against each other, Kostornaia falls rather down the list. She really is not that special to me. Just my opinion.

Sure let's throw all the efforts of the skaters out the window. They did nothing, they're just products. So much effort for such a ridiculous post.

 

[Jontor]

Sure let's throw all the efforts of the skaters out the window. They did nothing, they're just products. So much effort for such a ridiculous post.

I take it you disagree then...

 

[silveruskate]

I take it you disagree then...

Of course. It's plain disrespectful and nothing else.

 

[JazzUp]

I do wonder what the consequences for Plushenko would be if he disagreed with her?

Rudkovskaya: " I don't have any problem with Yevgeniy disagreeing with me, but my legal department has."

 

[icybear]

Surely the all powerful Russian fed can do something to save Alena from Yana the debt collector. There's a rumour that Alena uncle is Alexander Lakernik, the guy involved in masterminding Adelina sochi win. Surely he can work his magic for a much greater cause this time.

 

[Jontor]

Of course. It's plain disrespectful and nothing else.

Hey. It was just my opinion, nothing else...what is disrespectful about it? That I don't share your opnion?

 

[Paulipau]

People keep saying that Kostornaia is so talented and has so great skating skills and so on...and that she might be the greatest skater ever.
Well, I'm not so sure. For me, she has always been an Eteri product. In fact, she is the typical example of an Eteri product.

Look at this. Russian Junior Nationals feb 2017. She's 13. She didn't even qualify for this...she got the spot because Shcherbakova broke her arm before the contest. She finished 16th. And the likes of Talalaikina, Vasilieva, Samodurova, Nugumanova, Guliakova, Gubanova and nine other girls all beat her.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

She has the same tech as she has today. And did you recognise that entry into the Flip? It's the same "wonderful creative entry" she later used into her 3A. There is nothing special here, and especially not great skating skills. It was an ok skate, she didn't fall, but it was nothing special. She had great posture, I give her that, and that is something that some people think equals artistic ability.

She changed coach after this and went to Eteri. And 10 months later in dec 2017 at her first Russian SENIOR nationals we got this:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

She finished 3rd in her senior debut. Same tech as before. But everything is now polished. The Eteri team made wonders with her in just 10 months. And I guess this is the greatness of the Eteri team. They are masterful in disguising her tech weaknesses.

And what happened when she left Eteri. We were immediately back to step seq lev 2. And it doesn't matter with all the excuses - not enough training, injury, sickness etc... It is obvious to me that the greatness of Kostornaia has always been about the Eteri team.

Now, don't get me wrong. As a Russian Ladies fan I support all Russian ladies including Kostornaia, but if I have to pin them against each other, Kostornaia falls rather down the list. She really is not that special to me. Just my opinion.

This hurts me, it hurts my insides and outsides.

For me Alyona was the only skater that used to make me feel like the music was composed to her movements, not the other way around...

And noone can make me feel this way again
Sadly she has been degrading since her junior seasons, they covered it up with with the 3A last season but this season we just have a struggling staker who needs help. Somehow someway someone please help her and bring her back

 

[Decoder]

Lets look at it this this way: We have student loans here, depending on your grades and stuff part of your loan will become grants and you never have to pay it back.
HOWEVER, if you suddenly drop ALL your courses or you fail them ALL, you will be asked to pay that portion of the money back immediately (unlike the rest of the loan that can be paid back after your graduation, this portion has to be paid back immediately)

Now Aliona was attending an expensive private school and got "private funds" for her "studies". But she suddenly decided to drop all her courses and leave that school (or maybe failed all her courses), So the organization that was funding her "studies" has given her a warning and wants the money back... How is that unfair?

Really, a part of loan can become grants? I don't know much about the loan stuff, but that is cool.

I agree. We have a established system for getting and paying back the loan. I trust the system, it is fair.

My point was that things in other countries are different. According to some posts, the plush school is actually introducing the western-style contract, so I guess not everyone in Russia is on board yet, or if that style of contract is even legal in Russia.

Fair or not, that's up for debate. For example, Aliona could get plenty ice time in Sambo70, and as a national team member, she is entitled to get free ice time, so should Plush charge her for that? If yes, that means Aliona is not even getting basic service. I don't know if she is charged for that or not, I am just giving you an example. So fairness wise, we really don't know unless we can take a look at the contract.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

And I guess this is the greatness of the Eteri team. They are masterful in disguising her tech weaknesses.

General question, would you prefer a coach that disguises technical weaknesses to achieve quicker success, or a coach that corrects these specific weaknesses but causes the skater's scores to suffer for a while till they get better? I am not alluding to TT vs AOP or claiming they fall into either category, by the way (and it's not an absolute dichotomy either).

Are there any examples of the latter coaching approach? Perhaps Mao Asada post-Vancouver - did that pay off, though?

 

[Jontor]

This hurts me, it hurts my insides and outsides.

For me Alyona was the only skater that used to make me feel like the music was composed to her movements, not the other way around...

And noone can make me feel this way again
Sadly she has been degrading since her junior seasons, they covered it up with with the 3A last season but this season we just have a struggling staker who needs help. Somehow someway someone please help her and bring her back

I agree. And I think that it might be that Alyona is rather difficult to coach. With the right coach she might regain her magic.