2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[chasingneverland]

For Maiia I would add that apart from Sasha and Anna she is only the third lady who landed two different quads in one program (as for the other two of course). Similarly Kamila is only the second lady (after Alysa Liu and with Rika as the third), who landed clean 3A and a quad in one program.

She didn't do that internationally. Otherwise Anna would be the first to land a 4Lz.

Same with Kamila. Also Kamila hasn't landed both cleanly in a program where we have protocols for it anyway.

Regardless, I wouldn't have included it anyway. I didn't include anywhere were ladies weren't the first to do something. Only the first and current records were mentioned.

 

[flanker]

She didn't do that internationally. Otherwise Anna would be the first to land a 4Lz.

Same with Kamila.

Regardless, I wouldn't have included it anyway. I didn't include anywhere were ladies weren't the first to do something. Only the first and current records were mentioned.

She would be

We can all see Kamila and Sofia landing 4T+3T+Eu+3S, after all



I understood it the way it was about the capabilities, not just about the "records" achieved only internationally, after all domestic titles are included in your list too.

 

[chasingneverland]

She would be

We can all see Kamila and Sofia landing 4T+3T+Eu+3S, after all



I understood it the way it was about the capabilities, not just about the "records" achieved only internationally, after all domestic titles are included in your list too.

Yes and Anna's landed a 4T+3T+3Lo in practice before ever turning junior. She was injured shortly after though. We don't have protocols for any of that regardless.

And regardless as I said second and third and subsequent people to do it aren't mentioned. Anna's second WS standing is the only second mentioned and that's because she's the first Russian.

Also we don't even know if Maiia will be third - Kamila or someone else might beat her to that. And regardless I didn't include anyone who wasn't first, any non international/non National medalists, and any broken records.

That's why it's records and titles achieved not potential. And I only included best on best. I didn't include Russian Cup results for any of them because that doesn't apply - the Cup Final has never been best of the best. Domestic titles are mentioned internationally.

Read through the list again, it's what they've ACHIEVED not what they have the potential to achieve.

 

[LiamV426]

Take a look at the content of some of Russia's top skaters:

Trusova: Multiple quads. (3-5 in an FS) Usually lands at least 2-3 of them. (Has done all quads except 4A in practice) Potential 3A.
Shcherbakova: 4Lz, 4F. 1-2 quads in an FS. Almost always perfectly clean.
Kostornaia: 3A? - Hopefully. Maybe quad? - Good, skating skills and high PCS from international judges.
Usacheva: Consistent. Is working on 3A/quad.
Khromykh: 4S, 4T
Valieva: Multiple quads, 3A in SP and FS
Tuktamysheva: 3A in SP. 2 3A's in FS. Potential 4T in FS. (Has landed in practice)

This is insane.

Honestly, it's heartbreaking to think only 3 of these girls get to be on the Olympic team, they're training these insanely risky elements just to be told they can't go in the end?? In 2018 any 1 of them would've made the team so easily with this content and probably won in the end. It's mental how fast the sport has progressed.

I'm so not prepared for next season, it's gonna be amazing and so stressful to watch. Will need group therapy lol.

 

[Amei]

I'm afraid I have to agree with you. It looks grim for Sinitsyna.

I think an important strategy for her would be to go to an early Challenger (and perform well of course). That way she will be high on the SB list and would enter the replacement list for GPs (in case of any other Russian girl gets injured).

I wish that they had the challengers and GPs more spread apart from each other where Feds could allot their GP spots based on qualified performance in the current year vs. the rankings systems that weighs outdated data to determine a skater's ability to get GP events.

 

[chasingneverland]

Honestly, it's heartbreaking to think only 3 of these girls get to be on the Olympic team, they're training these insanely risky elements just to be told they can't go in the end?? In 2018 any 1 of them would've made the team so easily with this content and probably won in the end. It's mental how fast the sport has progressed.

I'm so not prepared for next season, it's gonna be amazing and so stressful to watch. Will need group therapy lol.

Well I mean a peak 2018 Alina and Evgenia would present a challenge to some of them.

