2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[gliese]

Sheryl Franks hated the 2/3T whereas her partner, Micheal, has always considered it the easiest jump. They had the same coach so were taught the same technique. It really just comes down to what a person finds the most natural and as @kolyadafan2002 said, fear is also a huge factor. Fear is the reason I landed my double lutz before my double toe-loop.

 

[Dawn825]

It's been so weird to me to see skaters learning quads out of order, cuz I just assumed they should be learned in order. But now that I think back, I started learning a double loop while I was still working on my single axel. Toes and sals are in a way harder versions of an axel so I wasn't going to be able to do them until I could do an axel, but a loop is completely different. Now I wonder if some people generally find the weight transfer in a/t/s harder than just doing more rotations over the right side in l/f/lz.

 

[silveruskate]

Skaters of 2010-2020 aren't used to doing Toe-loops as a solo jump so I get why it would be more uncomfortable and unnatural. But with practise, I think it has to be easier. Almost all of the juniors do 4Ts first, and it looks effortless.

 

[Amei]

It's been so weird to me to see skaters learning quads out of order, cuz I just assumed they should be learned in order. But now that I think back, I started learning a double loop while I was still working on my single axel. Toes and sals are in a way harder versions of an axel so I wasn't going to be able to do them until I could do an axel, but a loop is completely different. Now I wonder if some people generally find the weight transfer in a/t/s harder than just doing more rotations over the right side in l/f/lz.

Well it might be strategy to learn the highest values quads first, lutz and flip are worth 11 points, if you get the full rotation called and fall you are still sitting okay in points. Shcherbakova did better point wise at the GPF falling on the 4F than she was getting for a landed double axel

 

[chasingneverland]

Well it might be strategy to learn the highest values quads first, lutz and flip are worth 11 points, if you get the full rotation called and fall you are still sitting okay in points. Shcherbakova did better point wise at the GPF falling on the 4F than she was getting for a landed double axel

Yeah, but with Anna it was also injury motivated. Anna actually got her 4T first. Then she got seriously injured and has been unable to do the 4T (or train it for years) and that also affected the 4S. (Although she is working a little bit on the 4T again now.)

 

[Shayuki]

Well it might be strategy to learn the highest values quads first, lutz and flip are worth 11 points, if you get the full rotation called and fall you are still sitting okay in points. Shcherbakova did better point wise at the GPF falling on the 4F than she was getting for a landed double axel

For her it also is that due to her broken leg she'll probably struggle to learn 4T, 4S, 3A at all, although it might be a bit better after 4 years. Still, I broke my ribcage some 3 years ago and I still can't bench press at all so who knows how long it'll take.

 

[silveruskate]

Yana Rudkovskaya is a figure skating commentator and not a coach so she should go here, right?

Alina's comments are dangerous! Even mentioning the possibility of coming back, and Rudkovskaya quickly comes up with a long interview about it:

«Если Загитова вернется, будет самой обсуждаемой звездой Олимпиады». Мнение Рудковской

Известный продюсер и жена Евгения Плющенко — о возвращении Загитовой, уходе Косторной и гениальности Мишина.

m.sport-express.ru

Also discussing Kostornaia inevitably.

 

[Scott512]

Yana Rudkovskaya is a figure skating commentator and not a coach so she should go here, right?

Alina's comments are dangerous! Even mentioning the possibility of coming back, and Rudkovskaya quickly comes up with a long interview about it:

«Если Загитова вернется, будет самой обсуждаемой звездой Олимпиады». Мнение Рудковской

Известный продюсер и жена Евгения Плющенко — о возвращении Загитовой, уходе Косторной и гениальности Мишина.

m.sport-express.ru

Also discussing Kostornaia inevitably.

Yana was really good in that interview. I was pleasantly surprised. But I don't think she will ever get Alina. She doesn't need their money.

Alina may return competitively. Let's hope it happens.

