2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Vlad Karigov]

It's just pushing the crowd to cheer Sasha in the moment that Sasha is in the spotlight.
Unless of course he said something bad in russian I could not understand.
How do you relate that to some idiot shouting at a girl waiting for her scores that she does not deserve to win?
Calling support for your skater while he's performing may be "too much" or classless but is a "positive" interaction and it's not offensive to anyone.
Shouting that someone else was better while the skater is waiting for the score is "negative" like boohing.

Anyway, I don't care what he claims and I don't even like him.
I do claim that fans like that should stay away from the rink.
Justifying them with some whataboutism is wrong.

How can you say it's different. This is not a football game where you insult the referee so that he does not charge a foul or look the other way at an illegal goal. Here Plushenko is demanding pressure of the public towards the judges as if he were the leader of a hooligan band.

The Figure Skate is a polite environment, not a hooligans place. Only those who do not understand that can defend this type of attitude. In addition, Trusova always has the support of the public, even if she was skating in North Korea.

So don't be blind for defending your idols, the Plushenko thing is 100% reprehensible... What's next? support when Orser uses a vuvuzela to ask the public to put pressure on the judges so that Nathan Chen has less TES than Yuzuru...

 

[chasingneverland]

Zagitova’s Euros competition never mentioned when people say things like this.

Zagi's Euros comp is mentioned all the time haha - it was mentioned repeatedly recently in regards to the 2019 worlds selection. However, afterwards Zagi won Worlds.

 

[chasingneverland]

A compilation of the music from the films might actually be brilliant:

Safe & Sound, then the Kanye West rework of Yellow Flicker Beat, then Lorde’s rendition of Everybody Wants to Rule the World.

I’d totally nominate Anya for that program.

ALSO LIZA!! I’m not a fan of her FS but credit where it’s due, I’m happy for her. Also I’m so sad for Sasha, the pressure of an international stage really gets to her doesn’t it ):

OMG I would LOVE a program like that!!

I'm sooo happy for Liza (and Anastasiia and little Liza) and sooo sad for Sasha (and Sofia and Alena to an extent too) ugh haha.

 

[Anya00]

Kind of off topic but does anyone know why Alena’s Instagram fan account kostornaiateam went private?

 

[rollerblade]

Hey everybody the new star KV is going to skate in the gala after she was not allowed to skate in the competition! Wow isn't that nice? But if she's too young for the stressful competition why isn't she too young for the gala when she has to show your beautiful artistry and musicality? The stress might be too much for her.

Man, you're salty. Were you here crying about it last year when Sofia Akatieva skated at the Rostelecom Cup gala?

 

[Fluture]

Orser uses a vuvuzela to ask the public to put pressure on the judges

hahahaha that‘s the funniest thing I‘ve heard all day. That image‘s probably going to stay in my mind for a while, so thanks for cheering me up.

As for the rest of your post... yeah, no comment.

To fix this she'd have to rework those 3 jumps so she keeps her ankles close and legs tight, which is extremely difficult and I'd imagine would be as successful as people trying to change their edges or take offs. The only one I know who had a technique overall was Mao, and it took her many seasons and all her consistency. So I don't think it can be done while still being competitive for any skater. Small changes can be made but big changes require completely relearning the triples (much more difficult than learning them for the first time because you have muscle memory).

Sooo... essentially the only thing she can do is try to jump even higher to compensate for that or she‘s doomed? Because I highly doubt this is going to continue to work long term when she‘s still growing...

 

[Fluture]

Man, you're salty. Were you here crying about it last year when Sofia Akatieva skated at the Rostelecom Cup gala?

Scott‘s a pretty major Tutberidze and Valieva fan, he complains about Valieva not being allowed in senior internationals this season all the time. I doubt he has anything against her skating in the gala. Might be wrong tho. People in here have done a 180 on their opinions more quickly than that before.