A peak 2017-2018 Alina and Evgenia we know can outscore Liza T, even if she has 3As. Even a 2019-2020 Alina could outscore Anna and Sasha in the SP.

A peak 2018 Alina who can backload ALL her jumps actually does present a challenge to even the quadsters as other than Sasha (and maybe?? Kamila) no one else is backloading their quads. And even Sasha struggles with backloaded quads. Backloaded triples does a lot to counteract 3As and quads in the first half. (Look at Anna's SP versus Liza's for example.)

So that's not entirely true that they would "easily" make the team.

 

[starlight97]

Yes, also seems like Misha is doing the same thing now. Why is Mishin letting that happen?

Maybe they train those turn outs on purpose as a preferred safe, since it's better than a step out in their eyes?
Idk, I don't judge her for turning out of her 3A2T all the time, I'm impressed she can land it at all still.
But it does seem like she doesn't even try to hang on to a clean landing and it's become a real habit.
Just wondering why they're not working on it, or if they do why it's not improving.

 

[silveruskate]

That was the general consensus before last season. Everyone thought Sasha would win everything and many suggested Anna should stay junior for another year. Even Tara & Johnny said at SA that she was the overlooked forgotten one...

And later at Nationals very few people believed in her. It was Sasha and Aliona all the way.

It's kinda strange. Even now when she is the WC, I don't see many people predicting she has any chance at any gold medals next season.

I remember one or two people saying that, one of them rhyming with Badzheha most likely. Not your fault but this is how it starts. Stories are retold and retold, and fables are created. Aliona was the one literally training with the B team while Anna was showing a 4Lz at test skates. In my opinion she was always 2nd, but she's number 1 now.

About the forgotten one, absolutely and that was what Ted said. But that doesn't make you third favourite, it's a separate point. Sasha has all the quads, Aliona has the skating skills. Polarity always gets the clicks. Anna as the compromise between the two is overlooked. Or was - I hope.

 

[LiamV426]

Well I mean a peak 2018 Alina and Evgenia would present a challenge to some of them.

A peak 2017-2018 Alina and Evgenia we know can outscore Liza T, even if she has 3As. Even a 2019-2020 Alina could outscore Anna and Sasha in the SP.

A peak 2018 Alina who can backload ALL her jumps actually does present a challenge to even the quadsters as other than Sasha (and maybe?? Kamila) no one else is backloading their quads. And even Sasha struggles with backloaded quads. Backloaded triples does a lot to counteract 3As and quads in the first half. (Look at Anna's SP versus Liza's for example.)

So that's not entirely true that they would "easily" make the team.

I don't know if I misspoke but when I said "any 1 of them" I didn't mean they would take away a spot from Alina or Evgenia. I meant they would easily grab the 3rd spot.

But anyway, my point was not to start some kind of debate over "so and so would've beaten..." but rather to express how awesome yet sad it is that this type of content would've made making the team way easier a few years ago but now may not even be enough to make the Top 5 at Nationals.

 

[chasingneverland]

I don't know if I misspoke but when I said "any 1 of them" I didn't mean they would take away a spot from Alina or Evgenia. I meant they would easily grab the 3rd spot.

But anyway, my point was not to start some kind of debate over "so and so would've beaten..." but rather to express how awesome yet sad it is that this type of content would've made making the team way easier a few years ago but now may not even be enough to make the Top 5 at Nationals.

The thing is I'm saying I disagree that it would have been easier. There was one (1) spot up for grabs in 2018. There's arguably one (1) spot up for grabs now, maybe two. There was less competition for that spot then but the fact remains that there are more girls than there are spots. I mean Liza T is still trying to get a spot on an Olympic team and she didn't come close then.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

What about Gulyakova - anybody think she has a prayer of getting a spot? She did place 3rd at GP Russia this year.

I'd say it's not a very high chance. She was only 12th at RusNats, behind Liza N, Ksenia Tsibinova and Anna Frolova and she couldn't go to RCF to prove that Rostelecom wasn't a fluke.

