Female Machiavelli, personally!
2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
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Female Machiavelli, personally!
No they are just extremely competitive, and Orser is one of their main rivals internationally. I don't think they like seeing their former students succeeding with other coaches and they certainly wouldn't like to help Evgenia improving, because Orser would take the full credit then as her main coach.
Many skaters have spoken on how tough it is to train there cause you get to see your competitors landing all these elements and probably set it in a way that it seems like you're the one lagging behind.
I remember a bunch of warmups from Worlds 2016 and even Pyeongchang where literally Evgenia and Alina steps on the ice and the first thing they do is their 3-3-3-3 making sure their main rivals Gracie Gold or Kaetlyn Osmon or Miyahara watch it. It's a tactic both for the athlete themselves to boost their confidence (to prove they can land the most difficult tricks) and to scare their rivals, i've nothing against it: this is competition, mindset is always extremely important, you win this way also.
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- Mar 16, 2019
I think they do these combos because they add to their personal confidence, and as many of them said "you do more in practice, so that you can show a clean program in competition". Alina posted a video of her training before OG18, and she did way more jumps than her program required, and she did it while she wasn't at competitions.
Those things help to prepare them mentally, so that they wouldn't be nervous. They know they are capable of way more, that helps to perform a clean program.
Anyways, I feel like you constantly make similar posts.
What to you is an "intimidation tactic", to others is a regular warm-up they do even when no ones looking.
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- Feb 10, 2018
Or rather it would strenghten the impression of many users , that under the stress Zhenya is returing to the old technique
I think is both, but my actual theory is that in 2016-2017 Eteri was trying to create an argument in favor of making those 3-3-3 combos valid in competition cause they progressively tried to include them in the competitive programs and did it with Medvedeva twice at Nationals and Europeans until RusFed literally told them to stop, and if you notice they started working on quads seriously right after they told them to stop.
Not that they started the day after, cause we know Trusova wanted to jump quads even with Volkov, i'm sure they tried before off-ice but maybe they'd have never tried to include them in competition this soon, literally the season after.
Like i said even if it is also intimidation i don't think there's anything wrong with it, it's a tactic, if you read and watch interviews from skaters who have been at those competitions like Worlds and Olympics they'll tell you all sorts of things like that, sometimes even other coaches watching closely your program and not even their own skater, but on the "making it look like you're lagging behind for not attempting this element" that's a coach thing. Some coaches want that internal competition to create that motivation, other tend to treat athletes separately.
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- Feb 10, 2018
Zhenya did 3-3-3 combo at Russian Nationals on her own, she said to the press literally "I've surprised my coach."
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- Jan 18, 2017
She did it only once at nationals in the supersize of her coaching team. By saying I did on purpose or something like that. Anyway it was not planed as you trying to say. After that RusFed tell her/them to stop and rightfully so.
Some times I feel people (the word in fashion nowadays) not only trying to fight windmills but actually build ones and then fight them.
Yeah personally i don't buy that, cause like i said, if you watched closely that season it was done step-by-step:
- first on instagram videos in the summer "just for fun",
- then in warmups but not the final one, cause it's just for fun right?
- then yes in the final warmup,
- at Nationals but "it wasn't planned *wink*" "surprise!"
They were about to do it again at Europeans until Rusfed told them to stop.
Again not that i'm for or against this, but it's just a thing i noticed that would have continued if RusFed didn't speak.
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- Apr 26, 2018
Just out of curiosity: did RusFed ever officially tell them to stop? I might have missed it but I‘ve never read anything about it.
But it makes sense, there’s no use doing it at Worlds because the risk of falling/getting lower GOE is way higher if you do an additional triple. And it would be supremely stupid to lose a World title due to overconfidence.
Also, I don‘t buy Zhenya took that risk twice without Eteri‘s permission. It‘s a coach‘s job to rein in skaters if they get overconfident. The fact that Zhenya did it again at Euros shows that Eteri was okay with it, maybe even encouraged it.
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- Jan 18, 2017
She did it once. Tolstoj just wanted to make an impression.
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- Apr 26, 2018
No, she did it twice. Once at Nationals in the FS (3S+3T+3T) and at Euros she wanted to do the same but had an unstable landing on the 3S+3T, so she did an additional 2A+3T instead.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/ec2017/ec2017_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
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- Jan 18, 2017
I thought we were talking about 3-3-3 and not something that is already done like 2a-3t. I think the discussion is not the ability to do 2a-3t/lo... but to do 3-3-3. Which Tolstoj think it was because Tutberitze wanted to change the rules. The next season she wanted to change the rules so that there was no more second half bonus. And this season she wanted to change the rules so that 3lutz has the same value with 3flip.
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No, that doesn't make sense at all, it is based on pure bias. One bias fabricates nonexisting story (Eteri orders her army to do things for whatever purpose), the second one is prone to believe everything that shows it in that light.
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- Apr 26, 2018
Um, what? I‘m not endorsing any conspiracy theories here and I have no idea what happened or why and I never said this was all a part of Eteri‘s master plan to do what exactly... allow triples to be repeated thrice? (3-3-3 were allowed back then too, they just didn’t (and still don’t) make much sense from a scoring perspective)
But if you are a professional athlete and your coach is telling you to stop doing something, chance is you will. Eteri and Zhenya had a good relationship at that point, Zhenya literally said in an interview that there was a full, mutual understanding between the two. So, if she tried to land a 3-3-3/additional triple again after having surprised Eteri at Nationals, it is very likely that Eteri was either okay with it or actively encouraged her to do it. Because I seriously doubt she wouldn‘t have told Evgenia if she was against it and I doubt, too, that Evgenia just wouldn‘t have listened and done it anyway. That‘s all. As for the reasons - who knows? Might have just been to show confidence.
And if not, what‘s even so bad about suggesting Eteri might have wanted to make 3-3-3 combinations/repeated triples valid/more common? Maybe she did try to advocate for a rule change with Zhenya, saw it as a natural progression to 3-3s in the second half. Then, when it wasn‘t successful, she switched to quads and we all know that this turned out well. Isn‘t it part of sports to always try and do more, to be better than the system? I wouldn‘t bet that this is what happened but I‘m seriously baffled how or why you‘d read this as an “evil Eteri“ kind of accusation?
Ultimately we can‘t know and it‘s not as important anyway. But I don‘t see any “biased non-existing“ stories here, sorry.
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- Feb 27, 2014
Yes of course Zhenya can go back anytime she wants. She practically built the place.
She also may end up coaching there someday after Eteri retires. Also Ash time heals all wounds.
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- Dec 22, 2018
So, Fluture, do you think Zhenia was lying when she said she managed to surprise her coaches? Also, when she was getting off the ice (especially seen in the repeat), the interaction between her and her coaches suggested that she decided to add that triple at the moment. She was laughing nervously and was saying "i did it especially" although I can't hear well the rest, but I have no reason not to believe Medvedeva. It is interesting to me that you, of all people, would doubt her words. Eteri has also said that when she saw that Medvedeva was going for another triple, her heart stopped, or something like this.
The topic itself seems unimportant, but I find it very interesting that you and Tolstoj are convinced in something that is contrary to what both Evgenia and Eteri have said, contrary to logic (why risk the Russian National title?) and contrary to the visuals and the body language right after the skate. And, yet, you say that it is not a conspiracy?
The topic itself seems unimportant, but I find it very interesting that you and Tolstoj are convinced in something that is contrary to what both Evgenia and Eteri have said, contrary to logic (why risk the Russian National title?) and contrary to the visuals and the body language right after the skate. And, yet, you say that it is not a conspiracy?
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