 

[Edwin]

Anyway, Alina and Kamila have the honour to skate two well rehearsed exhibition routines tomorrow for a worldwide audience, as do two very artistic and still very young Khrustalniy boys. Let's wish them a well done performance they can be proud of, skating for fun under spotlights while holding little difficulty back requires a whole different mindset.

 

[Skatesocs]

I just wanted to make a small comment. I don't think Kostornaia's "leg wrap" was ever bad technique. It was meant to slow her down enough to get her to not overrotate and fall on some of her larger jumps, IMO. You can see Tuktamysheva also "leg wrapped" her 2A in her LP. Of course, if it's now a hindrance for Kostornaia she should try to fix it now.

 

[colormyworld240]

Sooo... essentially the only thing she can do is try to jump even higher to compensate for that or she‘s doomed? Because I highly doubt this is going to continue to work long term when she‘s still growing...

I think she can try to tighten it up little by little, and make small adjustments so she can get them better but I don't think she's going to be able to start from scratch and have an extremely tight body position. The same way Anna can make her lutz edge more and more outside until it's consistently slightly outside but she's not going to have a deep outside edge like someone who learned it that way since they were 10. Same can be said for Sasha's flip edge, although maybe not because she always looked inside to me since she was younger and up until last season, and a flip doesn't need a deep inside edge, only slightly (but she is going from outside not flat so the adjustment is probably just as demanding).

A lot of people say "why doesn't x skater just work on x" but changes are extremely difficult and probably impossible based on their muscle memory. And they don't have the luxury to take off seasons to work on fixing certain jumps because if they don't work on everything else just as much, they'd lose the other things. It also depends on what's comfortable for each skaters' bodies. Some skaters just can't jump higher/straighter/tighter/outside edge/inside edge no matter how hard they try.

 

[colormyworld240]

I just wanted to make a small comment. I don't think Kostornaia's "leg wrap" was ever bad technique. It was meant to slow her down enough to get her to not overrotate and fall on some of her larger jumps, IMO. You can see Tuktamysheva also "leg wrapped" her 2A in her LP. Of course, if it's now a hindrance for Kostornaia she should try to fix it now.

Is it a proper way to slow down rotation, though? The simulations that people use to talk about pre-rotation also indicate that air position should be tight in the air (and also straight, not having shoulders up, arms tight, etc.) But I don't know how you'd slow down rotation, I do see people do it in different ways. Kolyada's 3Lz always looks like a 4Lz popped, same air position but he checks out of the rotation very early. Anna's triples are much smaller than her quads so it looks like she changes height to compensate while keeping body position the same. Same for Sasha's 4T and 3T. Alena's 2A vs 3A looks like she's using height but also a big change in her body position (legs). I don't know which is more sustainable though but I've seen many do both (looking at their triples vs. doubles).

 

[flanker]

you know: there is something of him that I really like
The impression that when he's on the ice he's right in his element, he's happy to be there and seems able to pass this to the people that are on the ice with him for example, or the way he tried to cheer Sasha up tonight, but his tongue is a bit longer that it should be.
I doubt I could ever appreciate his personality.

As a skater he probably needs such attitude. BTW I see very similar features in Dima Kozlovskii. I'm here, I'm superconfident, I'm the best.

But as a coach, his attitude must be different. Either he learns basic temperance or he alienates too much people.

 

[sparklestan]

Anyone who knows about jumping technique: I wonder what Aliona can do to fix her leg wrap and delay of rotation? It used to be fine in juniors and last year when she could rotate faster but now that she's grown, she obviously can't and keeps URing her toe jumps. I don't want to see her end up like Tsurskaya, who had gorgeous height but so many URs. So... what does she have to do to fix it? And how quickly can such a change be made?

(and I'd appreciate serious, technical answers, not something like: go back to Eteri) Thanks in advance.