I think IF Evgenia doesn't return it goes Maiia two spots, and then Liza N gets two (NOT Kseniia). They'll go by RusNats and she was 6th there. She was also alternate for World's and WTT. I think Liza N makes reserve for the National team.I think Sofia S might get one spot but I actually think they go with Kseniia T rather than Kseniia S.

Hmmm I disagree. Liza N was brutally pushed down by URs and downgrades at RCF. I just don't see RusFed giving the lady who finished 11th at RCF 2 GP spots. 1 for sure, she was sixth at RusNats, but it wasn't like she was super close to fifth place or the podium. As much as I want to see her get 2 spots, I don't see it happening. Sofia S getting a spot seems very likely since she has the world standings for that. And I don't see them going with Ksenia T over Anna Frolova or Kseniia Sinitsyna. Frolova and Tsibinova went against each other three times this season, and Anna F came out on top 2 times. Yes Tsibinova was higher at RusNats, but consider that at RCF both were clean and Anna F was higher by 11 points. Anna F also has the international experience with JGPs too. Kseniia's biggest backing factor is her fifth at RusNats and the fact that she, despite being kind of held back in PCS due to skating first, was only six points away from Sasha's FS score. And she was only 2 points away from being fourth, with a disaster SP too. She has the highest SB out of the all of them based off of 19-20 scores, she's won a JGP, she's made it to the JGPF, she was fourth at Junior Worlds, and she has a potential quad + huge scoring potential. Maybe I don't exactly see her getting 2 spots, again I said I would find it reasonable but RusFed and I are not the same, but I think it would be the most reasonable decision. If Zhenya doesn't return I probably see Maiia 2, Kseniia S 1, Sofia S 1, Liza N 1 and Anna F 1. I'm just a bit sad that we probably won't see Kseniia again. If she did perform cleanly, even if the 4T wasn't landed, I think she'd totally be a shoe-in. The main thing holding her back is the lack of knowledge we have about her state - accompanied by the fact she didn't do great at her last competition though she did pretty well at the Tchaikovskaya skate. I think RusFed might be able to send people to like watch the top skaters train in order to understand their state right? So maybe if Kseniia really is doing really well (which I hope she is!) they will see that and consider her.

 

[chasingneverland]

I'd say it's not a very high chance. She was only 12th at RusNats, behind Liza N, Ksenia Tsibinova and Anna Frolova and she couldn't go to RCF to prove that Rostelecom wasn't a fluke.

Hmmm I disagree. Liza N was brutally pushed down by URs and downgrades at RCF. I just don't see RusFed giving the lady who finished 11th at RCF 2 GP spots. 1 for sure, she was sixth at RusNats, but it wasn't like she was super close to fifth place or the podium. As much as I want to see her get 2 spots, I don't see it happening. Sofia S getting a spot seems very likely since she has the world standings for that. And I don't see them going with Ksenia T over Anna Frolova or Kseniia Sinitsyna. Frolova and Tsibinova went against each other three times this season, and Anna F came out on top 2 times. Yes Tsibinova was higher at RusNats, but consider that at RCF both were clean and Anna F was higher by 11 points. Anna F also has the international experience with JGPs too. Kseniia's biggest backing factor is her fifth at RusNats and the fact that she, despite being kind of held back in PCS due to skating first, was only six points away from Sasha's FS score. And she was only 2 points away from being fourth, with a disaster SP too. She has the highest SB out of the all of them based off of 19-20 scores, she's won a JGP, she's made it to the JGPF, she was fourth at Junior Worlds, and she has a potential quad + huge scoring potential. Maybe I don't exactly see her getting 2 spots, again I said I would find it reasonable but RusFed and I are not the same, but I think it would be the most reasonable decision. If Zhenya doesn't return I probably see Maiia 2, Kseniia S 1, Sofia S 1, Liza N 1 and Anna F 1. I'm just a bit sad that we probably won't see Kseniia again. If she did perform cleanly, even if the 4T wasn't landed, I think she'd totally be a shoe-in. The main thing holding her back is the lack of knowledge we have about her state - accompanied by the fact she didn't do great at her last competition though she did pretty well at the Tchaikovskaya skate. I think RusFed might be able to send people to like watch the top skaters train in order to understand their state right? So maybe if Kseniia really is doing really well (which I hope she is!) they will see that and consider her.

