2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 674 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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Everybody's arguing over the 4 quads thing. I personally think it's good plushenko lets Sasha fail sometimes rather than sheltering her entirely. If you are to fail, the cups of Russia are where they should of it. It's better than Sasha trying to suddenly do 4 quads at nationals.

Anyways on today's topic, the scoring was ridiculous. Figure skating isn't even a sport in Russia. A sport is meant to have fair judging and this was ludicrous judging. It makes a farce out of figure skating.
The issue is less 4 quads than it is 4 quads injured. Most have no problem with a healthy Sasha attempting 4 quads. The issue arrises when you let an injured Sasha attempt 4 quads plus a 3A when she never needed to to win.
 
You referenced the same document as me but I cant find anywhere in it that several errors should be punished harder than one.
I do actually belive that it should be but I cant find it in the document.
The platinum/Diamond rows refer not to number of errors but at what base level you would put the performace if you exclude the errors
I interpret it that way that if you put someone at Platinum level (Hanyu in your example above), PCS capping applies already with one serious error, but if you have skaters at Diamond level (Kamila, Anna), PCS capping only becomes relevant with multiple serious errors.

Edit: You were faster than me.
 
It's difficult to say with Kamila's PCS because she still has the best SP of the year hands down. Anna is more musical but her skating skills do not allow her to express it the way Kamila can. It's just a constraint she faces. Before I thought PCS was meant to be capped at 9.25/8.75 but as it's inside the the rules to give 9.75/9.5 then I see no reason not to. She should have the highest PCS of everyone in that case.

Kamila used to have what looked like a change of edge with her 3Lz-3T, but it's improved much much more. I couldn't give more than +3 as effortless throughout is needed to access +4/+5? But I would give the +3 for sure.

And the 3A!! She waited way too long for that resulting in no height/reduced turning momentum (and we know she doesn't need much height to rotate jumps). If she didn't hesitate I truly believe she would have gotten it.
 
Her skating lacks a bit of speed, power, and flexibility compared to the others. I would have put her ahead of Tuktamysheva, but not a big difference.
Wait so what's your top 5? Reading your previous post again, you comment on the current top 5's scores, but not their placements overall! So is Nugumanova 5th over Tuktamysheva?
 
It's difficult to say with Kamila's PCS because she still has the best SP of the year hands down. Anna is more musical but her skating skills do not allow her to express it the way Kamila can. It's just a constraint she faces.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Kamilla has the best Sp of this season!
my issues with her pcs was because of the fall should give a PCS reduction but maybe I was to harsh on it.
 
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Kamilla has the best Sp of this season!
my issues with her pcs was because of the fall should give a PCS reduction but maybe I was to harsh on it.
A fall should show up in the PCS but even internationally it doesn't happen so I'm certainly not surprised when it doesn't nationally. It's one area where judges are the same international or national. It should but it doesn't because judges still want the top skaters to still be in the fight even when they make mistakes. Only a meltdown will force their hand
 
Probably a silly question:

Unless I missed something earlier, the first non Axel edge jump didn’t come until skater 13. Is there a reason the Russian ladies don’t do them? Is it scoring reasons? Or was this just a coincidence?
 
I think she has already proven her point to the federation and if she were to withdraw (I'm for it cause she looked totally exhausted and it's only the SP) it certainly wouldn't be held against her but I hear she can be extremely stubborn in her own right. She's definitely one tough lady!
That's exactly what I think! :pray:
You basically can't showcase your dedication and capability more than Anna in the short. After such performance nobody could oppose giving her second chance in some additional test skate/competition in February (RusCup Final?) against some other third place applicants, right?
She absolutely deserves helping hand from federation, what a hero she is! 🥺
 
Probably a silly question:

Unless I missed something earlier, the first non Axel edge jump didn’t come until skater 13. Is there a reason the Russian ladies don’t do them? Is it scoring reasons? Or was this just a coincidence?
Yes it's for scoring reasons. The Salchow and Loop aren't as valuable as Lutz/Flip so you won't see them done often in a SP where you can do 3Lz and 3F, and 3T in combination with one of the jumps.
 
