2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Vemvane]

I haven't yet had a chance to watch the juniors' free skates from the 4th stage of the Russian Cup, but I did come across some lovely pictures of Osokina's free.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHf6hBPpHzL/

Her SP didn't have quite the same pep I remember it having in test skates, but I am hoping she had a good free!

 

[anonymoose_au]

Well, I love her jumps, her personality, her perseverance and I wish she had better programs. Last year‘s SP by Shae Lynn was fantastic, before Mishin changed the music and some of the choreo. It was extremely well done and very suitable for Liza. By the way, I don‘t like every program of my other favorite skaters as well, what‘s wrong with that?!

You've only mentioned one SP, out of dozens that Liza's had. Do you truly only enjoy one single program from her? Do you truly believe in her decade of skating that she's passively skated crappy program after crappy program for some bizarre reason?

For example, I like Anna S's personality, she's a sweetheart, but I don't much care for her programs, but when people mention her in this thread I don't make a point of bringing that up, because...they work for her and that's how she skates. Who am I to tell her she should skate this way or that way? Maybe if I was a professional coach, but I'm not, so I don't presume that I know better than those who are.

 

[nussnacker]

You've only mentioned one SP, out of dozens that Liza's had. Do you truly only enjoy one single program from her? Do you truly believe in her decade of skating that she's passively skated crappy program after crappy program for some bizarre reason?

For example, I like Anna S's personality, she's a sweetheart, but I don't much care for her programs, but when people mention her in this thread I don't make a point of bringing that up, because...they work for her and that's how she skates. Who am I to tell her she should skate this way or that way? Maybe if I was a professional coach, but I'm not, so I don't presume that I know better than those who are.

welp... people here are doing it regarding every single Sambo skater 24/7, it pretty much a hobby. So although you personally don't do that (?), doesn't change that others do that all the time, and there's nothing wrong with that, they should be allowed to have an opinion on any skater. It's what forums are for!

 

[anonymoose_au]

welp... people here are doing it regarding every single Sambo skater 24/7, it pretty much a hobby. So although you personally don't do that (?), doesn't change that others do that all the time, and there's nothing wrong with that, they should be allowed to have an opinion on any skater. It's what forums are for!

Maybe you're right, but it seems to me if you don't enjoy a Sambo program you're obviously a hater who can't recognise the brilliantly constructed program that's staring you in the face.

If you hate on a Mishin program on the other hand, you have seen the light and truly understand figure skating, congratulations!

After all, I don't see a single other poster defending Liza's programs. The one time I mentioned not finding Kamila's FS a work of art it was a pile on!

 

[Magill]

I don't know if everyone had a chance to see it yet so I thought I would post a link to the longer shoot of the ladies award ceremony as it shows the background of the (in)famous "hug gate" - girls chatting their time away and then rushing to make it on time to the podium (Sasha in particular as she was the first to go ). I find it particularly warming to see Sasha and Maia chatting and giggling like long lost friends despite all the camp wars going on among the coaches and fans ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHDAhfz04VM

 

[flanker]

When you write this though you're basically saying Mishin is, in fact, an idiot who doesn't know how to count or worse yet, that Liza is also an idiot because after many many seasons she also doesn't realise this. I feel that there must be a good reason for the layouts chosen and that Mishin isn't senile and everyone's just too polite to tell him there's a new scoring system going on.


I'm not sure about that...I recall hearing that when a skater was struggling with triples, Eteri and her team's response was to put them in a "lower" group. Perhaps I'm oversensitive, I'm sure I am, but I thought that was messed up. Firstly, it shows a complete lack of confidence in the skater - like, rather than trying to help you when you're having a rough time, I'm just going to shove you out of sight so you don't waste my time. Secondly, it sends a message to those in the "lower" group that being in said group is a punishment, it's where the no-hopers go, like thanks a lot!

If I were a skater who was struggling, that sort of decision from my coach would leave me utterly disillusioned, not to mention embarrassed and yes I probably would leave. But would it be wholly my decision? Or was I pushed?