Oh I agree completely. I fervently argued in the lead up to the RusCup final that Liza N had absolutely no chance of getting sent to World's. And that they were going to ding her on everything. And it was true.

However, I DO think she is ahead of other people who have no chance BECAUSE AFTER the RusCup Final after they did ding her they still named her as an alternate to Word's and WTT. And the WTT was named after World's happened.

Do I think she's going to get 2 spots? NO Not likely. I don't think anyone after Evgenia or Maiia are getting 2 spots. I just think she's next in line. She might get 1. Admittedly the might get 1 is better than a whole host of other people.

As for the international experience of Anna F, Ksenia S has MUCH more international experience and that's not helping her.

As for Anastasia G, she has an outside shot but that's because of her coach. Mishin will send her and Sofia S to all the senior B's. And Mishin's name holds some weight.

 

[LiamForeman]

As for Anastasia G, she has an outside shot but that's because of her coach. Mishin will send her and Sofia S to all the senior B's. And Mishin's name holds some weight.

How many skaters from a country can go to Senior B's? 3? It seems unfair that Mishin gets all his skaters into these B comps when other (better) skaters are left at home and never compete internationally. Guliakova and Samodurova should be behind Usacheva, Khromykh, Liza N, Tsibinova, Talalakina, Sinitsina, and even Frolova for B spots.

I also think that the skaters who in the off season learn ultraC should be first priority to get them out there and attempting them in competition. So, Valieva, Usacheva, Khromykh, Tukt, Sinitsina should definitely get B's before anyone else.

 

[chasingneverland]

How many skaters from a country can go to Senior B's? 3? It seems unfair that Mishin gets all his skaters into these B comps when other (better) skaters are left at home and never compete internationally. Guliakova and Samodurova should be behind Usacheva, Khromykh, Liza N, Tsibinova, Talalakina, Sinitsina, and even Frolova for B spots.

It's not limited by spots as much as by funding.

They will be behind Daria and probably Maiia for sure.

Sofia S and Anastasia G were both part of the Russian National team last year as alternates so had funding. They also went to test skates.

Mishin also knows they need it for ranking/standing.

 

[LiamForeman]

When will Russia announce it's National Team for next year? After test skates? I've forgotten when they announce it.

Also, if there is no limit per country, I have no problem with the 3 Mishin ladies going if they pay their way (if Tukt goes with funding they could just share one hotel room, and most Bs are in Europe anyway so the travel can't be that much).

Is there a list somewhere of all the B events?

 

[Amei]

When will Russia announce it's National Team for next year? After test skates? I've forgotten when they announce it.

Based on the first post of this thread, the national team was announced at the end of May. So if that's the normal timing - about 5-6 weeks

 

[lurkerghost1]

When will Russia announce it's National Team for next year? After test skates? I've forgotten when they announce it.

Also, if there is no limit per country, I have no problem with the 3 Mishin ladies going if they pay their way (if Tukt goes with funding they could just share one hotel room, and most Bs are in Europe anyway so the travel can't be that much).

Is there a list somewhere of all the B events?

2021–22 ISU Challenger Series - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From Wikipedia the list is:

• Lombardia (Italy)
• Autumn Classic (Canada)
• Nebelhorn (Germany)
• Nepela (Slovakia)
• Finlandia (Finland)
• Asian Open (China)
• Denis Ten (Kazakhstan)
• Ice Challenge (Austria)
• Warsaw Cup (Poland)
• Golden Spin (Croatia)

With 8/10 events in Europe hopefully Russia will send out Sinitsyna, Nugumanova, Frolova, Samodurova and co. if they don’t get GP spots (as Samodurova will move off the world standing list when it resets). But looking at 19-20 season it doesn’t seem very likely:

• 2019 Autumn Classic: Medvedeva
• Lombardia: Samodurova, Shcherbakova, Tuktamysheva
• Nepela: Trusova, Sotskova, Konstantinova
• Finlandia: Kostornaia, Tuktamysheva, Samodurova (withdrew)
• Ice Star: Samodurova
• Warsaw Cup: Sakhanovich, Nugumanova
• Golden Spin: Tuktamysheva, Samodurova, Konstantinova (withdrew)