It's difficult to say with Kamila's PCS because she still has the best SP of the year hands down. Anna is more musical but her skating skills do not allow her to express it the way Kamila can. It's just a constraint she faces. Before I thought PCS was meant to be capped at 9.25/8.75 but as it's inside the the rules to give 9.75/9.5 then I see no reason not to. She should have the highest PCS of everyone in that case.

Kamila used to have what looked like a change of edge with her 3Lz-3T, but it's improved much much more. I couldn't give more than +3 as effortless throughout is needed to access +4/+5? But I would give the +3 for sure.

And the 3A!! She waited way too long for that resulting in no height/reduced turning momentum (and we know she doesn't need much height to rotate jumps). If she didn't hesitate I truly believe she would have gotten it.
It's not just the musicality that sets her apart though, even from Kamila. I think Anna is the most musical, but both Kamila and Sasha have good musicality. Another huge difference is that Anna is always invested in her performance. You can tell that she isn't just there to do her technical elements - while most skaters focus on the jumps or spins first and then perform more when they're done, Anna is performing during and between her elements, from the first note of the music to the last. The choreography, transitions, and even jumps add to the program and are integrated to interpret the music, she never phones it in. She can mess up jumps/spins but she's always giving her maximum in the choreography where as others let it affect the rest of their skate, or you can tell they're just going through the movements until their next jump.

Musicality is innate but her PE/INT also comes from other areas. Anna has the natural ability and she isn't more naturally musical today than she was when she was 10. But, she's also put in tremendous effort over many seasons to make her an artist who doesn't only focus on tech; her movements are more refined, extended, and have more intention. It pulls everything together and that should be rewarded.
 
I would withdraw Anna from free skate tomorrow. :(

There is nothing more I desire for Christmas than her third Nationals win, but it's just too risky having athlete and a fighter of this format to let her competitiveness destroy her health.
I don't know, if I'm more happy or scared after the short, still - bravo you tiny, great heroine! :bow:

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But she's going for a Russian Nationals three-peat which will not be done again for a very long time due to the massive competition domestically with the girls and ladies of Russia.

If Anna is not feeling well tomorrow then they should pull her out but they have to monitor her first and if she says she's good to go she's going to go.

Is her mother with her?if Anya is not feeling well tomorrow then her mother should help in the decision.
 
The issue is less 4 quads than it is 4 quads injured. Most have no problem with a healthy Sasha attempting 4 quads. The issue arrises when you let an injured Sasha attempt 4 quads plus a 3A when she never needed to to win.
If Sasha wasn't showing her injury, how was he supposed to know how badly she was injured? Sasha, for what it's worth, is a fighter. I guarantee she (like some other skaters I know) hide their pain. Even physiotherapists struggle to tell if somebody Is injured if they hide the extent of their pain, and I have a feeling Sasha did this.
 
Everybody's arguing over the 4 quads thing. I personally think it's good plushenko lets Sasha fail sometimes rather than sheltering her entirely. If you are to fail, the cups of Russia are where they should of it. It's better than Sasha trying to suddenly do 4 quads at nationals.

Anyways on today's topic, the scoring was ridiculous. Figure skating isn't even a sport in Russia. A sport is meant to have fair judging and this was ludicrous judging. It makes a farce out of figure skating.
So, sports that don't have judging at all are not "real sport" as well? :unsure: As far as i know, sport is were people are physically and mentally active and compete against each other. Judges are not the definition of sport.....
And "fair" is in the eye of the beholder, since it seems that everyone has a different definition of "fair"...:rolleye:
 
It's not just the musicality that sets her apart though, even from Kamila. I think Anna is the most musical, but both Kamila and Sasha have good musicality. Another huge difference is that Anna is always invested in her performance. You can tell that she isn't just there to do her technical elements - while most skaters focus on the jumps or spins first and then perform more when they're done, Anna is performing during and between her elements, from the first note of the music to the last. The choreography, transitions, and even jumps add to the program and are integrated to interpret the music, she never phones it in. She can mess up jumps/spins but she's always giving her maximum in the choreography where as others let it affect the rest of their skate, or you can tell they're just going through the movements until their next jump.

