2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[CrazyKittenLady]

Good lord. A quad toe? A more revealing costume? Could be anything.

4Lz+2A+Seq is my guess

 

[Novalis]

4Lz+2A+Seq is my guess

A cartwheel in the free

 

[colormyworld240]

Now, the raise of the age limit could admittedly lead to a few “lost generations“ but eventually, it might force coaches to focus on more sustainable methods that would allow peaking at a later age. If you know you will have to hold on until you’re 17, you might not push yourself too far as a 14 year old, allowing a more gradual growth, rather than the explosive one we’re seeint today, where the rise is extremely fast but then so is the fall afterwards. Of course, I do realise that there might be severe drawbacks to this (e.g. too many talents stuck in juniors for too long, forcing them to give up sooner) and this is all very theoretical. But since we‘ve had this discussion ad nauseam, I‘m not going to rehash any more arguments.

I don't think there'd be lost generations, I think it would be the same thing, just in juniors instead of seniors. And then when those juniors go into seniors, they will be beating the older seniors. Everything will be shifted back a few years, but you'll still have new skaters overtaking the old. The issue isn't really that younger girls can do what older girls aren't able to anymore, it's that younger girls are doing more than older girls are able to at any age. They have a different ability, regardless of age.

If you compare a 15 y/o Alina against 15 y/o 3A, they had quads and she didn't. If you take 17 y/o Alina against 17 y/o 3A, they still have quads and she still didn't. I love Alina, but it's obvious that she cannot match their technical ability at 13, 15, or 17. She didn't get pushed out because they were younger, she did because they could do quads and 3As but she couldn't.

Because of how competitive the discipline is, girls will try to do their max. The current novices, Akatieva, Samodelkina, etc. have all been working on these elements way before their international debut, so I think it's quite clear they're going to do it regardless of the age limit. They need them for local competitions, even before thinking about things like Worlds and Olympics. Who knows if it'll be sustainable, but they know there are many skaters who they have to compete with. I really think the only way it will slow down is if there are less skaters, and there probably will be in the future as children + parents start to realize it's an oversaturated field. Then it'll cycle through a period of less skaters (and therefore less turnover) due to the lack of interest.

 

[colormyworld240]

I remember Daria Sadkova saying something about how someone from Khrustalny came to her and told her that Eteri wanted her to come try out for the team and it took her by surprise because she didn't know they were watching her at all.
They seem to have contacts or people keeping an eye on potential talent from the regions.

There's also skaters who have talked about directly going to Khrustalny to try out, so there's probably both cases.
And there's also skaters who come directly from Sambo itself and just change to Eteri's group, like in Shcherbakova's case.

About the selection process. My impression is that it's almost like auditioning for Eteri, if she sees potential, they ask the skater to stay. And I suppose there's a testing period or something because of how Alina was kicked out at one point and then Eteri changed her mind and asked to give it another try.

It's interesting and I'd love to understand how they do it and what they look for. They've made some "questionable" choices in the past, at least to me. With skaters like Kamila, Sasha, Alena Kanysheva and Nastia Tarakanova, they were the obvious choices as they were already well known and leading in their age groups. But I have no idea what possessed them to accept Alina and Alena, considering how they skated before going there. Especially since there were more well known and established skaters at the same age. I had similar thoughts with Maiia.

I think Eteri said that Alina didn't have triples or anything but she could "knew how to pose (maybe skate/move/dance?) beautifully". As a big fan of Alina's, I've watch her skates when she was younger and the first word that comes to mind is messy. So it's a real head scratcher. I'm very interested in who they've rejected.

 

[nussnacker]

Can you explain how Aliona has trained or approached skating differently. Some of us are interested but have no idea what is going on.

I think she explained it herself, right? It sounded like in this coaching relationship she holds a lot more power on what exactly she’s training, than in her previous one. I remember her saying, that if she doesn’t want to skate a program with jumps, Rozanov allows her to just skate without them. I can see why her stamina declined, if that was the approach.

 

[zounger]

I think Eteri said that Alina didn't have triples or anything but she could "knew how to pose (maybe skate/move/dance?) beautifully". As a big fan of Alina's, I've watch her skates when she was younger and the first word that comes to mind is messy. So it's a real head scratcher. I'm very interested in who they've rejected.

They were training 3Lo before other jumps in Izhevsk so Alina had a potential with that. Back then the maximum you had to do is back load 3Lo jumps and that's what Alina did. Also back then Eteri was not so established as she was after 2018 Olympics or even after 2016. There were skaters who would prefer to go to CSKA or Mishin rather than Eteri prior to 2016. So I don't think they choose much at 2014-15. Plus Alina was in the pool with talented youth all around Russia in that time maybe not the best but she was under the radars (Sochi camps etc.).

Now they have the status to choose whatever they want.

By they way just because someone prepuberty does quads now, and all this girls are prepuberty even at they 18, doesn't say much if they are athletically more talented that the previous generation. We saw what a normal puberty does to your quads and triple axels in Alysa Liu's case.

For me Tyktamysheva for example is more athletically talented than the current quad generation. And there are a lot other in that list.

 

[nussnacker]

Does anyone know the selection process for potential skaters to join Team Tutberidze (and do Eteri and co. actively seek out talented skaters or do they all come to them)?

It's interesting and I'd love to understand how they do it and what they look for. They've made some "questionable" choices in the past, at least to me.

They have try outs several times a year, after that selected skaters are in the one-month trial period.
Some are rejected after trial period, i.e. Myravyova was not accepted as far as remember.
It’s also not about how good you are, they say if they don’t see a connection with a skater, they’re going to reject them.
Case in point, they might take someone like Veronika An, who doesn’t have 3-3 at 13(?), though she has very nice SS. Someone like Muravyova is clearly much better and developed overall at the same age, but for some reason Muravyova got a „no“, and Veronika was accepted.
Sadkova also one of those, she’s been in summer camps at CSKA for a couple of years, looks like they didn’t want to take her, but Eteri did.