Out of 16 assignments, one went to a skater who didn’t get a GP - Nugumanova. Samodurova and Tuktamysheva both got three, but Guliakova in the same training team did not get any as she was not on the national team. Nugumanova got one because she won the Russian Cup Stage. Note that Guliakova and Sakhanovich (+Usacheva and Khromykh on the junior level) did get an international assignment to the Denis Ten Memorial but it was not a Challenger that year and didn’t count for that all-important Season’s Best score.

All that being said assuming Zhenya and Maya both get two spots leaving one spot + host spot open, I hope Sinitsyna gets the one spot and then the host spot will be between Samodurova, Nugumanova, and Frolova with the other two given challengers. But I doubt Rusfed will do this

 

[LiamForeman]

OK, so we'll find out the Russian Team soon. It looks like 6 plus 3 on Reserve. So, in order the top 6 should be Shcherbakova, Valieva, Trusova, Tuktamysheva, Usacheva, and who? Kostornaia over Khromykh? One of those two will have to be on reserve. I guess the other two on Reserve would be Medvedeva and Sinitsina?

I'm sorry I'm asking so many questions, but is funding really THAT much of a problem in Russia? You'd think any Russian parent would pay their kid's way just to finally get them to an international competition. Consider it a vacation expense for the child once a year, right? I mean, if your kid is that talented but Russia won't pay, maybe the parents should offer straight up that they are willing to cover all expenses for a competition? That's what I would do. If flying them to Finland or Germany or Italy for a week is the only chance to get their kid an international, who wouldn't do that?

 

[Amei]

OK, so we'll find out the Russian Team soon. It looks like 6 plus 3 on Reserve. So, in order the top 6 should be Shcherbakova, Valieva, Trusova, Tuktamysheva, Usacheva, and who? Kostornaia over Khromykh? One of those two will have to be on reserve. I guess the other two on Reserve would be Medvedeva and Sinitsina?

I'm sorry I'm asking so many questions, but is funding really THAT much of a problem in Russia? You'd think any Russian parent would pay their kid's way just to finally get them to an international competition. Consider it a vacation expense for the child once a year, right? I mean, if your kid is that talented but Russia won't pay, maybe the parents should offer straight up that they are willing to cover all expenses for a competition? That's what I would do. If flying them to Finland or Germany or Italy for a week is the only chance to get their kid an international, who wouldn't do that?

Well its not a cheap sport and probably difficult for skaters with very little international success to get sponsors when sponsors have household names they can attach their brand to. When Nugumanova was announced about getting a sponsorship with I think Mercedes, someone brought up that it probably had more to do with her becoming a social media star in Russia during the pandemic than her skating career.

You might want to scope out Anastaisia Tarakanova's Fan Fest there might be a link to the interview she did a couple of years ago talking about how her parents at that point had shelled out a lot of money for the sport at that point. She talked about needing money for off-ice training, on-ice training with the fishing pole, to name a few I remember and got a GoFundMe account going to try and help costs. The gist of what I got from Tarakanova's story was that if you aren't on the national team then funding your career is all on you. I'm sure there are plenty of Russian parents that would love to send their kids to competitions with no Fed backing, but they might not necessarily be able to afford to do it.

 

[chasingneverland]

When will Russia announce it's National Team for next year? After test skates? I've forgotten when they announce it.

Also, if there is no limit per country, I have no problem with the 3 Mishin ladies going if they pay their way (if Tukt goes with funding they could just share one hotel room, and most Bs are in Europe anyway so the travel can't be that much).

Is there a list somewhere of all the B events?

The other thing too is definitely Kamila, Daria, Maiia, and probably Aliona, at least, if not also Anna and Sasha will do one CS as well. As well as Liza T, maybe Sofia S, and maybe Anastasia G. Although the Russian National team will go to the early ones - before the GP - more as a prep and welcome to senior competition before it matters for them.