I’m a bit late so I’m not sure if someone already answered this, but I’d be happy to give my take as a skater doing doubles
The easy thing to say would be to start rotating faster but that’s would be difficult for Aliona to implement since this is they way she jumped since learning triples, probably even doubles.
Aliona seems to have a bit of delay in her arm motion after taking off and before pulling in. If she could quicken that up a bit and have her arms a bit tighter to her body I’m sure her jumps will be clean again in no time.
Regarding the leg wrap...personally (as a fellow 17 year old) I can understand Aliona sometimes having a bad leg wrap and sometimes it being not too bad. Some days I jump and my free leg is by my knee and some days it is nice and tight to my ankle. Especially as you are growing these exact positions for ideal rotation can vary and may take adjustment everyday.
Seeing how Aliona always had a leg wrap on her 2A but not on the 3A I think she could be able to tighten up her air position on the 3F and 3Lz.

Overall, I think the future is quite bright for Aliona. Sorry my post was long and I hope my explanation makes sense.

 

[Skatesocs]

Is it a proper way to slow down rotation, though?

I wouldn't call it the "ideal" way. I would definitely prefer if she had just been taught to open up early. But I don't think she's been taught bad technique in that particular sense - because I do see a logic behind it - and I think it is not unfixable.

The point about the videos you're making is why I put "leg wrap" in quotations. Leg wrap is usually a product of lazy take-offs, like Yukari Nakano's. I do not see that in Kostornaia. She's just keeping her air position open. You did see that a lot more when people were just doing doubles, it was in fact even more open.

I also question if this is indeed giving her a legitimate problem, or if we are being reactionary. Could be that as she regains her competitive form, it just won't matter.

 

[McBibus]

How can you say it's different. This is not a football game where you insult the referee so that he does not charge a foul or look the other way at an illegal goal. Here Plushenko is demanding pressure of the public towards the judges as if he were the leader of a hooligan band.

The Figure Skate is a polite environment, not a hooligans place. Only those who do not understand that can defend this type of attitude. In addition, Trusova always has the support of the public, even if she was skating in North Korea.

So don't be blind for defending your idols, the Plushenko thing is 100% reprehensible... What's next? support when Orser uses a vuvuzela to ask the public to put pressure on the judges so that Nathan Chen has less TES than Yuzuru...

I?m not defending plushenko.
I consider what he did out of place. It's a clow act.
Why I'm saying it's different.
I we cross in the office and I scream "Vlad you're the best" I may sound crazy but i'n not offensive to anynone.
If I scream "Your collegue is better" at your workplace I'm directly unrespectuful to you.
I can tolerate (not approving) the 1st, but not the 2nd
It's perfectly ok if you're more strict and consider both untolerable.

But again my problem is that you did bring him to the table to defend the shouters.
What he does is no justification for you, me or any other skating fan to be offensive to an athlete.
Todays shouters should be shamed.

P.S. you got me laughing with the Vuvuzela and I'm much more fashinated by Eteri than Plushenko.
Eteri has a dark side too but it only adds to her severe public image and I find her intriguing and I admire her ability to go under the skin of her skaters.
Plushenko's personality I don't like, though I have to admit it's a great showman and he could be funny to have a beer with him.

 

[Jontor]

Sooo... essentially the only thing she can do is try to jump even higher to compensate for that or she‘s doomed? Because I highly doubt this is going to continue to work long term when she‘s still growing...

Yes, and this is worrying. Because I don't think that Alëna is thinking long term. She has said that she is resigning after the olympic season. I fear that she will work with the technique she has and won't try to change it, despite the fact that she is now becoming a full grown woman and needs to change it.

