2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Scott512]

Yup, that's the one that has gone on several times about how Aliona's skating skills are overrated and how she was overscored by judges. But now, it's "Judges scored Anna's skating skills higher but apparently you don't agree. That's not how you argue, though. It's appeal to authority".
At least keep it consistent LOL.

It's weird how they seem to be reasonable on just about every other topic and suddenly gets tunnel vision for Anna. You can never convince them on anything even slightly negative about Anna's skating, so don't bother. I think even someone who's watched skating for a month can tell Miyahara and Kaori have better skating skills.

Everyone in the Anna army knows she's not the perfect skater. She does enough things well where she can win and win big against superior skaters and bigger jumpers.

 

[[email protected]]

Now, come on, that‘s ridiculous.

Looks like Nadya changed the dress.

 

[Scott512]

What are the chances that the team will be something other than Shcherbakova, Trusova, Valieva? Kostornaya would likely need to actually learn a quad, just the 3A might not even be enough, and Khromykh is quite the wildcard.

And Dasha!

Alyona will have her triple axel back and a 4S by nationals in December. Even if she doesn't have a quad she will be able to score 240 points at the Olympics with just her triple axel and being the most beautiful skater in the world. That alone could get her on the podium and possibly win gold.

 

[Scott512]

Sadly for Aliona, given her lack of self-discipline and self-motivation, and the critical public statements she made last year, she will not be a priority for TeamTut, even assuming she survives the probationary period, which is still uncertain. Even if she gets her 3A back (which is the best-case scenario she can hope for), it will not be enough to compete against ladies who have both 3A and/or more than one quad. Her PCS have taken a hit too, and missing worlds won't do her any favors either. But if Shcherbakova and Valieva struggle really hard next year and have a season like Zagitova or Medvedeva post-Olympics, and none of the juniors is competitive enough, she might have a chance.

Man you paint a bleak picture for a great skater. Alyona is back at TT for the guidance and push she needs in her career. And the occasion or kick and the you know what.

 

[dhjh811]

You might want to read my post again, seems you misunderstood it. I specifically said that I am not saying that.
What? Plenty of times I've criticized her when others thought she was good. And I used to think that skating skills were holding her back, right? However, over the time she's greatly improved her skating skills. I simply recognize that.

But to even suggest that as a possible argument is quite ironic, right?

I too agree that Anna's skating skills have improved! However, I don't understand why you are arguing against some skaters who clearly DO have better skating skills not having better skating skills... I'm also not sure why you're saying Rika's skating is labored and slower than Anna's. Could you explain why exactly you think that?

And I would honestly attribute that feeling as if they were "floating on ice" more to other skaters like Aliona or Kaori. Even more Rika...

 

[Shayuki]

And Dasha!

Alyona will have her triple axel back and a 4S by nationals in December. Even if she doesn't have a quad she will be able to score 240 points at the Olympics with just her triple axel and being the most beautiful skater in the world. That alone could get her on the podium and possibly win gold.

Yeaaaaah that's up for debate, but.

If the Olympics scoring is as inflated than usual, she could score well above 240 depending on the scoring favorability she receives. 250 would probably be a theoretical possibility. 260 would be tough, she'd need to build momentum over the course of the season.

 

[lopsilceci]

It's a good sign for a skater when people have nothing to pick apart but things like knee softness and posture. It means everything else is strong. Keep it up Anna!!

It's the overall quality of technical elements AND performance that make you champion, not just who has softest knees and arms or deeper edges.

My immediate impression after the skates was that Rika would be first, but it's reaaally close anyway between her and Anna, so it really comes down to the FS and it can really go either way, so I don't know why everyone's so mad.

Rika got q calls but those don't really do anything. I am surprised about the GOE on her 3A, I would make it higher because it looked so effortless, even if it wasn't fully rotated on close inspection. Her performance was very strong. That cartwheel looked awesome. Hope she also has a good FS.

Anna does have an optimized layout and her jumps and everything else was very strong. The only mistake was the stumble and it wasn't really obvious or disruptive, so no big deal.

Now, the PCS difference between Rika and Anna makes sense considering that Anna has had better international results last season and she's kept her consistency and is currently Russian #1 senior.

