2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[micks]

So, Fluture, do you think Zhenia was lying when she said she managed to surprise her coaches?

She did 3-3-3 in programs run-through in front of her competitors and judges permanently.

Zagitova did 3-3-3-3-3 in front of her competitors and judges at OWG.

 

[Tolstoj]

Tolstoj, yes it's your opinion no one said something different. But it's an opinion that goes too far without any valid reasoning. Tutberidze doesn't control ISU, I don't think what is there to add. If what Tutberidze does is backing by the RusFed that's something to address to RusFed and is a different mater to discus. But even in that case I don't see this kind of direction. Tano's where exploiting by Tutberidze were removed, backloading was exploiting by Tutbiridze were removed, all of Tutberidze skaters do lutzs almost changed to flips. So where is her power upon ISU or where her direction was actually approved by the rules?

The problem is that you try to put all issues in one slot, when it's not like that, not all of you mentioned is because of Tutberidze skaters, some are, but you know rules are made based on competitions based on what skaters do, the direction ISU thinks is best for this sport.

It's not that the wake up tomorrow and decide that lutzes and flips are worth the same, there is always a reason behind which comes from precedents set by the skaters.

Re-read the post cause it's not about having power but more about challenging ISU rules, exposing flaws in a rule to the point ISU has to change it.

With the quads, they wanted to show that it's a system, girls at that age following that training can land quads, so ISU should allow it in the short because you'll see more skaters landing quads. Yes they cannot propose it directly to ISU, but they can keep showing it in competition and talk about it in state funded documentaries and interviews and complain about the rules, then wait until RusFed backs them up as they are doing now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7M6PSdqjf4

With the 3-3-3 i think it was no different, they tried to show it in front of audience and judges and rivals constantly to show girls can land these elements consistently and audience want to see them, and then even tried in competition.

 

[halulupu]

Lol do u guys still believe every single word what is said in press conferences or Interviews? By the way her 3-3-3 from 5 years ago are completly irrelevant. With her still not corrected flutz, losing levels on spin-or not attempting harder spins, unstable 2a no ultra C element her career is and remaims in turmoil.

 

[zounger]

The problem is that you try to put all issues in one slot, when it's not like that, not all of you mentioned is because of Tutberidze skaters, some are, but you know rules are made based on competitions based on what skaters do, the direction ISU thinks is best for this sport.

It's not that the wake up tomorrow and decide that lutzes and flips are worth the same, there is always a reason behind which comes from precedents set by the skaters.

Re-read the post cause it's not about having power but more about challenging ISU rules, exposing flaws in a rule to the point ISU has to change it.

With the quads, they wanted to show that it's a system, girls at that age following that training can land quads, so ISU should allow it in the short because you'll see more skaters landing quads. Yes they cannot propose it directly to ISU, but they can keep showing it in competition and talk about it in state funded documentaries and interviews and complain about the rules, then wait until RusFed backs them up as they are doing now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7M6PSdqjf4

With the 3-3-3 i think it was no different, they tried to show it in front of audience and judges and rivals constantly to show girls can land these elements consistently and audience want to see them, and then even tried in competition.

That might be true they show what they can do better but ISU don't care much about that. The causality is other way around.

 

[starlight97]

TBH, it wasn't a risk for her at those competitions at all, she could fall like 2 times, and she still would've won.

It's crazy to think now that this is totally true! Only 3 years ago you could be unbeaten and winning any competition with 3F-3T and 3S-3T as your hardest elements, not even a 3Lz-3T, and with the SS and programs she used to have...
And look where we are now. The advancement is insane.
And people can shout their disagreement as much as they like, facts are - basically single handedly done by Eteri.

 

[flanker]

No. Is all I can say about that. Please don't assign thoughts and feelings to others. Using your own words: Attributing wrong/nonexisting motives to people is always unreasonable.

Then why are you doing that together with Tolstoj

If you say:

Just out of curiosity: did RusFed ever officially tell them to stop? I might have missed it but I‘ve never read anything about it.

But it makes sense, there’s no use doing it at Worlds because the risk of falling/getting lower GOE is way higher if you do an additional triple. And it would be supremely stupid to lose a World title due to overconfidence.

