2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[chasingneverland]

Because I can't imagine, that even when I was a 16 year old I would have made such a decision. And if I did I would hope people would call me on it.

That's the problem! No one did! The Fed could have stepped in when her coaches/doctor/parent's didn't. And they didn't! Quite the opposite, they proclaimed she didn't break any rules and praised it!

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Can you please provide a link for this? Nobody helps me finding the source if this story...

В короткой программе на чемпионате России Щербакова выступала с жаром в 38 градусов. Измерять температуру перед произвольной она отказалась

Фигуристка Анна Щербакова выступала в короткой программе на чемпионате России с температурой 38 градусов, сообщает журналист «Р-Спорта» Анатолий Самохвалов.

m.sports.ru

 

[Jontor]

Plushenko proved nothing. Coach has no legal right to withdraw figure skaters from the competition against their will. He is not a slave owner. Only doctors and probably parents (if athlete is minor) can withdraw an athlete againts his will.
You just shouldn't believe everything Plushenko says.

Exactly. Kostornaia withdrew herself reluctantly. It was probably the lack of training that made her realize there was no point. She had to quarantine in early December. Anna was off the ice for 6 days in late November. Huge difference.

 

[Draculus]

Because I can't imagine, that even when I was a 16 year old I would have made such a decision. And if I did I would hope people would call me on it.

Once again, with no one in her life willing to tell her how stupid and selfish she was, what has Anna learned? Nothing.

Probably this is one of the reasons you are not 3 times national champion. If you follow "blame hero" culture, it's quite hard to have such achievements. Nearly impossible I would say.

 

[chasingneverland]

How does that make it better for Sasha? She still has to compete in a further competition/s instead of focusing on trying to heal.

I have no faith in the Russian Figure Skating Fed, absolutely none, I have no doubt, none at all, that if Sasha tried to call their bluff, they would leave her off the Worlds Team. They don't like to be crossed or tested. They will punish you, even to their own detriment, to prove that they own you, that they're the boss and you're just a lowly mortal, and your career is entirely dependent on their wishes. They will crush you and they won't give a damn, just read up on how they treated Artur Gachinsky, just read what they said publicly about him on his retirement. It will make you sick.

They could avoid this by pushing back Nationals, but no, the Russian Figure Skating Fed always knows best.

My biggest wish is that one day it collapses and on that day I will laugh. And I hope a new better Fed will take it's place.

Oh I agree.

I just think it's hypocritical to argue for the RusFed to be fair and then also argue that they name Sasha without naming Makar.

 

[anonymoose_au]

What is not welcome by me and many others here are the attempts to preach from supposedly higher moral grounds than those of Russian Fed, Russian skaters, their families and teams.

This is a late reply, but are you saying that you think Russia, Europe and the US can't be criticised for their complete messing up in dealing with this virus?

I'm sort of stunned that I seem to care more about the millions dead across the globe than the people in those countries!

Like I can't imagine living in the US and not being incandescent with rage over the shambles they've made over there more that 300,000 dead. 1 out of every 1000 people dead and not all of them are old or with co-morbidities and even if they were those are human beings, people with feelings and emotions.

The fact that Moscow is literally crawling with COVID and the Russian Government isn't trying to stop it? Doesn't that make you angry? Aren't you constantly on edge waiting to hear if your older relatives are the next to die?

Or am I just unreasonably anxious in this situation?

 

[Giltedge]

If Anna kills some judge with a knife after competition - she will go to prison, criminal punishment in Russia from 14 years. For "minor crimes" ("administrative responsibility" in Russian, sorry do not know proper English term) - from 16 years.
Yes, she will be treated differently - but basically it means she will have something like "extenuating circumstances" and some form of punishment (like death penalty) cannot be applied at all. But she will be responsible not her parents. A little bit less responsible but still.

If, having dealt with the judge, Anna then stops by at the RLT en route to the OG, and she wields said utensil to equally lethal effect here, extenuating circumstances would most definitely apply, and Anna would let off by the court with a resounding cheer for carrying out her civic duty. Doubtless, Alexandra would accompany her here wielding her katana, as well as Аlёnа with her trident and horns sharpened for action.

