2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 738 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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She‘ll start the Olympic season as number one and it will be reflected in her PCS. But she cannot afford any weakness. If she does, they‘ll be ready to push Kamila ahead of her, like they did with Alina and Evgenia.
Honestly, I think Anna has already lost the PCS advantage over Kamila. We saw at nationals, they basically had the same scores. Anna performed the best that she could, there's really no more improvement she can have in PE/INT (she can however improve her SS). Kamila, on the other hand, while it was her best outing, was still very reserved in her performance and already got the same scores. If she works on her PE/INT in the off-season, and I believe that she will, and delivers better performances next season, her scores will rise more.

And the big thing is Kamila had a fall on her 3A, and we've seen her land it. Anna may have created the moment here, but if Kamila landed her 3A in the short she would've probably had the highest PCS and won nationals regardless of how Anna performed. Even though the performance as a whole still has a lot of room for improvement.

Everyone can say how Anna's artistry was much better here than Kamila, but the scores indicate that they're the same, with Kamila having much more room to improve.
 
Everyone can say how Anna's artistry was much better here than Kamila, but the scores indicate that they're the same, with Kamila having much more room to improve.
True for these Russian Nationals, but won't be true internationally, at least not from the very beginning of next season.
Look at, for example, how Yulia's PCS sky rocketed from her first GP to Europeans in the Olympic season. Same with Alina. But that did not happen cause they improved, but cause they established themselves as favorites, so the judges jumped on board.
If Kamila can go clean time and time again and win her asignments, they will push her.
If she does not, they will push one of the other top girls.
And I don't even accuse the judges of corruption or anything, I think much of it happens subconsciously. They are humans and get inlfuenced by reputation, name, how loud does the audience cheer...
For example, I don't think Adelina's score in Sochi was so inflated only cause all the judges were corrupt or something, I think it also played a huge role how the audience reacted, the mood in the arena, Russian underdog at Olympics in Russia skates the best skates of her lifes etc. If we wanted to avoid any emotional or subjective influnce in scoring we'd have to get machines
 
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Honestly, I think Anna has already lost the PCS advantage over Kamila. We saw at nationals, they basically had the same scores. Anna performed the best that she could, there's really no more improvement she can have in PE/INT (she can however improve her SS). Kamila, on the other hand, while it was her best outing, was still very reserved in her performance and already got the same scores. If she works on her PE/INT in the off-season, and I believe that she will, and delivers better performances next season, her scores will rise more.

And the big thing is Kamila had a fall on her 3A, and we've seen her land it. Anna may have created the moment here, but if Kamila landed her 3A in the short she would've probably had the highest PCS and won nationals regardless of how Anna performed. Even though the performance as a whole still has a lot of room for improvement.

Everyone can say how Anna's artistry was much better here than Kamila, but the scores indicate that they're the same, with Kamila having much more room to improve.
It's important to keep in mind what did happen at nationals.

After Sasha's stunning skate, Kamila rose to the challenge and delivered an even more stunning skate and absolutely brought the house down. I think the judges were reacting to Kamila's skate as if they had just seen their RusNats champion. I think they scored her as if she was the newly crowned RusNats champion. Yes the 2x defending champion was still to come but I don't think anyone - including Anna's own coaches - expected what was about to happen. (Remember the last time the judges saw Anna she was struggling to breathe after her SP. They probably didn't think Anna could make it through the FS.) So with Kamila's PCS sooo high there wasn't anywhere higher they could really go with Anna's. Although it was really Anna's TES that made the difference.

In all of this (and in every judging scenario), it's important to remember judges are human. They should be objectively looking at the skates in front of them but they're human. That's why a reputation for being clean, being artistic, and having a winning resume is sooo important. Because judges are humans and they have biases. Before you even begin to skate, they have an expectation of what they are about to see.

Likewise, going into this competition, before anyone stepped foot on the ice, it's been pretty obvious that Kamila is being pushed and positioned as the heir apparent of the Russian ladies crown (and maybe even the OGM). That's the expectation that everyone - including the judges - had going into this competition. And you can see that in her scores in at the Cup of Russia and her SP/FS scores - even with a fall on the 3A in the SP.