Musicality is innate but her PE/INT also comes from other areas. Anna has the natural ability and she isn't more naturally musical today than she was when she was 10. But, she's also put in tremendous effort over many seasons to make her an artist who doesn't only focus on tech; her movements are more refined, extended, and have more intention. It pulls everything together and that should be rewarded.
It's Anna's commitment to performance no matter how her program goes (even when she makes mistakes), her lines (other than sometimes her feet - could be pointed more), the way she carries herself, and her ethereal presence that sets her apart I think.
 
But she's going for a Russian Nationals three-peat which will not be done again for a very long time due to the massive competition domestically with the girls and ladies of Russia.

If Anna is not feeling well tomorrow then they should pull her out but they have to monitor her first and if she says she's good to go she's going to go.

Is her mother with her?if Anya is not feeling well tomorrow then her mother should help in the decision.
I think the only reason she’s there, is that 3 time win (if it happens) will be a massive reputation boost for Anna. It didn’t happen for a long time for ladies, and National title is a serious business in Russia. It would solidify her claim for an Olympic spot once and for all, even if she struggles afterwards to some degree, Russia won’t leave 3x national champion at home. She’ll have a much better sense of calm going into next season, if she wins or even medals here.
 
But she's going for a Russian Nationals three-peat which will not be done again for a very long time due to the massive competition domestically with the girls and ladies of Russia.

If Anna is not feeling well tomorrow then they should pull her out but they have to monitor her first and if she says she's good to go she's going to go.

Is her mother with her?if Anya is not feeling well tomorrow then her mother should help in the decision.
I agree they should pull her. She had nothing really to prove anyway. And already proved, even while clearly still sick/recovering that she can beat essentially everyone. She's already won a "small gold" in the SP. A 3 peat isn't worth her health, especially with Alena already missing and everyone else having struggles here and there. Especially since they've already said that it won't be the defining competition for World's and she was already penciled in on the team. Especially as with her difficult programs she risks damaging her recovery (and jeopardizing her attendance at future competitions) as well as risking her health, if she were to fall and get injured as well as mentally, if she were to have an implosion.

Her health isn't worth it for any competition. But she's never been to world's (due to COVID) and the Olympics are still a year away. They need to protect her if she's not recovered enough.

(She was stunning today though.)

For that matter, I wouldn't be upset at Liza T withdrawing as well. She needs it more (as her position is much more precarious) but she also looked tired.
 
So, sports that don't have judging at all are not "real sport" as well? :unsure: As far as i know, sport is were people are physically and mentally active and compete against each other. Judges are not the definition of sport.....
And "fair" is in the eye of the beholder, since it seems that everyone has a different definition of "fair"...:rolleye:
Yes, they aren't sports. Sport requires judging/competing by definition to be a sport (at least going by the Oxford definition) :" an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment." In order for there to be a competition, there has to be a measurement of success. In swimming or running this is times / positions. In figure skating, this is judging. If figure skating had no judging, it'd be a performing art not a sport.

Anything non competitive is either a performing art, a professional activity, or a recreational activity.

"Fair" in figure skating is where everybody has equal opportunity and is marked according to what they produce, rather than their previous reputation or who they are. In this case the judging was unfair, as they marked Valieva based on reputation rather than what she produced.

Creating excuses for a dodgy federation because a favourite is winning doesn't help push figure skating forwards as a sport. It makes it into a laughing stock.
 
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