2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Flying Feijoa]

Wow, things escalated quickly again... Maybe we should have a "2020-21 Tutberidze and Plushenko Ladies" thread? Then we can talk about all the other girls here without fighting.

Oh, but then I wouldn't be able to praise Stasya's progress here :/

 

[nussnacker]

The topic where Plushenko has in three months apparently caused Sasha to:

Develop a lip
Do crap choreo
Forget how to spin and do a step sequence.

This thread really does need more diagrams and an "Ignore thread" option.

I’ve already made my opinion clear on that a few times I believe, namely, that we need more time for Sasha to polish her programs to judge, and wrote nothing about the choreo for the record. But please keep dragging this topic away to the 18 Olympics.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Yawn. Who’s avoiding the topic now?

Not me. Are you pretending that Eteri hasn't had a significant number of skaters who have through her negligence ended up severely injured and in some cases unable to skate.

If so, Aidan Pitkeev who was once a very promising skater, but now is unable to jump a single jump would like a word with you.

 

[Skatesocs]

The topic where Plushenko has in three months apparently caused Sasha to:

Develop a lip
Do crap choreo
Forget how to spin and do a step sequence.

This thread really does need more diagrams and an "Ignore thread" option.

Anonymoose, I am sure some really are saying all of these without irony.

Here's what I think:

Trusova had that "twisty" technique on the flip, which used to pull her edge onto a flat at times. Since Plushy has changed the technique (and made the flip more effortless!) I am sure it will take some getting used to, and the edge will probably be fixed - this I've said in the thread before.

I think Daniil and Rozanov are both awful choreographers.

Trusova was never that great at getting levels. I do think she was better at spins last season, but people made a deal out of a level three flying camel in the first competition of the season.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

(pssst: whisper... but I thought she was training at AoP?)

Yeah, that's what I meant. If we have a Khrustalny+AoP Ladies thread then I'd have to talk about her there not here

 

[Amei]

Wow, things escalated quickly again... Maybe we should have a "2020-21 Tutberidze and Plushenko Ladies" thread? Then we can talk about all the other girls here without fighting.

Oh, but then I wouldn't be able to praise Stasya's progress here :/

I disagree on separating out discussing the ladies - someone that wants to be involved in the coaching debates make a Russian coaching thread, and all coaching gossip is discussed there.

 

[Mentis]

She can do that and more power to her, but acting surprised and bring all "There, there" when Zhenya lost. No, you created the conditions for Alina to win, own it.

During training, I think a coach should be fair and bring the best out of every skater.
But after the scores are in, I don't think it's wrong to console the heartbroken silver medalist next to you. What better alternative even is there anyways? "Oh shush, you could've worked harder"? "I liked the other one more anyways"? Just ignore them?
The skater would probably prefer emotional support too.

But then again, I also find it pretty heartwarming when competitors comfort each other. The first thought that passes through my head definitely isn't "you winning the gold is why they're crying over the silver, just own it".

But enough about me, what exactly do you think Eteri's proper reaction should've been?
I suggest you think carefully, because Plushenko could very well end up in similar situations now that he has two spectacular skaters like Sasha and Alena training with him. This thread has seemingly impeccable memory, so you certainly wouldn't want whatever you say to be thrown back at you if Plushenko is seen comforting his silver medalist instead of "owning it", whatever that means.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Doh my mistake.

Don't be shy though. Do share some good news. I missed her skate this weekend, but if the photos of the little black dress offer a hint, then I missed something sassy and sophisticated.

Well, she didn't fall! At all! Just a couple of URs/1A/2F across the two events, which is really good compared to the last couple of seasons. Jumps-wise it looks like Volkov has been retooling a bit since she isn't keeling over as severely on toe jump takeoff/landing, but I guess it might take a while to get used to it.

Yup, sassy and sophisticated sounds about right. The fact that she's 20 has to do with it, but also the music choice and costuming Especially liked the free (a soul/tango combo, I've not heard it before).

I disagree on separating out discussing the ladies - someone that wants to be involved in the coaching debates make a Russian coaching thread, and all coaching gossip is discussed there.

Yes, better idea. Anybody up to make a '2020-21 Russian Coaches' thread? (I don't plan to participate much in those debates myself).

 

[Amei]

I think people are overthinking and sexualizing a dance move. Hip movements are present in many cultures and don't represent sexual movements. People thinking about it is what makes it sexual. I'm all in for dance representation, and hip movement is totally fine. I've been trained in ballet, ballroom dance and middle eastern dances. It offends me to see that people are so close-minded with dance expression. She was not twerking for God's sake.

Agree I don't think the "hip shake" that Trusova does is vulgar, but she's not the most musical skater so it comes as an awkward break in the program that doesn't fit - maybe that changes as the season goes on but I'm not hopeful given that we know she wants to do more than 3 quads in a program so she's going to get more focused on jumps.

I think they made a bad misstep with her FS choice, she struggles with interpretation especially when she adds more quads, and her team gives her a piece tied to a famous character and instead giving her this character to portray they are giving her an "idea" to portray.