Interestingly enough though, I think while Kamila probably kept her position as heir apparent, I actually think Anna and Sasha did more for their cases here.

Another thing to note though is how these girls have been received internationally. Anna, Kamila, and Aliona in particular have lines and artistic styles that tend to be perceived favourably internationally and have been well received in the past.

Kamila, for example, handily beat Alysa in the FS at the GPF, despite coming off of injuries and without her two 4T while Alysa had two 4Lz and two 3As. Yes, Alysa fell and had other underrotation mistakes but the message the judges sent was clear. We value artistry and clean programs over technical content. (For the record, I think that's the same message they're sending Sasha.) When Kamila got her 4Ts back it was game over. She beat Sasha's FS junior WR FS despite Sasha's TES being higher. She also blew away Sasha's WR total score by almost 5 points! despite Sasha's SP AND FS TES being higher. The only one who held their junior record is Aliona's WR SP indicating yet again that judges are looking for and value artistry. In fact, it's interesting to note that at World Juniors Kamila's FS PCS were 6 POINTS HIGHER that Alysa's. Yes Alysa had mistakes but that's a giant difference when considering the number 1 junior (and defending national senior US champion) from the US versus the number 1 junior from Russia. It's also interesting to note that Daria's FS PCS were also quite a bit higher (3 points) that Alysa's too and that might be even more indicative as Daria was the number 2 from Russia. As Daria's style is also artistic, it's a notable difference.

Anna too, even as number 2 and even with not completely clean skates (such as a fall and underration so only 1/3 clean quads) has gotten incredibly close to Sasha's WR (3 clean quad) TES skate. If Anna had stayed upright on her 4F she would have beaten Sasha's WR TES skate (even with 0 GOE on the 4F and including the underrotation on the 4 Lz). Considering Anna's PCS were rapidly approaching Aliona's internationally I think it's clear that judges value her artistry and interpretation.

I think it's very clear what the judges value when it comes to determining PCS - artistry, interpretation, and clean skates. (Reputation and technical content are a bonus after that has been established.)

EDIT: Anna and Kamila are artistic, ethereal skaters and are quite consistent (considering their technical content.) So they innately have what judges subconsciously look for. They also now have the reputation as Russians perceived 1/2 (order may vary) as well as a glittering international resume (with Anna being the 3x RusNats champion and Kamila being the reigning JGPF and Junior Worlds champion). Finally, they also have incredible technical content (but that's the bonus rather than the base for their PCS). (So if their technical content fails them slightly (in one particular occasion), they still have their reputation/resume and artistry/performance/interpretation.)
 
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Of course such a long interview is always rehearsed, only short on-the-spot ones are spontaneous. I have also given interviews on TV and I know that for a long one they first ask you to think and maybe make notes, and then you can peep into the notes while you answer questions. But what she was saying is not written by somebody else, it was done by herself.
I don't think this interview was rehearsed or that she wrote any notes. Long doesn't mean rehearsed. Do think this Medvedeva interview was rehearsed too? https://youtu.be/CnRrRKpOpu4
 
Last Euros were a robbery for Anna I've never really mind, because every great athlete needs that one moment of injustice to light the competitive fire under them for the rest of their careers. :devil:
I don't think so but it really could have gone either way. Neither were clean technically and neither performed to the best of their ability.
 
Last Euros were a robbery for Anna I've never really mind, because every great athlete needs that one moment of injustice to light the competitive fire under them for the rest of their careers. :devil:
I rather disagree. Some tech calls were ignored for both Anna/ Aliona, but Aliona with 3 3As will probably always score higher PCS than Anna internationally. This is due to the impact that great SS have on in person enjoyment of skaters performances. Valieva's SS aren't as good as Aliona's but she does have a lot of speed. This will influence judging next year, too. I do hope the PE and IN are fairly judged though. The difference between Anna and Aliona in these two categories in not extreme, but the difference between Anna and Valieva is...
 
So if Anna was a legend for not withdrawing, what does that make her after she won the whole damn thing?

I was on her side from the start.

This, THIS, is the kind of fight and determination and willing to
risk everything that I want from the athletes in all sports.

It’s also the reason that we got one of the best and fiercest competitions ever seen. The freakin wall street journal covered figure skating for goodness sake.