 

[Draculus]

В короткой программе на чемпионате России Щербакова выступала с жаром в 38 градусов. Измерять температуру перед произвольной она отказалась

Фигуристка Анна Щербакова выступала в короткой программе на чемпионате России с температурой 38 градусов, сообщает журналист «Р-Спорта» Анатолий Самохвалов.

m.sports.ru

yep. it is. If you follow original story (from that rt-sport journalist that is referenced by everyone, including link you provided) https://rsport.ria.ru/20201227/scherbakova-1591097100.html
you will see how author explained what she feels, how she feels, what was her thoughts, how she manipulated her parents/coaches/fed,...
nice story but he never explained where he got this information (especially what Anna feels/thinks)
Also he said that she had corona while Anna herself said about pneumonia.
And he did not provide any references.

Quite low credibility from my point of view.

 

[chasingneverland]

This is a late reply, but are you saying that you think Russia, Europe and the US can't be criticised for their complete messing up in dealing with this virus?

I'm sort of stunned that I seem to care more about the millions dead across the globe than the people in those countries!

Like I can't imagine living in the US and not being incandescent with rage over the shambles they've made over there more that 300,000 dead. 1 out of every 1000 people dead and not all of them are old or with co-morbidities and even if they were those are human beings, people with feelings and emotions.

The fact that Moscow is literally crawling with COVID and the Russian Government isn't trying to stop it? Doesn't that make you angry? Aren't you constantly on edge waiting to hear if your older relatives are the next to die?

Or am I just unreasonably anxious in this situation?

I completely agree with you here!!

Of note: Most of this discussion would be avoided in Federations and countries themselves responded to COVID better.

It's also why I won't vilify a young girl for a decision when Presidents, leaders of sovereign nations, health councils, etc have made much worse decisions leading to this one. They have blood on their hands and they're dealing with confirmed positive cases of COVID with health and scientific information that's far more than that given to a 16 year old girl. (All we know about Anna is she came to nationals having had pneumonia and a negative COVID test.)

 

[anonymoose_au]

Probably this is one of the reasons you are not 3 times national champion. If you follow "blame hero" culture, it's quite hard to have such achievements. Nearly impossible I would say.

No I guess not.

But call me strange, I'm far happy to NOT be the sort of person who looks my family in the eye and basically gives them the finger for being worried about me.

TBH I don't see why I should care about Anna's health when are so clearly doesn't. Have at it Anna, but don't expect me to feel sorry for you if it all goes to Hell.

Various posters have gotten their back up because we've apparently tried to "coddle" Anna under the guise of being concerned, so fine I won't.

Oh I agree.

I just think it's hypocritical to argue for the RusFed to be fair and then also argue that they name Sasha without naming Makar.

Well I wasn't focused on that, but yes they should follow their own precedent and name the two spots as they always have.

That's the Russian Figure Skating Fed for you though, always moving the goal posts.

Which is why I'm worried for Sasha...I can see her aggravating her injury "winning" the spot any then not even able to compete

 

[Amei]

While Aliona will feel like she was robbed, and in a direct contradiction to claims here regarding how only Anna could withdraw herself, she was withdrawn by Plushy, she wanted to go.

So guess who's she's gonna blame? (But hey for most you that's a big old bonus.)

Well my remark to that is that Kostornaia might not know the state of Shcherbakova's health (IDK if they communicate with each other), I'm sure had Shcherbakova's health been to a certain point as she is legally a minor her parents and/or coaches could have overruled her decision and withdrew her. Plushenko I believe said that Kostornaia couldn't get through her programs due to breathing problems. Could she blame her coach for being overly cautious, perhaps, but hopefully at this point he has developed a trust with her that he made the decision he did, looking out for her best interest. While I'm an advocate that the skaters should be able to make the skate or not skate call even if they are injured or recovering from illness, there's such a thing as taking a calculated risk; Shcherbakova had a 'milestone'/historic opportunity at Nationals this year to get 3 consecutive titles, and was not far from her performance level of last year based on her cup performances and had a shot to win Nationals, Kostornaia is not at the same level she was at last Nationals based on her cup performances and wouldn't have particularly been a favorite to win without that triple axel, so if you don't have a shot to win I can understand saying don't take the risk of exacerbating your health if its shaky due to illness or injury.

 

[trkvy]

Have at it Anna, but don't expect me to feel sorry for you

I don't think Anna expects anything from you. Actually I doubt anybody does.