 

[colormyworld240]

Yes and no. From my recollection, I've never heard a skater at Alina's level when asked say their favorite jump was triple-toe or triple-sal, almost definitely because they're the easiest and the skater doesn't want to sound lame. Also, when a jump gets too easy it stops giving you any satisfaction to land it, and so wouldn't be your favorite. Your favorite jump is going to be one you're good at but also has to be sufficiently hard enough that you feel good about yourself for being good at. So not always the easiest. It's definitely possible that the toe and sal are uncomfortable jumps for Alina, but even if they weren't she would never say they were her favorite jumps.

Like others said, Evgenia was always open about her favourite being the 3S. Alena also said her least favourite was 3Lo, which isn't the "easiest". They just have different jumps that they prefer, and ones that come more naturally to them. If they were all doing it for pride, everyone would say they like 3Lz most and 2A least.

Sasha was also asked and she said she had no favourites or least favourites, she likes them all.

I remember Alina elaborating on the 3T, how she doesn't like to jump it unless she needs to in combination (ie. once in the free program to maximize her layout, or when it was a requirement in juniors).

 

[starlight97]

I have only the necessary basic techniqual knowledge to understand scores and layouts, nothing deeper so someone please enlighten me- why does an old broken leg prevent one from jumping a 4T more than a 4F or 4Lz? Don't they all put immense pressure on the hind leg that slamps into the ice to take off?

 

[JazzUp]

why does an old broken leg prevent one from jumping a 4T more than a 4F or 4Lz? Don't they all put immense pressure on the hind leg that slamps into the ice to take off

difference is in "the hind leg that slams into the ice to take off" - for T she has to use her "old broken leg"

 

[nussnacker]

Yana Rudkovskaya is a figure skating commentator and not a coach so she should go here, right?

Alina's comments are dangerous! Even mentioning the possibility of coming back, and Rudkovskaya quickly comes up with a long interview about it:

«Если Загитова вернется, будет самой обсуждаемой звездой Олимпиады». Мнение Рудковской

Известный продюсер и жена Евгения Плющенко — о возвращении Загитовой, уходе Косторной и гениальности Мишина.

m.sport-express.ru

Also discussing Kostornaia inevitably.

Lmfao, the part where she says Plushenko has to consider whether to take Alina or not, because he considers his options carefully, is absolutely hilarious. Is she trying to be a stand up comedian?

 

[flanker]

Lmfao, the part where she says Plushenko has to consider whether to take Alina or not, because he considers his options carefully, is absolutely hilarious. Is she trying to be a stand up comedian?

Well, I don't understand why they even ask HER about it. But I like this part:

So that there is no such thing that Konstantinova, Ryabova, Kostornaya left Plushenko, they did not leave Plushenko, they left the academy from their coaches. No one is interested in writing that Kostornaya left Rozanov.

Nothing like having such employers, has to be a dream job.

 

[Vilord]

I have only the necessary basic techniqual knowledge to understand scores and layouts, nothing deeper so someone please enlighten me- why does an old broken leg prevent one from jumping a 4T more than a 4F or 4Lz? Don't they all put immense pressure on the hind leg that slamps into the ice to take off?

This is actually rather common and happened to Sasha as well this year with her sprained ankle. For a skater that jumps the "normal" way (counter clockwise) and lands on the right leg an injury to the right leg/fot/ankle/knee will stop you from jumping all together because there is no way of jumping without putting strain on that leg when landing. If you however injure your left leg/fot/ankle/knee you can usually jump Loop, Flip and Lutz without to much issue since these jumps mainly puts strain in the right side during takeoff. (We have however heard of cases where Lutz is also problematic due to the edge on the left leg, most notably Rika last season)
However Toeloop, Salchow and Axle puts the main strain on the left leg during takoff and can therefore be more difficult to jump than the other jumps when you have an injury on the left side. I belive the leg Anna broke was the left and that can leave that leg weaker than the other for a long time and could be a contributing factor to why we havent seen 4T, 4S or 3A from Anna. This was also the reason stated for why Sasha didnt attempt either of these jumps at RuNats after her injury at Rostelecom (but she seems to have healed enought to get at least the 4T back again).