And what I saw from my favorite skater, Liza, also made me love and respect her a million times more, because she doesn‘t need to put herself through this anymore. I would run through a wall for her now.

The above attributes would make everyone not in sports better too.
 
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Will the novice prodigies (Akatieva, Samodelkina, Zhilina) be eligible for senior nationals next season? Are they technically international juniors this year?
 
July 7, 2007 for Akatyeva
Feb 18, 2007 for Samodelkina

so they will be eligible in juniors.

Zhilina is a year younger, born in May of 2008, so if it’s 13 before July 1st rule, she will qualify for juniors? Sorry, I can’t remember which competitions count age how.

judging by how Valieva was an exception in Russian seniors this year, and was born in April 2006, they will not qualify

edit: I am talking 2021, since 2020 is done
 
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Will the novice prodigies (Akatieva, Samodelkina, Zhilina) be eligible for senior nationals next season? Are they technically international juniors this year?
Sofia S is 13 so old enough for juniors this year. Sofia A is 13 also but I think 6 days too young to be a junior internationally this year. Veronika is too young - she's only 12. (Both Sofia A and Veronika should turn junior and senior the same year. Both will be juniors next year.)
 
It's important to keep in mind what did happen at nationals.

After Sasha's stunning skate, Kamila rose to the challenge and delivered an even more stunning skate and absolutely brought the house down. I think the judges were reacting to Kamila's skate as if they had just seen their RusNats champion. I think they scored her as if she was the newly crowned RusNats champion. Yes the 2x defending champion was still to come but I don't think anyone - including Anna's own coaches - expected what was about to happen. (Remember the last time the judges saw Anna she was struggling to breathe after her SP. They probably didn't think Anna could make it through the FS.) So with Kamila's PCS sooo high there wasn't anywhere higher they could really go with Anna's. Although it was really Anna's TES that made the difference.

In all of this (and in every judging scenario), it's important to remember judges are human. They should be objectively looking at the skates in front of them but they're human. That's why a reputation for being clean, being artistic, and having a winning resume is sooo important. Because judges are humans and they have biases. Before you even begin to skate, they have an expectation of what they are about to see.

Likewise, going into this competition, before anyone stepped foot on the ice, it's been pretty obvious that Kamila is being pushed and positioned as the heir apparent of the Russian ladies crown (and maybe even the OGM). That's the expectation that everyone - including the judges - had going into this competition. And you can see that in her scores in at the Cup of Russia and her SP/FS scores - even with a fall on the 3A in the SP.

Interestingly enough though, I think while Kamila probably kept her position as heir apparent, I actually think Anna and Sasha did more for their cases here.

Another thing to note though is how these girls have been received internationally. Anna, Kamila, and Aliona in particular have lines and artistic styles that tend to be perceived favourably internationally and have been well received in the past.

Kamila, for example, handily beat Alysa in the FS at the GPF, despite coming off of injuries and without her two 4T while Alysa had two 4Lz and two 3As. Yes, Alysa fell and had other underrotation mistakes but the message the judges sent was clear. We value artistry and clean programs over technical content. (For the record, I think that's the same message they're sending Sasha.) When Kamila got her 4Ts back it was game over. She beat Sasha's FS junior WR FS despite Sasha's TES being higher. She also blew away Sasha's WR total score by almost 5 points! despite Sasha's SP AND FS TES being higher. The only one who held their junior record is Aliona's WR SP indicating yet again that judges are looking for and value artistry. In fact, it's interesting to note that at World Juniors Kamila's FS PCS were 6 POINTS HIGHER that Alysa's. Yes Alysa had mistakes but that's a giant difference when considering the number 1 junior (and defending national senior US champion) from the US versus the number 1 junior from Russia. It's also interesting to note that Daria's FS PCS were also quite a bit higher (3 points) that Alysa's too and that might be even more indicative as Daria was the number 2 from Russia. As Daria's style is also artistic, it's a notable difference.

Anna too, even as number 2 and even with not completely clean skates (such as a fall and underration so only 1/3 clean quads) has gotten incredibly close to Sasha's WR (3 clean quad) TES skate. If Anna had stayed upright on her 4F she would have beaten Sasha's WR TES skate (even with 0 GOE on the 4F and including the underrotation on the 4 Lz). Considering Anna's PCS were rapidly approaching Aliona's internationally I think it's clear that judges value her artistry and interpretation.