Also, I don‘t buy Zhenya took that risk twice without Eteri‘s permission. It‘s a coach‘s job to rein in skaters if they get overconfident. The fact that Zhenya did it again at Euros shows that Eteri was okay with it, maybe even encouraged it.

...they it's precisely what I said. By this comment you already admit that Tolstoj's claims are valid, which they are not at all.

And just like we have no evidence of Eteri supporting the 3-3-3 attempts, we have no evidence that she "didn't punish her enough to prevent her from trying it again" either. Both are speculations, nothing more than that. It's just that you find one of them more logical than the other. That doesn't change the fact that it's still only speculation, however. Unless Zhenya and Eteri personally tell us (which they only did about Nationals, not Euros), none of us will ever know. But I digress, it's - as usual - arguing semantics. Let's agree to disagree, alright? Just like always.

I precisely said "The most we can presume is". I even didn't claim she did that, I'm simply saying that's closest point we can presume to anything that could be called "Eteri's permission"/"Eteri being aware". What you call a pseculation is just simple reaction to what you admitted above without any reason, just on "she wouldn't do that without "maybe Eteri's encouragement". There is just logical flaw in presuming that "hey, maybe I'm speculating, but if if you say otherwise, you are speculating as well." It's the one who expresses his assumption who should give the evidence to support his claims. In this particular case we only have statements of the kind "I did it because I wanted" and "I surprised my coach". Everything else has no solid evidence, just some people tend to make some assuptions/believe them on the basis of their opinion on Eteri (and her might over RusFed/ISU/world order ).

 

[flanker]

Lol do u guys still believe every single word what is said in press conferences or Interviews? By the way her 3-3-3 from 5 years ago are completly irrelevant. With her still not corrected flutz, losing levels on spin-or not attempting harder spins, unstable 2a no ultra C element her career is and remaims in turmoil.

Speaking of Lutz, watching the performance form Europeans 2017 now I would say there was one of Zhenya's best Lutzes in her FP.

 

[Scott512]

LOL, I never thought that adding extra triple can be that deep.

TBH, it wasn't a risk for her at those competitions at all, she could fall like 2 times, and she still would've won. That's why she went for it, imo.
I think it also fits her personality, like she's the person who likes to do things for the audience, play around, be cheeky, to me it seems to perfectly fit her character, especially after that winning streak she probably felt really confident. Other skaters from that camp don't really do something like that in competitions, although they are clearly capable too.

Exacticly!

 

[AshWagsFan]

Speaking of Lutz, watching the performance form Europeans 2017 now I would say there was one of Zhenya's best Lutzes in her FP.

Do you mean with regards to the edge or the quality of the jump otherwise? I always felt she had a bit of a flutz (it was pretty good in 2015-2016 but got worse in 2016-2017)

 

[AshWagsFan]

Lol do u guys still believe every single word what is said in press conferences or Interviews? By the way her 3-3-3 from 5 years ago are completly irrelevant. With her still not corrected flutz, losing levels on spin-or not attempting harder spins, unstable 2a no ultra C element her career is and remaims in turmoil.

This isn’t all exactly true. 5 years ago, she was unbeatable, and was as revolutionary as the 3A from this past season. Although she’s not as “competitive” as they are now, I’ve seen her make minor improvements in her skating. Her skating skills have somewhat improved (although they still need more work), she prerotates less on the lutz and flip (but the lutz is still a flutz), but she’s learned a completely new 3-3, and she now does the axel toe consistently, which shows her axel has gotten a bit stronger (she seems to have issues on it only when she’s nervous). I think she’s trying to make improvements, and she’s doing the best she can. If she’s not at the top, that’s ok. I’m glad she’s still competing, made a coaching switch to learn new things, and didn’t give up on her career!

 

[Scott512]

I‘m sure she could train there for a while. Officially, there‘s good relations between her and Sambo 70.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_213hmlCeh/?igshid=ed4cz0v9rxu (deliberately ignoring the other mess in that post, point is about Zhenya)

They could figure out different schedules so that she wouldn’t be on the ice with Tutberidze and her group. But it might be uncomfortable to train there again, be reminded of the past every day. And if she feels that way, it would be easier to just train at CSKA (like last year), especially since they have coaches who can look after her there as well.