Now the total lack of expression on her face makes sense

Still though I don't understand the criticism some have of the lack of facial expression. It's not like Bolero has a hard storyline ala Romeo and Juliet. So she's free to do with it as she pleases. She can even smile throughout the whole thing if she wants. Plus she's very expressive in her body movements so it's not like nothing is happening at all. There is more to expression then just the face

The lack of facial expression from Valieva has been my criticism for awhile with her and it's not improving.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

No, not 'oh please'. Even Kamila's 'messy' FS is way better aesthetically than clean Sasha's FS. it's a poetry on ice vs physical exercise on ice. You can't even compare them, it's a different genres.

You literally just compared them and then you said you can't compare them? Do you see the hypocrisy there?
Some may really love Kamila's FS, and that's totally fine! And then some might love Sasha's FS, and that's also fine! And to talk about aesthetics and beauty... well that's all subjective.

 

[Jontor]

Well, she didn't fall! At all! Just a couple of URs/1A/2F across the two events, which is really good compared to the last couple of seasons. Jumps-wise it looks like Volkov has been retooling a bit since she isn't keeling over as severely on toe jump takeoff/landing, but I guess it might take a while to get used to it.

Yup, sassy and sophisticated sounds about right. The fact that she's 20 has to do with it, but also the music choice and costuming Especially liked the free (a soul/tango combo, I've not heard it before).

It was wonderful to see Konstantinova back in better form than last year. There seemed to be a little stamina problem but hopefully she can fix that.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Not to say that Kami's FS is just like outright bad or anything, but for everyone who loves it, can you please tell me why? I personally don't like it because I don't like Bolero, the costume or the choreography, but it's always good to hear the opposite side!

 

[Scott512]

Trusova and Konstantinova's fan came to free skate with poster "I'm pro honest judging" and got almost arrested, lol.




10yo Elizaveta Andreeva from "Khrustalnyi" children Oksana Bulycheva's group (first coach of Kanysheva and Shcherbakova) won local Muscovian tournament with many triples and score 120:

What's her angle? I hope she's not complaining about Sasha and Stasyas scores? I can think of many skaters whose low-balled a lot more than those two have been.

As for the girl bringing the sign she doesn't need to be arrested but it's going to irritate people.

 

[Amei]

What's her angle? I hope she's not complaining about Sasha and Stasyas scores? I can think of many skaters whose low-balled a lot more than those two have been.

As for the girl bringing the sign she doesn't need to be arrested but it's going to irritate people.

Getting her 15 minutes of fame would be my guess.

 

[Seruleane]

Not to say that Kami's FS is just like outright bad or anything, but for everyone who loves it, can you please tell me why? I personally don't like it because I don't like Bolero, the costume or the choreography, but it's always good to hear the opposite side!

I don’t love it, but I can see the potential. I don’t like Bolero the music in general, but I can see how a skater like Kamila (who has great extensions, flexibility, and hits great positions right on musical cues) could do well with a rhythmic program like that. I think the natural progression of Bolero is missed in Danil’s version of the program (I don’t really appreciate the crescendo/climax that is the whole point of Bolero) but I am willing to wait and see how the program progresses over the season. I don’t understand why there is already so much hate for any program this early in the season. Give her time to grow and develop the program. If we’re expecting more improvement to come with Sasha’s R&J, it only makes sense to give the same chance to Kamila. I will admit I find the snake face in the back of her costume kind of weird and tacky in the same way Kostornaia’s bloody vampire costume was tacky. But honestly, Kamila can make anything look good so I’m not too worried about her costume either.

 

[Scott512]

Getting her 15 minutes of fame would be my guess.

Probably.

 

[anonymoose_au]

But enough about me, what exactly do you think Eteri's proper reaction should've been?

Not to act like "Who me?!" when Zhenya's scores showed up with her in second. Like come on, you can't tell me she was actually surprised, after all Eteri and her team are praised for their ability to count. Alina had just performed her program with all jumps in the bonus, Zhenya didn't not nor did she do a 3A or quad so it was clear she wasn't going to win, Alina's TES and PCS were huge and as if the judges were going to give "extra" points to Zhenya just to get her over the line and risk a never ending contraversy over why the athlete with the more technically demanding program win, since it's a sport and blah blah. Eteri was at Euros when Alina won the same way so she had to see it coming.

I also expect her to behave with a modicum of decency when Zhenya who had gone as fas as she could with Sambo decided to leave. Did you forget how she claimed Zhenya said to her that she should have kept Alina in Juniors? Eteri didn't reveal that because she was hurt on Alina's behalf, she said it to make Zhenya sound like a bitch and make people hate her.

And Eteri's surprised so many of her departing students don't give her flowers?! With a track record like hers she should be glad they don't send her weeds.

 

[Amei]

Can someone send an alert when the thread is done rehashing the Zagitova/Medvedeva/Eteri drama from 2018 for about the 2,018th time?

 

[readernick]

Can we please just open a separate thread? Russian coaches in general are pretty tacky people. Almost all (with a few precious exceptions), say terrible things about their past students. I don't want to discuss them. The Russian ladies are very talented, and so much more mature and better behaved. Let's talk about them!

 

[anonymoose_au]

The Russian ladies are very talented, and so much more mature and better behaved. Let's talk about them!

I've tried doing this, really I have, once I posted to say how much I enjoyed Liza's programs only to be hit with a laundry list of how Mishin can't put together a competent program or my comment was just ignored.

It's like there's certain skaters you can enjoy on this thread and those you can't.

And if you do enjoy these others skaters you should go to their fan fest unless getting a whole bunch of responses about why you're wrong to enjoy this or that skater is your idea of a good time.