I think it's very clear what the judges value when it comes to determining PCS - artistry, interpretation, and clean skates. (Reputation and technical content are a bonus after that has been established.)

EDIT: Anna and Kamila are artistic, ethereal skaters and are quite consistent (considering their technical content.) So they innately have what judges subconsciously look for. They also now have the reputation as Russians perceived 1/2 (order may vary) as well as a glittering international resume (with Anna being the 3x RusNats champion and Kamila being the reigning JGPF and Junior Worlds champion). Finally, they also have incredible technical content (but that's the bonus rather than the base for their PCS). (So if their technical content fails them slightly (in one particular occasion), they still have their reputation/resume and artistry/performance/interpretation.)
Yes, and I think this is superimportant for Sasha. This is the way she NEEDS to go. If she has more fantastic clean skates like this, I am sure her PCS will go up.
 
Yes, and I think this is superimportant for Sasha. This is the way she NEEDS to go. If she has more fantastic clean skates like this, I am sure her PCS will go up.
Agreed. Completely!! I think it's better for her to not be at full difficulty but clean!! She can always add difficulty later (the jumps are the easy part - well they are for her because she's superwoman haha) but if she's clean she'll prove to RusFed, judges (both domestic and international), and MOST IMPORTANTLY herself that she can be clean!! Then her PCS and GOE will go up. It also means when she does fell and mess up (and she will they all will - they're human) her PCS will save her (as much as they can.) Plus her confidence will go up and for her, I think that's the most important thing. She seems more susceptible to mistakes due to confidence NOT ability.
 
Sasha's performance level goes up so many notches when she's not trying for too many quads imo. I really felt like at RussNats her energy went into her performance and step sequence. I loved both her performances and have rewatched them several times. It's not something I usually do when it comes to Sasha.

I hope she or her team tap into this strategy more rather than go back to five billion quads once she's healed.
 
Sasha's performance level goes up so many notches when she's not trying for too many quads imo. I really felt like at RussNats her energy went into her performance and step sequence. I loved both her performances and have rewatched them several times. It's not something I usually do when it comes to Sasha.

I hope she or her team tap into this strategy more rather than go back to five billion quads once she's healed.
Agreed. I actually think she performs her SP amazingly well probably because there are less jumps so she had more time and energy to focus and it was amazing!! And with the reduced tech in the FS I thought she performed better than I've ever seen her perform!!
 
Everyone can say how Anna's artistry was much better here than Kamila, but the scores indicate that they're the same, with Kamila having much more room to improve.
And that's why I'm annoyed for Anna, because relative to her, Kamila's PE/IN scoring doesn't match reality. We can already predict how those PCS scores will move (regardless of what the girls actually put out on the ice), so Anna's only viable strategy is to maintain an edge over Kamila on TES. She might have to add a quad to stay on top as the PCS gap closes.
 
Trusova's technical content

Ranking of the last two season's free skate Tech score + GOE (including deductions for falls):
1. Skate Canada 99.20 - landed 3 quads, 1 fall on a quad
2. Nepela Mem 98.34 - landed 3 quads, doubled her Loop combo with -GOE
3. RusNats (this year) 97.75 - landed 2 quads, CLEAN
4. Japan Open 97.51 - landed 4 quads (one with - GOE), UR 3Lo combo
5. GP Final 95.80 - landed 3 quads, 1 fall on a quad and popped 1 quad
6. Russian Cup Four 94.89 - landed 3 quads, 1 fall on a quad and 1 fall on 2Lo combo
7. Rostelecom (last year) 93.34 - landed 3 quads, 1 fall on a quad and 1 fall on 3Lo combo
8. Russian Cup Two 89.46 - landed 2 quads, 1 bad quad (not deemed a fall but judged as one) and 1 fall on 3Lo combo
9. Europeans 83.14 - landed 1 quad, 2 falls on quads
10. RusNats (last year) 80.74 - landed 1 quad, 2 falls on quads and popped 1 quad
11. Rostelecom (this year) 61.80 - landed 1 quad (with - GOE), 3 falls on quads and 1 fall on 3Lz

It is obvious to me that it's essential to be clean. Her skate here at Nationals is her 3rd best ever! And it's only -1.45 points behind her best technical score from Skate Canada. It's interesting that the score from Japan Open, where she was clean-ish and landed four quads(!) had a lower score!! But that skate at JO was overall not well executed so allthough she was "clean", her GOE was not that great.