 

[brakes]

Alyona Krivonosova and Daria Sarymsakova put on a show in SP of the younger group Russian Novice Nats!
Warning: firearms presence!

 

[Skatesocs]

So that there is no such thing that Konstantinova, Ryabova, Kostornaya left Plushenko, they did not leave Plushenko, they left the academy from their coaches. No one is interested in writing that Kostornaya left Rozanov.

lol

 

[Dawn825]

I remember Alina elaborating on the 3T, how she doesn't like to jump it unless she needs to in combination (ie. once in the free program to maximize her layout, or when it was a requirement in juniors).

This is interesting to me because Alina actually has great toe loop technique - perhaps that's what makes it harder.

 

[Amei]

Lmfao, the part where she says Plushenko has to consider whether to take Alina or not, because he considers his options carefully, is absolutely hilarious. Is she trying to be a stand up comedian?

Well to provide context to everyone about what she said (below is the comment concerning the theoretical "taking Zagitova on"): - she points out that Zagitova thrives in the environment that Sambo has but the environment that AoP has is different.

f we go back to some of the commentary on this board with Kostornaia at Plushenko a lot of us were saying the environment doesn't appear to work for her. If you want to analyze her comments about them taking Zagitova by her words in the interview alone: they aren't going to take her to strictly take a famous athlete, the environment they have for their skaters doesn't necessarily work for everyone and if a skater isn't going to do things their (AoP's) way or the environment doesn't work for them - they shouldn't be taking the athletes into their club.

- Zagitova is a big name.

- The question is whether Plushenko will take it. He accepts everyone in dosage, because there is not enough of him for everyone. They ask for a lot - there are conditions, there is ice, but after the story with Alena Kostornaya, we will approach the answer “yes” in a very metered manner. Alina is good at training at her headquarters. They know her very well there, there is a lot of competition among girls. Alena Kostornaya, this is exactly what was not enough in the end. Evgeny has a more individual approach, his own system, like Mishin's. Those who agree to follow this system have good results - Titova jumped three and a half and won all previous starts. Trusova and Muravyova became the third in adult and junior Russia, Zhilina is gaining momentum after injuries and illness. I don’t want to be told: “We are going to Plushenko,” and completely different coaches work with them. After all the stories so as not to associate with anyone later, I will categorically discourage taking without clear commitments. We have good athletes, whom Evgeny is personally involved in. Many people ask for the May window - both girls and boys, with ultra-si and without. I don’t want it to be so that athletes have one right, and coaches have one responsibility. Therefore, if we take someone, it will be very selective.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Oh my, Russian theatre really is wild Rather than 2 sides there seem to be many...

Spoiler: More ballet stuff

As an outsider with limited information, I can only state my belief (regarding the root of the dispute over the direction of the company) that the Bolshoi benefited a lot from performing new works - creations, reconstructions or good stuff from outside. Ratmansky's Flames of Paris and the Bright Stream have become signature Bolshoi productions. To me, apart from their drama (on stage, I mean), this openness to innovation is what sets them apart stylistically as a company from the Mariinsky (who built their identity around the preservation of classical traditions, but sometimes get criticised for stagnation). In the last decade they've stayed on that route (Taming of the Shrew, Nureyev etc.) and it definitely doesn't look to have hurt them in terms of classical technique. Striking a balance between new and old is a challenge most companies have to face, with some faring better than others (e.g Royal under Kevin O'Hare, though nobody's immune to detractors). Perhaps in Russia the involvement of politicians and businessmen escalates things...

Regarding Vaganova, thanks for the clarification about Dorofeeva. At least my perception of the opposition to Tsiskaridze at Vaganova is that it's not simply that they don't trust Moscovites, but they're afraid of losing the stylistic identity of the St Petersburg school (a style that some might consider antiquated). Although there are many Vaganova alumni among the teaching staff and artistic director so personally I don't think it's a huge concern... The only difference I noticed when I visited a few years ago was a weird class leotard colour scheme and a ban on Gaynors (sensible). I'm just not a fan of government directly interfering with school management. It would be great if he is universally welcomed, and if he put a stop to alleged embezzlement, although both of these points come from his own accounts. P.S. not sure what Filin was complaining about since Smirnova came to the Bolshoi in 2011...