I'm not using that word but I am definitely not the only one here who wonders why the basic math is such a problem in Mishin's team. I will gladly and easily accept any reasonable and true explanation for it, but so far didn't get one.

It's ripping one or two cases of the context. I remind once again that when Alina was accepted into the team her only triple was Salchow and she learned the rest in the team so it's definitely not that "either you have triples or you don't come to our sight". It's not a punishment when a skater has a problems with something to put him temporalily into another group, it's like in school when someone has a problem with something than he gets some tutoring or remedial lessons while the rest of the class can concentrate on something more difficult and there is no problem in returning back while everything is fine. And I'm sure most of the normal kids experienced something like that in school and in life (incl. me), you truly can't be oversensitive, that's life and in a sport, esp. sport like this, you have to accept even such moments sometimes. Yes, maybe if you pay a private tutor who cares only about you it is different, but in that case there would be one or two chosen ones with the "more individual approach" and the rest would have only "eyes for cry". And BTW none of that was ever a reason for a skater leaving. Shelepen or Medvedeva or Tsurskaya definitely didn't leave because they would be transfered into a younger group. Daria Panenkova menitoned that she was sent once in the younger group but that wasn't a reason why she left. And what was with her later was in no way Eteri's fault.

I would also remind that particular people are cherrypicking only things that can be presented negatively, while even former skaters claim that Eteri is also very supportive, don't take money if the skaters have finantial problems, supporting them even the other way etc.

My conclusion is this time is still transitional into a completely new era in ladies skating. The younger "generation" has the "luck" that the new approach that was developed with the previous skaters can be applied with them a year, two or three earlier, so they have the advatage, but that had to come sooner or later if the sport shouldn't be conserved in a state without changes, without the new elements, new approach, completely new view of what ladies are even capable of. There was a time when people doubted whether ladies can jump triples, then whether they can do 3-3 combos, than 3A, now quads, it's still moving on. Yes, pioneers always eat the toughest bread and from the safe distance it's easy to call their real or alleged mistakes while profiting from their work.

 

[nussnacker]

Maybe you're right, but it seems to me if you don't enjoy a Sambo program you're obviously a hater who can't recognise the brilliantly constructed program that's staring you in the face.

If you hate on a Mishin program on the other hand, you have seen the light and truly understand figure skating, congratulations!

After all, I don't see a single other poster defending Liza's programs. The one time I mentioned not finding Kamila's FS a work of art it was a pile on!

That's purely your perception of the matter, I'll be honest. I feel like you're exaggerating all the reactions here, because I am really struggling to find anyone who got hate, because they said 'I don't find Kamila's program a work of art'.

If numbers of people bother you, well, here's the reality: there will be different amount of people who would prefer one skater, and another amount who would prefer the opposite. Just how there are people who find Angelina Jolie ugly, but those would likely be a minority, compared to those who think she's beautiful, who will likely be the majority. Doesn't make the opinion of the minority invalid, it's all subjective, but they will remain a minority. It's how all subjective opinions work.

 

[Skatesocs]

Maybe you're right, but it seems to me if you don't enjoy a Sambo program you're obviously a hater who can't recognise the brilliantly constructed program that's staring you in the face.

If you hate on a Mishin program on the other hand, you have seen the light and truly understand figure skating, congratulations!

After all, I don't see a single other poster defending Liza's programs. The one time I mentioned not finding Kamila's FS a work of art it was a pile on!

I have posted criticisms of Eteri skaters on this very thread. My first opinion about skating in this thread was a direct criticism of Eteri camp's pure skating technique. I even criticised Kostornaia's skating when she was still with Eteri skating even though people weren't having it. I even criticised Medvedeva's programs with Orser, and was told my criticism was all subjective and based on many "cultural differences", while specifically agreeing with the praise I was giving her. I've been constantly critical of the artistry people seem to be seeing in Valieva's skating, and I've specifically called her spins overrated.

A reason why criticism of Eteri's skaters gets more backlash is because her skaters win more things, and so will end up having more fans. And some will be over protective over criticism of her skaters simply because they're more visible and end up getting proportionally more criticism as well. It is not beneficial to rant about this each time it happens to Tuktamysheva.