 

[dhjh811]

I think Aliona should leave Plushenko as soon as possible if she wants to have ANY chance of making the Olympic team. He genuinely seems to not have a clear idea of what to do with her, and it's just been looking like Rozanov is the only one really involved with her training. It's tricky though because next season is the Olympics, so it's probably already too late to be making big changes. But it doesn't look like she'll be improving much under Plushenko.

 

[Senseo]

I think Aliona should leave Plushenko as soon as possible if she wants to have ANY chance of making the Olympic team. He genuinely seems to not have a clear idea of what to do with her, and it's just been looking like Rozanov is the only one really involved with her training. It's tricky though because next season is the Olympics, so it's probably already too late to be making big changes. But it doesn't look like she'll be improving much under Plushenko.

Hard but honest

 

[moonkat]

Hard but honest

She wasn't getting her 3A back under Eteri either.

 

[nussnacker]

And one day Kamila will be beaten by Sofia and she will be beaten by Veronika and etc.... etc.... this is how sport works. There are leaders and challengers.

Like Danny said you have to hear someone’s breathing in your back if you want to stay competitive if not your competitors will surpass you.

I get what you’re saying, but Veronika and Sofia have less than a year of age difference and will go junior and senior at the same time.
Has to be someone else, like Dvoyeglazova for example, but too hard to tell, since at this point Akatieva was and is better than any other skater at the same age as her.
3A like Aliona, SS, easy 4Ts, 4S are already there. I don’t think she‘ll stop at that point, probably will learn 4F and 4Lz too.

but there are also objective limits to what humans can do. Even Sasha has a hard time doing 5 quads, and it will be a big challenge, whoever attempts the same difficulty. You can’t keep increasing difficulty forever.

 

[readernick]

She wasn't getting her 3A back under Eteri either.

This and her stamina issues are likely the result of COVID-19 which sadly causes breathing issues for months after for some people. She isn't the only skater showing signs. Basically, regardless of who Aliona's coach was this year, she was going to struggle due to things that happened that were somewhat beyond her control. I think we will have a better understanding of whether the coaching situation will work for her or not next year. I actually am a big fan of the new music choices. They suit her style of skating well. With more practice and better stamina, I think they will be winners.

 

[Skatesocs]

Tuktamysheva is going to worlds!

 

[Skatesocs]

She wasn't getting her 3A back under Eteri either.

I don't think they necessarily mean Eteri

 

[Anni234]

This and her stamina issues are likely the result of COVID-19 which sadly causes breathing issues for months after for some people. She isn't the only skater showing signs. Basically, regardless of who Aliona's coach was this year, she was going to struggle due to things that happened that were somewhat beyond her control. I think we will have a better understanding of whether the coaching situation will work for her or not next year. I actually am a big fan of the new music choices. They suit her style of skating well. With more practice and better stamina, I think they will be winners.

I agree, given all her health issues this year I think she and her coaching team deserve some slack. Next year will be better for making conclusions. I assume she's keeping her programs so she has a good head start to get back on track.

 

[dhjh811]

She wasn't getting her 3A back under Eteri either.

I wasn't talking about Eteri. Just about any other coach in Russia would at least help her more than Plushenko is now. But with the top coaches all having star students already, it's tough.

 

[DSQ]

Tuktamysheva is going to worlds!

I’m so happy!

 

[nussnacker]

She wasn't getting her 3A back under Eteri either.

It’s not even about Eteri, it’s about Plushenko.

But yeah, she didn’t get it back in 1,5 months, after a 3 month break. But neither did Anna, Kamila, Sofia A. They got their jumps back when they were back in Moscow, after their summer camp. I do personally think Dudakov would’ve gotten it back for Aliona. Obviously we can’t know whether it would’ve happened or not, just imo, I personally have trust that Dudakov would’ve done it.

Though, it’s not just the 3A that is the problem, skating clean with 3-3 is a problem, spins and stsq are a problem.
Even without 3A, I think we can be sure Eteri wouldn’t have changed a short program 1 week before a competition, and a free skate 2 weeks before. That was not a wise decision, imo. She would’ve tried to bet on consistency and that Aliona skates as clean as possible with her maxed out content, no matter what state she was in.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

It’s not even about Eteri, it’s about Plushenko.

But yeah, she didn’t get it back in 1,5 months, after a 3 month break. But neither did Anna, Kamila, Sofia A. They got their jumps back when they were back in Moscow, after their summer camp. I do personally think Dudakov would’ve gotten it back for Aliona. Obviously we can’t know whether it would’ve happened or not, just imo, I personally have trust that Dudakov would’ve done it.

Though, it’s not just the 3A that is the problem, skating clean with 3-3 is a problem, spins and stsq are a problem.
Even without 3A, I think we can be sure Eteri wouldn’t have changed a short program 1 week before a competition, and a free skate 2 weeks before. That was not a wise decision, imo. She would’ve tried to bet on consistency and that Aliona skates as clean as possible with her maxed out content, no matter what state she was in.

The only coach I could see taking her other than Eteri would be Davydov - even with some of his other students, Aliona would be his best shot for 2022 olympic podium.

 

[alexocfp]

Ok, now we can get out our Swedish flags. Glad none of you jinxed it. We will ignore the fact that I was also posting like it was a done deal. Haha

“Tuktamysheva is set to become the first non-teenage Russian female singles skater to compete at worlds since Alena Leonova, who did so at 22 in 2013.”

What can you say, what can you freaking say?