Yes, the figure skating Russian Ladies drama looks like nice, friendly and behaving when compared to Russian ballet's.
It's fortunate by the way, because most skaters are minors.
Of course, I don't think anybody criticised Ratmansky's restaging of Flames of Paris for instance. And it is in the part of classical ballet. His restaging some more classical ballets was a bit less sensitive sometimes, he's better at self-promotion maybe but the chief concern was not this, it was his will of going from a 70% classical/30% modern (manageable without too many injuries) to a 50/50, unmanageable unless two specialised corps are set up; and to no avail as very few Bolshoi dancers were really good at modern ballet. They had problems even with Balanchine (they are progressing now). So there was no reason to do it and every reason to worry, and Svetlana Zakharova and Nikolay Tsiskaridze saved the situation. They belong to the few at the Bolshoi who can dance all styles, and would have been at personal advantage with more modern ballet, more publicised, but they are also knowledgeable and sensible and devoted to their troop.
And you speak of presidential ukase, there was, but this policy of imposing too much modern ballet was also an ukase, from oligarchs. Not more commendable I think. And they were clearly wrong.
And I saw only a few minutes of Nureyev (in its July '19 version) and I had a feeling of an ersatz of Decouflé, really nothing exciting, and above all, unworthy of The Bolshoi. I felt the hype to be purely mediatic. Yet there was "my dear" Maria Alexandrova.
About the Moscow/St Petersburg prejudice, you are right, this was the main part of it. I don't know if Nikolay Tsiskaridze's communication has been good (usually his weak point) in recalling his greatest stylistic influences were from the Vaganova school (there I'd say yes) and that the main difference between the two styles is the size of the stage (there he may have oversimplified to be clearer; it may well have been the one chief cause but he omitted to explicit at least some consequences, while he did perceive them). But as soon as a year later he had quieted all worries, and that's the most important. Some reproach him to train some students for Bolshoi, but I think he feels who is made for one and who is made for the other, and with his school being as large as the Moscow Choreographic School I think, and the Mariinsky having only 70 dancers and the Bolshoi 200, isn't it understandable? And, of course, he has always been keen on learning from great professors and of course has the highest respect to them. Probably more than his predecessor.
Right about Olga Smirnova! She's Vaganova '11 though. In 2013 Sergei Filin complained after having seen the new Vaganova class. Yet she was a recent graduate.
As to embezzlement, there were condemnations about around 3M$ at the Bolshoi a few years ago but he's already warned he'd dive in all accounting books when he's Bolshoi director. And he couldn't have declared he had uncovered those embezzlements at Vaganova if there hadn't been and/or if they had not been at least in a judicial process.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Well the older girls have finished for Younger Age Nationals. We have a surprising winner in Alisa Dvoeglazova. I do think she has potential and I prefer her SP over her FS (common trend for novices), but there are definitely a lot of things that her team can work on to make her an even better skater. Sofia Titova came second, much to my surprise. I do like Titova and I think the last few moments of her SP are fantastic but Je Suis Malade is not the first choice i’d give a 12 year old (is she even 12?) She does well enough with it and I notice she has fantastic speed across the ice but the edges need work and she could use some refinement in her arms and upper body movement. Liza Kulikova came third with a fantastic SP and FS. I’m so happy for her! I used to dislike the FS, but Liza really sold me on it in her step sequence. The SP was fantastic IMO. She really performed (both in movement and expression) through the entire program. Daria Sadkova finished fourth, which might be a bit disappointing, but i do think her artistry was a step ahead of everyone here (at least in the FS i felt she was a bit disconnected from her music in the SP). She really needs to build some jump consistency though.