2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[dunffvanstorn]

It strikes me how the ones who defend Adelina’s poor technique are the ones who defend Alina’s good technique and say horrible things about Evgenia’s technique.

Why for Adelina having poor technique was ok, and for Evgenia it was a crime?

Be consistent with your thoughts at least.


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[Blades of Passion]

Since when do we have to look at the take-off to determine the < or<<.

Since always. At the very least, the direction a skater is going at the start of a takeoff determines where to start counting rotation. A proper Lutz, like Yuna Kim's, has a deep outside edge curving in the opposite direction of the jump rotation during the takeoff.

 

[Skatesocs]

Since when do we have to look at the take-off to determine the < or<<.

So how do you measure angles with only one line...?

 

[Pantsu]

At the very least, the direction a skater is going at the start of a takeoff determines where to start counting rotation.

Ok, i see what you are trying to say now
That part i agree with. I thought you were talking about the moment when the skater leaves the ice
Anyways, she lands forward. I don't understand how can you pretend it was alright

 

[Tolstoj]

Not sure why posts got moved despite being in topic and not offensive. That to me felt like straight up censorship which i despise, so i'll still leave an highlight of that previous post.

- Adelina won, that's the result and you can't change it now. People outside of Russia (including people inside the sport) are generally still not okay with the way that event was conducted which felt fishy and you could see it coming, and that result specifically, which also impacted on Sotnikova's reputation. The hatred against her is undeserved, blame the judges who made those glaring mistakes, not the athlete.

- For me you could argue for and against the result, it could have gone either way, Adelina was great that night and the audience was with her, but the scores had several flaws at this point we all spotted, it's a bit pointless try to negate now. I wished the scores were closer, cause I don't see that gap between the three skaters including Carolina. Yuna was flawless and somehow still lost by 6-7 points with Sotnikova suddenly getting her same PCS and higher than Kostner.

- Sotnikova might remain the only Olympic Champion in modern history who hasn't won any other big international competition and never medalled at Worlds or GPF. Beautiful skater who got the best out of one event basically.

 

[TallyT]

Not sure why posts got moved despite being in topic and not offensive. That to me felt like straight up censorship which i despise, so i'll still leave an highlight of that previous post.

Did you quote someone else's previous post? If so, check if the original was deleted.

 

[macy]

I’m sorry, but poor takeoff should have -2 to -3 GOE according to the judging system in 2014 (+3/-3). Maybe you’re the one who’s not knowing the rules.


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"prerotation" is not a criteria for a cheated takeoff. actually, i don't think this term is anywhere to be found in any ISU rules or communications except possibly the one that is now suspended, which doesn't seem to even be available to read right now. it also seems they do not define what a poor takeoff is anywhere, either.

per the handbook, this is the ISU's description of a cheated takeoff-

A clear forward (backward for Axel type jump) take-off will be considered as a downgraded jump. The toe loop is the most commonly cheated on take-off jump. The TP may only watch the replay in regular speed to determine the cheat and downgrade on the take off (more often in combinations or sequences).

that's all i will say on the subject, as this is the Russian Ladies thread. there are other threads to discuss this (and beat a dead horse...)

 

[macy]

in other news, Zhenya is back in Canada

https://smart-flash.jp/sports/106512

 

[dunffvanstorn]

"prerotation" is not a criteria for a cheated takeoff. actually, i don't think this term is anywhere to be found in any ISU rules or communications except possibly the one that is now suspended, which doesn't seem to even be available to read right now. it also seems they do not define what a poor takeoff is anywhere, either.

per the handbook, this is the ISU's description of a cheated takeoff-

A clear forward (backward for Axel type jump) take-off will be considered as a downgraded jump. The toe loop is the most commonly cheated on take-off jump. The TP may only watch the replay in regular speed to determine the cheat and downgrade on the take off (more often in combinations or sequences).

that's all i will say on the subject, as this is the Russian Ladies thread. there are other threads to discuss this (and beat a dead horse...)

You have answered yourself. Forward takeoff, aka prerotation.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

You have answered yourself. Forward takeoff, aka prerotation.

It said clear forward takeoff, which means forward as in Axel jump! That type of jump will be called as downgraded. Other types of jump can get a GOE deduction dependable of how the whole jump looked in the arena in real time, due to not clear backward take-off. But recommendations are not saying that a jump with a not clear backward take off should be called pre-rotated jump, just the one with the clear forward takeoff. I watched a thousand of figure skating videos from Eurosport, and i've never heard their commentators used the term pre-rotation (except once, and they did not literally said 'pre-rotation' even than). It's the term some you-tubers invented for whatever personal reasons they had.