 

[chasingneverland]

I don't think Anna expects anything from you. Actually I doubt anybody does.

This has gotten unnecessarily vicious and personal.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I don't think Anna expects anything from you. Actually I doubt anybody does.

Let me rephrase that.

Don't expect me to join in with any hand-wringing here if Anna does get injured.

Or act the least bit surprised if she does.

I look forward to no-one criticising another skater for doing a stupid thing again. Sure will cut down on the post count here!

 

[chasingneverland]

No I guess not.

But call me strange, I'm far happy to NOT be the sort of person who looks my family in the eye and basically gives them the finger for being worried about me.

TBH I don't see why I should care about Anna's health when are so clearly doesn't. Have at it Anna, but don't expect me to feel sorry for you if it all goes to Hell.

Various posters have gotten their back up because we've apparently tried to "coddle" Anna under the guise of being concerned, so fine I won't.


Well I wasn't focused on that, but yes they should follow their own precedent and name the two spots as they always have.

That's the Russian Figure Skating Fed for you though, always moving the goal posts.

Which is why I'm worried for Sasha...I can see her aggravating her injury "winning" the spot any then not even able to compete

I don't think anyone has tried to "coddle" Anna? Being concerned is different than insulting her intelligence and character anyway.
Also no one has said they're NOT being concerned for Anna's health.

I'm worried for Sasha too although I'm also worried for Aliona, Liza, etc. (Hell I'm worried for most of the national team.) (However, I was worried for Sasha for during Rostelecom too when it was clear she was hurt.)

As for always moving the goal posts yes. But at least they were upfront about it this time. (And this is an anomaly of a season, starting with Kamila skating in senior skates. I think it was established fairly early that it would be.)

 

[Giltedge]

This is a late reply, but are you saying that you think Russia, Europe and the US can't be criticised for their complete messing up in dealing with this virus?

I'm sort of stunned... [snip]...

Or am I just unreasonably anxious in this situation?

Is that a rhetorical question?

Here, especially to soothe thy savage breast, is your favourite colour....

 

[chasingneverland]

Let me rephrase that.

Don't expect me to join in with any hand-wringing here if Anna does get injured.

Or act the least bit surprised if she does.

I look forward to no-one criticising another skater for doing a stupid thing again. Sure will cut down on the post count here!

Why don't you see that it's possible to defend Anna and still disagree it was a foolish decision and it should have been taken out of her hands completely.

Why do you continue to hold other skaters/coaches to different standards?

You can't criticize Anna without criticizing other similar decisions and recognizing that it did NOT take place in a vacuum. By your logic, I "look forward" to you criticizing Liza/Sofia and Sasha and their coaches and all subsequent decisions by other skaters/coaches.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I don't think anyone has tried to "coddle" Anna

Perhaps but was another thread, but posters were clearly mocking other posters concern saying "Anna's not some delicate flower." "She has a will of iron" etc etc.

I still maintain saying this sort of stuff it basically saying anyone who doesn't drag themselves through sickness or injury is less than.

If you admire Anna, Liza and Sasha for competing I don't see how you can't look down on or at the very least disappointed in skaters who don't.

That's what I mean by a dangerous precedent, if they can do it, what's Aliev's excuse, or Nikita and Viktoria's or any of them. What are they? Wusses? Making excuses? Running scared? Gaming the system?

If pneumonia, post COVID recovering and serious injury aren't a reason what is?

The next conclusion to make is any skater who's not literally in a hospital bed should be penalised for not attending an event.

 

[Mawwerg]

I think it's actually very Anna. She's clearly the fiercest competitor in the field and gain a lot from competing.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Why don't you see that it's possible to defend Anna and still disagree it was a foolish decision and it should have been taken out of her hands completely.

Because by her own admission Anna was willing to collapse out on the ice, she was willing to relapse and just "deal with the health issues" later.

That means she was well aware of this possibility.

How do you think her parents, Eteri and everyone else close to her would have felt if that's what happened. Anna's parents must love her dearly, did she even consider their pain and anguish if the worst had happened? She must have known how worried they be. Or does she actually believe and this is frightening to me, that they would have been more pained by her not winning, that her worth as a person is based entirely on whether she skates or not?