I'm so sad for Sasha
I'm afraid she will have to go for all the quads now, which was what I was fearing she would do. I just hope she gets the redemption she deserves and is happy with her performance after the FS.

ETA: Almost forgot, Liza!!! Keep it up and maybe she can medal. It would be cool.

 

[dhjh811]

Everyone in the Anna army knows she's not the perfect skater. She does enough things well where she can win and win big against superior skaters and bigger jumpers.

Yes, I never said the opposite?

 

[Tally]

Thanks for calling it like it is, Tally. Don't worry too much about who might get triggered by your posts. Everyone is entitled to post their opinions on here, and you would not be the first to observe a clear pattern of outcomes in a certain training camp.

 

[Shayuki]

But to even suggest that as a possible argument is quite ironic, right?

I too agree that Anna's skating skills have improved! However, I don't understand why you are arguing against some skaters who clearly DO have better skating skills not having better skating skills... I'm also not sure why you're saying Rika's skating is labored and slower than Anna's. Could you explain why exactly you think that?

And I would honestly attribute that feeling as if they were "floating on ice" more to other skaters like Aliona or Kaori. Even more Rika...

It's not ironic, because the person I was talking to was specifically presenting such an argument. And I was saying that that's not how you argue(appeal to authority logical fallacy). I generally prefer to not do logical fallacies, I argue my points, I show examples, I explain things.

I'm arguing against it because I don't think they showed better skating skills, obviously.

In comparison to Shcherbakova who's in complete control of her upper body while skating and has very smooth and effortless movements, the others look so labored. Now, that's interesting, since Shcherbakova used to have a huge issue with this, she would actually struggle a ton with smooth movements and couldn't even make turns without swinging and her upper body was all over the place. However, that's no longer the case and she's so silky smooth, with very few jerky movements. And so beautiful to watch, even doing crossovers or random transitions. I love next to nothing more than beautiful skating skills so I couldn't be happier.

Then, we still have people thinking her skating skills are poor, or that she deserves a 6.5. Shrug.

For me, I've not been able to enjoy a lady's skating skills a great deal ever since Alexandra Proklova, but Shcherbakova will soon be there I hope. Although Proklova had that full ballet background, such a divine combination...

 

[nussnacker]

I’m going to leave this here and go to bed. But I came on here as an amateur skater and fan wanting to learn more about the top figure skaters we all follow and look up to. I posted for the first time in this group, bc I love and admire the Russian female skaters, and have followed many of your posts over the past year. But you know what? I wish I hadn’t. Besides for one or two kind poster’s responses, this has just been an ugly back and forth. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but have some couth, guys. I’m out.

Don’t get upset. You might find some things where you disagree with and agree with, with the same users. Happens to me all the time.
I didn’t reply, because I am not too interested in counting scores for a hypothetical scenario. Perhaps that why others ignored your question too.

Estimating it roughly, I would think Sasha wins 1st, Kamila comes 2nd, Anna 3rd. Though that’s a physical demand of impossible difficulty, only god knows which of them will be able to perform clean, given how hard their contents are.

 

[Tally]

Btw this is a “subjective” sport, meaning, by its very definition, it’s up to the spectator/judges to decide if it’s “good” or “bad”. It’s not so black and white as football, or soccer. Which leaves all the room for art, bc, let’s face it, art is subjective. Not everyone likes a Kusama painting. What one deems as good, another may find less appealing. That’s it. Looking forward to tomorrow’s competition!

 

[dhjh811]

It's not ironic, because the person I was talking to was specifically presenting such an argument. And I was saying that that's not how you argue(appeal to authority logical fallacy). I generally prefer to not do logical fallacies, I argue my points, I show examples, I explain things.

I'm arguing against it because I don't think they showed better skating skills, obviously.

In comparison to Shcherbakova who's in complete control of her upper body while skating and has very smooth and effortless movements, the others look so labored. Now, that's interesting, since Shcherbakova used to have a huge issue with this, she would actually struggle a ton with smooth movements and couldn't even make turns without swinging and her upper body was all over the place. However, that's no longer the case and she's so silky smooth, with very few jerky movements. And so beautiful to watch, even doing crossovers or random transitions. I love next to nothing more than beautiful skating skills so I couldn't be happier.