 

[dunffvanstorn]

It said clear forward takeoff, which means forward as in Axel jump! That type of jump will be called as downgraded. Other types of jump can get a GOE deduction dependable of how the whole jump looked in the arena in real time, due to not clear backward take-off. But recommendations are not saying that a jump with a not clear backward take off should be called pre-rotated jump, just the one with the clear forward takeoff. I watched a thousand of figure skating videos from Eurosport, and i've never heard their commentators used the term pre-rotation (except once, and they did not literally said 'pre-rotation' even than). It's the term some you-tubers invented for whatever personal reasons they had.

Commentators never say technical stuff, like flutz, wrong edge, prerrotation. They rarely say something is underrotated also, cause they usually don’t want to say things in disagreement with what judges say, or that’ll make the understanding hard for the general public. They also don’t want to have tea with the coaches and skaters. They just comment on very clear mistakes, like falls etc. They’re not paid to give technical classes. They’re paid to make things a little bit more clear to the general public, without being too deep.


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[Baron Vladimir]

Commentators never say technical stuff, like flutz, wrong edge, prerrotation. They rarely say something is underrotated also, cause they usually don’t want to say things in disagreement with what judges say, or that’ll make the understanding hard for the general public. They also don’t want to have tea with the coaches and skaters. They just comment on very clear mistakes, like falls etc. They’re not paid to give technical classes. They’re paid to make things a little bit more clear to the general public, without being too deep.

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British Eurosport commentators are saying a lot of technical stuff during the review. Some Russian, USA, Canadas and Japanese commentators also. But i find British Eurosport commentators more 'objective' because they don't need to root for their (or any) nation particularly. As Ted Barton, the only official ISU commentator. You can still believe more in what random youtubers have to say tho

 

[Alex65]

It said clear forward takeoff, which means forward as in Axel jump! That type of jump will be called as downgraded. Other types of jump can get a GOE deduction dependable of how the whole jump looked in the arena in real time, due to not clear backward take-off. But recommendations are not saying that a jump with a not clear backward take off should be called pre-rotated, just the one with the clear forward takeoff. I watched a thousand of figure skating videos from Eurosport, and i've never heard their commentators used the term pre-rotation (except once, and they did not literally said 'pre-rotation' even than). It's the term some you-tubers invented for whatever personal reasons they had.

Just to illustrate your message: https://youtu.be/pbdNAD4FU6Q?t=47
This 2T is such jump , which can be discussed, talking about the pre-rotation in the rules. I`m sorry for OT. I like Alysa.

 

[micks]

Skaters flew only to their home, to their relatives. Who else flew to foreign country to train there?

I think it doesn't matter for the virus.

 

[Skatesocs]

British Eurosport commentators are saying a lot of technical stuff during the review. But i find British Eurosport commentators more 'objective' because they don't need to root for their (or any) nation particularly.

Oh? So you remember they called out Satoko Miyahara's Pre-Rotation at one point then? Objectively, according to you?

So it does exist then. And maybe in the future we will get a rule that does penalize.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Oh? So you remember they called out Satoko Miyahara's Pre-Rotation at one point then? Objectively, according to you?

So it does exist then. And maybe in the future we will get a rule that does penalize.

In my previous post i was saying that of thousands and more videos i watched they used the term 'pre-rotation' only once and only for one particular skating. I just didn't want to call a skater because i don't see how is that important in these constellation of things

 

[micks]

It said clear forward takeoff, which means forward as in Axel jump!

Loop, Salchow have forward takeoff.

 

[starlight97]

in other news, Zhenya is back in Canada

https://smart-flash.jp/sports/106512

What I haven't really understood cause I don't follow her closely: Did she go to Japan with the intention of avoiding training restrictions in Canada/Russia and it ended up backfiring on her? Or was she there coincidentally just when things got serious and she was unable to get out?

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Just to illustrate your message: https://youtu.be/pbdNAD4FU6Q?t=47
This 2T is such jump , which can be discussed, talking about the pre-rotation in the rules. I`m sorry for OT. I like Alysa.

Yes, that could be it. There is a good example also with Mao, gkelly once provided, which i think was even called as a downgraded jump back then. There are some examples with euler (of half-loop) jumps as well.

 

[Skatesocs]

Loop, Salchow have forward takeoff.

Forward take off and pre rotation aren't the same.