That 97.75 tech score had some minor issues. A ! call on the Flip and lost levels in Steps and one Spin lost her 2.25 points. These points was left on the table by Sasha. With them she would have scored exactly 100 points in Tech and it would have been her best score ever.

This layout she had here is such a smart layout. Anna showed that last season as she had exactly the same. It's a moneybringer with max jump content in BV. If she could work on this layout and stabilize it, I am sure her GOEs and PCS will go up.

Then later she can add a 4T to the free skate. That will replace a 2A so it's about +8.00 points (with +3 GOE).

Adding a 4th quad is NOT good IMO. Then she will have to take out a 3F and the added BV is not that great, but the added risk is soo much higher.

She will need the 3A though as she is behind Anna in PCS. If she can stabilize her 3A in the short, maybe later she can also introduce it in the free program. Then she can take out the remaining 2A. It would be a much better strategy than adding a 4th quad IMO.

Still, a three quad program and two 3As will not be enough when Anna adds her 3rd quad. Not the way the scoring is going now. Sasha is too far behind in spins, GOEs and PCS. So she needs to work on her GOEs and her PCS, and she can only do that with clean skates.
 
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She‘ll start the Olympic season as number one and it will be reflected in her PCS. But she cannot afford any weakness. If she does, they‘ll be ready to push Kamila ahead of her, like they did with Alina and Evgenia. And even more so this time because Anna doesn‘t have Evgenia‘s international track record and Kamila‘s more hyped than Alina ever was as a junior. So, yeah, I think Anna needs to be careful and I hope she realises this and RESTS now. This season isn‘t important and she should use it to get completely healthy. Because next year is going to be very, very tough and she needs to be ready if she wants that Olympic crown. She seems smart, so I guess she‘s aware of this.

The only interesting thing at this point, is how they‘ll handle Aliona‘s PCS if she gets back into sufficient shape. It would be good if she could show a FS with a 3A this season to let the fed know not to count her out but with the troubles she‘s had (I read on instagram - so, NOT confirmed! - that Rozanov said in an interview she‘s not jumping yet and will only once she‘s completely healthy), I‘m doubtful...
The main difference there is that Anna's tech content is actually quite a bit stronger than Kamila's. In the FS, the difference between Anna and Kamila was over 7.5 points. The Olympics tend to heavily favor technical content over PCS. But also, in terms of PCS scoring, I think Anna would also do well in Olympics because the programs project emotions easily to the casual viewer who has no idea about steps or skating skills, and such skating tends to get scored especially well PCS-wise in the Olympics as well.

I would say that if both skaters skate clean programs, in order for Kamila to win she would require a 3Axel upgrade in both her SP as well as the FS, and also would need to have a PCS advantage. None of that is impossible by any means, but in virtually every scenario like this it's the newcomer challenger who has the TES advantage, which at this point in time isn't really the case here.
 
But also, in terms of PCS scoring, I think Anna would also do well in Olympics because the programs project emotions easily to the casual viewer who has no idea about steps or skating skills, and such skating tends to get scored especially well PCS-wise in the Olympics as well.
SS is one component, IN and PE are two. So, Kamila obviously winning over Anna in SS (not as much as Aliona btw) goes together with her obviously losing to Anna in these two components. I believe that casual viewers understanding the difference in PE and IN between those two are not that wrong.
If SS were the one and only component for judges, they would give Sasha higher PCS.
Although I do understand that judging panels (international, too) might totally disregard any mentioned differences and might give PCS according to preconceived ranking, whatever it happens to be.
And in absolutely any case, one of those fantastic skaters wins, others lose. The decision of the judging panel will be supported by the majority of fans only if there is a huge difference in performances, like the winner skates clean with maximal content, the losers fall twice. In any other case there will be a controversy with attempts to review GOE, PCS, anything. It is human to feel for one's favourites. (Actually, having at least two is a win-win strategy 😁).
 
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