 

[flanker]

That's purely your perception of the matter, I'll be honest. I feel like you're exaggerating all the reactions here, because I am really struggling to find anyone who got hate, because they said 'I don't find Kamila's program a work of art'.

If numbers of people bother you, well, here's the reality: there will be different amount of people who would prefer one skater, and another amount who would prefer the opposite. Just how there are people who find Angelina Jolie ugly, but those would likely be a minority, compared to those who think she's beautiful, who will likely be the majority. Doesn't make the opinion of the minority invalid, it's all subjective, but they will remain a minority. It's how all subjective opinions work.

I am the minority and have to live with that

 

[Skatesocs]

If numbers of people bother you, well, here's the reality: there will be different amount of people who would prefer one skater, and another amount who would prefer the opposite. Just how there are people who find Angelina Jolie ugly, but those would likely be a minority, compared to those who think she's beautiful, who will likely be the majority. Doesn't make the opinion of the minority invalid, it's all subjective, but they will remain a minority. It's how all subjective opinions work.

Eteri camp, whether who likes it or not, is ticking all the boxes and the skaters skate with confidence. Of course a lot of people will like the camp.

 

[flanker]

Eteri camp, whether who likes it or not, is ticking all the boxes and the skaters skate with confidence. Of course a lot of people will like the camp.

There is one more thing apart from the confidence and other qualities Eteri skaters have, though it is not mentioned as much as the others. When they do a mistake, they are able to analyze quickly where the problem is and what to do to prevent it next time. Just read Sofia's interview after the stage 4 for instance, she could easily just praise herself how she landed two clean quads and a 3A, but she rather speaks about the mistake on 3Lz and what caused it. Though it is maybe a part of their confidence, they are not afraid to talk about mistakes and flaws. And that's worth of appreciation.

 

[Skatesocs]

Yes they're insanely competitive, and do strive for perfection.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Eteri camp, whether who likes it or not, is ticking all the boxes and the skaters skate with confidence. Of course a lot of people will like the camp.

Yes, they are playing the game, and working hard to get their skaters to a technical level where they push themselves even further ahead.

However several of their programs are not "brilliantly constructed" in the sense that they have memorable qualities.

I think a good way of looking at a program being brilliant constructed is if you take out the jumps is it still noteworthy? If you swapped the music with another piece of music is it the same old?

I will say Sambo is good at trying to distinguish the skaters from each other and bringing out their strengths, but they can get formulaic and several of them skate very mechanically (although maturity and finesse comes with time).

That's why Kostornaia was such a success story last season. She didn't skate like a typical Sambo skater and yet she was. Her programs actually were better constructed than other Sambo skaters too.

Re: Liza, I don't think her programs have been as bad to the extent that others are saying, but she definitely has a niche. She kinda needs to be like Javier and break free from what people expect, and explore different styles of programs. I would LOVE to see her do something more lyrical and soft, and more emotional/expressive, but that isn't exactly definitive of Mishin programs or her as a skater. The Sambo skaters I kinda cut them some slack because they're essentially all young and told what to do because they want to win the big prizes, but at this point I hold Liza to a bit of a higher standard because I know she *can* do it and has already won so she could take more creative risks.

 

[Skatesocs]

However several of their programs are not "brilliantly constructed" in the sense that they have memorable qualities.

I do agree that they're not artistically brilliant. But from a CoP check box point of view, they are playing a clever game.

 

[LiamForeman]

]Overall Akatieva is going to be a bit like Medvedeva and Zagitova, her strenght is all in the consistency. She is not the best skater in any aspect really: you can find skaters with better SS, better posture, better spins, better extension, better performance qualities,... but the job is done, and it is always impressive when you see all put together.