Then, we still have people thinking her skating skills are poor, or that she deserves a 6.5. Shrug.

Ok, I got your first point.

As for the others, I think you might be saying that in general, other skaters might have better skating skills but didn't necessarily show it today? I guess that would be more reasonable, but I honestly am not seeing this effortlessness in her skating that is above Rika, Kaori, or Miyahara. I think she moves like a feather, really light and dainty, but I've never attributed that quality to strong skating skills. She's moved beautifully since she was a novice and junior skater. I do know that she has improved a lot though. I guess I'm just not seeing it in the way that you also think Rika's skating is slow and labored compared to Anna's...

But she doesn't deserve a 6.5 obviously. Just maybe... not as crazy high scores in SS.

 

[Anya00]

If Sasha goes for her five quad program what mistakes would the others need to make for her to win or would she win regardless?

 

[lopsilceci]

Looks like Nadya changed the dress.

Their strong dislike for Anna is suspicious.
We'll have to ask their opinion about Rozanov to be sure.

 

[flanker]

Looks like Nadya changed the dress.

That's what I have in mind too

 

[eterialskating]

She’s entitled to her opinions, just as you are.

Huh! Running off here to vent their frustrations and then claiming every single skater was better than Anna. A complete denial of reality FYI. I'm sorry I don't buy nor give time to those kinds of opinions. Anna was head and shoulders above this crowd in terms of musicality and interpretation.

 

[silveruskate]

You got a lot of nerve to utter the ethereal Anna Shcherbakova in the same sentence as Sakamoto. If you want to watch a speed skating contest by all means you can enjoy Sakamoto. I have no interest in her skating and honestly she's irrelevant in this thread so why is she being force into the discussion. It seems the result today rattled the usual suspects.

If you like Kaori so much, NHK FS 2020 StSq is even better!

 

[[email protected]]

It's not ironic, because the person I was talking to was specifically presenting such an argument. And I was saying that that's not how you argue(appeal to authority logical fallacy). I generally prefer to not do logical fallacies, I argue my points, I show examples, I explain things.

I'm arguing against it because I don't think they showed better skating skills, obviously.

In comparison to Shcherbakova who's in complete control of her upper body while skating and has very smooth and effortless movements, the others look so labored. Now, that's interesting, since Shcherbakova used to have a huge issue with this, she would actually struggle a ton with smooth movements and couldn't even make turns without swinging and her upper body was all over the place. However, that's no longer the case and she's so silky smooth, with very few jerky movements. And so beautiful to watch, even doing crossovers or random transitions. I love next to nothing more than beautiful skating skills so I couldn't be happier.

Then, we still have people thinking her skating skills are poor, or that she deserves a 6.5. Shrug.

For me, I've not been able to enjoy a lady's skating skills a great deal ever since Alexandra Proklova, but Shcherbakova will soon be there I hope. Although Proklova had that full ballet background, such a divine combination...

We have to live with the reality that no matter what happens on ice there are people here who will claim that Kaori has superior skating skills to Anna.

I don't go to lutz corner or other sections here - may be there are detailed tutorials on skating skills where, say, there are side by side comparisons of crossovers, steps etc. with explanations why skater A has superior and skater B inferior skating skills. They can use Kaori vs. Anna example. Goldenskate may become as bold as to send those tutorials to ISU because according to some ISU judges have no idea about what good skatings skills are. Well, all of them from all countries gave high marks to Anna which once again according to some mean that they have no idea about the sport they are judging...

As for me, Kaori was uninspiring today - much worse than during her best performances. This SP does liitle to her strengths. She looked like Wakaba just moving around with high speed not addressing the music.

 

[Skatesocs]

Then, we still have people thinking her skating skills are poor, or that she deserves a 6.5. Shrug.

I don't think she has "6.5" level skills either, nor are they poor. I just think there's something to be said about her skating skills, because her technique to produce edges won't really be fixed in the span of a few months (Orser couldn't do it with Medvedeva, for example). She did do a good job.