As for Zhenya coaching at Sambo in the future... well, I‘d say that would be conflicts waiting to happen so I doubt it. All we know is that she‘s got coaching in mind for when she retires and I think she‘d be good at it. She can work well with kids and she has the additional advantage of having experienced both the Russian as well as the Canadian school of skating.

Good points. To me she calls her own shots and would be welcome anywhere. Zhenya could go back to sambo 70 and not be coached by you-know-who. At this point I just hope we have a season and we see everything unfold but everything is in doubt.

 

[LRK]

it wouldnt be the russian ladies thread without bickering about the most pointless of things...

Yeah, I just keep scrolling down to see if there is any actual news. Generally there isn't.

 

[dunffvanstorn]

Tutorial to create tea in this thread - sample phrases:


- Eteri is the best coach ever, flawless, #teamtutberidzeforprogress

- Eteri is evil, treats her students poorly, she starves her skaters until they retire at a young age

- Anna is the weakest among Anna/Aliona/Sasha

- Anna is the best among Anna/Aliona/Sasha, she has the best skating skills and the best technique

- Sasha will get poor results now that she’s moved to Pluschenko, her career is over

- Sasha will win next season, Pluschenko is the best coach ever

- Sasha may get good results next season, let’s give Pluschenko a chance

- Alina is weaker than Evgenia and has a flutz

- Alina is a million times better than Evgenia, even in artistry

- Eteri made Evgenia lose the Olympics on purpose

- Evgenia is a traitor to Russia, she went to Canada and doesn’t deserve support

- Evgenia is the best figure skater ever, she’s just underscored now that she left Eteri

- Aliona has the best artistry among Aliona/Anna/Sasha

- Aliona is impolite, the rudest among Aliona/Anna/Sasha

- Sasha is the best among Sasha/Anna/Aliona, jumps are more important than skating skills and artistry

- Figure skating has to progress, and only jumps will do that

- Skating skills are overrated

- Pre-rotation doesn’t exist

- Eteri teaches pre-rotation to her students so that they can cheat jumps

- Daniil is the best choreographer

- Daniil is the worst choreographer

- Anna’s quad lutz is the best in the field, even better than Yuzuru’s, Boyang’s and Kolyada’s

- There’s no such thing as poor technique, people have to create new technique so that they can add revolutions to jumps


Use it wisely.

 

[macy]

^ you forgot "Anna prerotates almost a full turn and has full blade takeoff, she doesn't have a real quad"

 

[brakes]

Wow, Alina's fanbase is super strong - Eteri is being berated for inviting to watch ISU Awards ceremony.
Poor PR-management by ISU - should've recognized how absence of mega popular skater among nominees may hurt the event... :disapp:

 

[flanker]

Wow, Alina's fanbase is super strong - Eteri is being berated for inviting to watch ISU Awards ceremony.
Poor PR-management by ISU - should've recognized how absence of mega popular skater among nominees may hurt the event... :disapp:

To be honest in this case I would be glad if Eteri would ignore that completely. I can imagine why ISU made her to invite, controversy attracts attention, and Eteri in her postition probably can't dare to send them where they belong, but still I would like to hear how she tell them something from the heart about how they treat her skaters (Alina and Anna).

 

[dhjh811]

Do you mean with regards to the edge or the quality of the jump otherwise? I always felt she had a bit of a flutz (it was pretty good in 2015-2016 but got worse in 2016-2017)

They have to be talking about the flow and landing of the jump and not the edge because Zhenya has always had a flutz with a deep inside edge. She's never jumped a true triple lutz

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Zhenya will train with Buyanova at CSKA until the Canadian borders open.
"Orser remains her main coach, there is no talk of any transition. It has not even been discussed and is not being discussed" Buyanova said.
https://tass.ru/sport/8877907/amp?__twitter_impression=true

 

[dunffvanstorn]

^ you forgot "Anna prerotates almost a full turn and has full blade takeoff, she doesn't have a real quad"

Yess, I totally forgot that one [emoji23]

 

[Fried]

^ you forgot "Anna prerotates almost a full turn and has full blade takeoff, she doesn't have a real quad"

Why should there be discussions in this regard?