 

[silveruskate]

Alena's issue isn't with delayed rotation, she starts rotating her body right as the pick touches the ice (same as Sasha and Anna). If you watch Polina, her issue was delayed rotation because her body doesn't turn until she is well in the air and she didn't bring her arms in until almost 1 full rotation. That's why despite big jumps and being relatively tight in the air she was prone to URs. Alena's issue is that her legs are very loose in the air, which slows down her rotation a lot. That's why despite the height, she's very borderline here. She has this on her axel, flip and lutz but her toeloop has good air position. Leg wrap and loose legs is incorrect technique just like edges or landing positions are. I tried to mention this before but it was thrown out as "it's an aesthetic choice" like it's a tano, which it's not; it's a whole GOE point and also affects rotation.

To fix this she'd have to rework those 3 jumps so she keeps her ankles close and legs tight, which is extremely difficult and I'd imagine would be as successful as people trying to change their edges or take offs. The only one I know who had a technique overall was Mao, and it took her many seasons and all her consistency. So I don't think it can be done while still being competitive for any skater. Small changes can be made but big changes require completely relearning the triples (much more difficult than learning them for the first time because you have muscle memory).

I still think what you're saying is false. Tight legs are better but you are kidding no one trying to claim it's similar to edge issues or landing position, nice try. There are cases of real leg-wrap which are way worse than what Aliona does. Agree it isn't 'delayed rotation', but for an Eteri skater yes. Anna and Sasha lasso into their jumps much quicker and turn on their pick more. Aliona has tried to pre-rotate even less this season but I don't think it's working out since she is getting into the rotation slower and has lost rotation speed in general. (Possibly due to conditioning, possibly other reasons.)

 

[Mawwerg]

I believe with all this fuss one probably the most important one of team T skills was forgotten. Yes, they can teach quads and triple axels, polish choreography, improve consistency and squeeze out all points from programs, however I think there is something at least as important - their ability to lead a skater to the most important event on peak of their form.

In a month Angels will have their first actual challenge and if they fail to convince the federation they can it too they probably will find themselves in very unfavorable position in Olympic season.

 

[colormyworld240]

I still think what you're saying is false. Tight legs are better but you are kidding no one trying to claim it's similar to edge issues or landing position, nice try. Agree it isn't 'delayed rotation', but for an Eteri skater yes. Anna and Sasha lasso into their jumps much quicker and turn on their pick more. Aliona has tried to pre-rotate even less this season but I don't think it's working out since she is getting into the rotation slower and has lost rotation speed in general. (Possibly due to conditioning, possibly other reasons.)

I've had this discussion before and we just had to agree to disagree. Edges (although those out outlined clearly so maybe not) and pre-rotation (takeoff), landing position, and air position are all equal GOE points and all have effects on how successful the jump is. The argument was if a leg wrap is bad body position, but then there are also arguments on how much pre-rotation "full blade" or hunched heavy landings are a negative GOE.

As for pre-rotation, I think Alena has the 1/2 turn on 3Lz, 3F, and 3T that she always had. Of the top Russian ladies, I think the only jump that doesn't have that is Liza's 3Lz (it looks 1/2 to me on her 3F, 3T, and 4T).

 

[silveruskate]

I've had this discussion before and we just had to agree to disagree. Edges (although those out outlined clearly so maybe not) and pre-rotation (takeoff), landing position, and air position are all equal GOE points and all have effects on how successful the jump is. The argument was if a leg wrap is bad body position, but then there are also arguments on how much pre-rotation "full blade" or hunched heavy landings are a negative GOE.

As for pre-rotation, I think Alena has the 1/2 turn on 3Lz, 3F, and 3T that she always had. Of the top Russian ladies, I think the only jump that doesn't have that is Liza's 3Lz (it looks 1/2 to me on her 3F, 3T, and 4T).

Even you know Aliona doesn't prerotate her jumps as much as Anna or Sasha. I don't like it, but I still think it's impressive they get into rotation so quickly.

Look at the air position of a solo Lutz of Anna who is known for great air-position and Aliona. This is the rotation before the final rotation:




The problem is blown out of proportion it almost becomes a mistruth. I remember you were the one saying Aliona was a slow skater before too and just has good edges yet the facts said different then as well.