Her excellent posture is what I think helps her stand out. In fact, I can't think of anyone with better posture than hers. As Dick Button said "You could iron a shirt on that straight back". After Valieva, hers is my favorite SP. I find her very musical. She doesn't flap her arms for no reason, and is very precise with her delivery. Your description above makes me wonder if we are watching the same skater... Her spins are excellent, she has great extension, and I think she's a very good performer. I'm a huge fan of her skating.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

After some time, Lozko felt she was going nowhere, so she moved to Moscow and was admited in Eteri‘s group. Mishin pulled some strings and the Fed told her father they have to go back to St. Petersburg. So, Lozko went back only to find herself neglected and blacklisted by Mishin, so she had huge difficulties finding another coach.

Thanks for the link, that was interesting to read (Google-translated). However, I didn't get the impression that he was excessively unreasonable. It's not clear whether he was involved in the St Petersburg fed's decision to recall her from Moscow, so maybe he just didn't like the uncertainty of the back-and-forthing (which may have been the SPB fed's fault more than his or Lozko's - the article calls it a misunderstanding). She mentions that he dissuaded most coaches at his rink from working with her, except that Pisarenko (one of these coaches) still took her anyway, which suggests that it was more a situation where he shared his opinion that she might unexpectedly leave them again and waste their time than a blacklist per se. It's about as understandable as Gleikhengauz's disappointment with Kostornaia - they did after all spend a lot of effort training and choreographing when she left without warning (as Lozko did when she left Mishin for Tutberidze). Interestingly Sakhanovich left Pisarenko for Tutberidze sometime prior to Lozko's attempted move to Tutberidze, so I wonder if Pisarenko took Lozko to make up for the loss of Sakhanovich.

Mishin‘s approach to programs seems frozen in the 80s and the 6.0 era. I am not sayng he is malicious, of course, just no longer edgy. Lozko mentions in that interview that the workload at SPB was much smaller than at Izhevsk or Moscow.

Yes. Not ill-willed, but he strikes me as having a very set approach to things, for better or worse. Kind of like those older university profs who don't like to use Powerpoint for lectures and prefer scribbling with chalk on the blackboard (it can work, but might not be the most effective depending on your learning style...)

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Eh... Alyona Kostornaya is the best Russian female figure skater ever and the most beautiful one too. I hope Plushenko realizes this. Plus they are both of Ukrainian origin, If I am not mistaken.
Plushenko, Sviridenko, Kostornaya, Shulskaya...

 

[Gabby30]

I have posted criticisms of Eteri skaters on this very thread. My first opinion about skating in this thread was a direct criticism of Eteri camp's pure skating technique. I even criticised Kostornaia's skating when she was still with Eteri skating even though people weren't having it. I even criticised Medvedeva's programs with Orser, and was told my criticism was all subjective and based on many "cultural differences", while specifically agreeing with the praise I was giving her. I've been constantly critical of the artistry people seem to be seeing in Valieva's skating, and I've specifically called her spins overrated.

A reason why criticism of Eteri's skaters gets more backlash is because her skaters win more things, and so will end up having more fans. And some will be over protective over criticism of her skaters simply because they're more visible and end up getting proportionally more criticism as well. It is not beneficial to rant about this each time it happens to Tuktamysheva.

Winning "more things" doesn't mean that they are better than anyone else, and i find it disturbing that people only like someone when he/she is winning things. This would explain why people all of a sudden don't like Kostornaia anymore, but it seems that they liked her only because of the 3A, not because of her other qualities

 

[Skatesocs]

Winning "more things" doesn't mean that they are better than anyone else,

In the competition, on the day, according to the judges, they are, whether you like it or not. Not that I brought up "better" nor does it matter when it comes to having fans.

i find it disturbing

I find it boring.

This would explain why people all of a sudden don't like Kostornaia anymore, but it seems that they liked her only because of the 3A, not because of her other qualities

I'm glad you found my post to be some sort of explanation about the things you spoke about, even though it wasn't meant to be, nor do I mention any of the things you say even tangentially.

Here's an explanation specifically for you though: "oh no people are having personal opinions now . Disturbing! They shouldn't differ from ME!".

 

[Jontor]

It's so fun to see Viktoria Volchkova (Butsaeva) as a coach nowadays.

She used to have fantastic jumps. Was this the first 3Lz+3T attempt ever?

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