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- Jun 21, 2003
lopsilceci said:
To me, anything can happen. All the old-timers (Trusova, Shcherbakova, Kostornaia) could suddenly regress in technical abilities, giving the "We got next" gereration a clear field -- or not.
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2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
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To me, anything can happen. All the old-timers (Trusova, Shcherbakova, Kostornaia) could suddenly regress in technical abilities, giving the "We got next" gereration a clear field -- or not.
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- Jun 21, 2003
I am very interested in this! Can you supply more details? Exactly how many years of planning went into this scheme? Who are the RusFed members who knew in advance and supported the transfer of talent, and what do they get out of it. (Were they bribed?) What evidence exists about all this?
Inquiring minds want to know. :yes:
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- Mar 3, 2014
I think if an elite athlete wants to maximize exposure, income, and at the same time produce results, good for them. After all, I have heard what a wonderful thing it is to cram all your senior skating into a few years and then go off to other ventures. I don’t agree with that philosophy, but if that’s the case, it shows strength of character, intelligence, and all those other good traits to maximize your other opportunities while you can:agree:
Fifty years ago the Supreme Court of the US abolished a professional team’s legal attempt to keep an athlete tied to them forever just because they “raised them up” in a farm team(Flood v. Kuhn All types of arguments about “loyalty” and “investment” were presented, and were rejected. (Needless to say the decision was based on a particular US law, and an exemption to that law, but the “emotional” arguments rested on those feelings).
Likewise, for me, (and maybe many Americans who accept athletes changing teams and coaches as a fact of life. At least I think we do, 50 years later) those arguments simply are not applicable to an athlete who simply wants to change coaches, or teams. Will it work? Who knows. But fans of the athlete and the skater will of course wish them well and hope it does
Fifty years ago the Supreme Court of the US abolished a professional team’s legal attempt to keep an athlete tied to them forever just because they “raised them up” in a farm team(Flood v. Kuhn All types of arguments about “loyalty” and “investment” were presented, and were rejected. (Needless to say the decision was based on a particular US law, and an exemption to that law, but the “emotional” arguments rested on those feelings).
Likewise, for me, (and maybe many Americans who accept athletes changing teams and coaches as a fact of life. At least I think we do, 50 years later) those arguments simply are not applicable to an athlete who simply wants to change coaches, or teams. Will it work? Who knows. But fans of the athlete and the skater will of course wish them well and hope it does
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- Feb 27, 2014
I love this comment and agree with it one trillion percent! It's like the Russian Federation is pissed at EG for her team carrying this sport in Russia for the last 10 years. It's like they will do anything to stop Eteri and all the praise she gets.
TT almost assuredly would have won the ladies World Championship this year and any one of the three or four 4 of the TT girls would have been favorite to win in Beijing and even sweep the podium. Now all of that is up in the air and if Sasha and aliona are not where they were last season then that really opens the door for others to sneak in there from other countries. I've thought one of those Russian girls would have won the next Olympic title in Beijing for sure now I'm not so sure. Hoping this controversial transfer for Sasha and aliona can somehow help them and make them even better even as great as they already are. When skaters leave EG their scores always get worse but I think these two will break that trnd because they're still young and improving. This is an unbelievable opportunity for coach Plushenko to have two Olympic gold medal caliber skaters coming to his Academy. He and his Academy really need to take advantage of this shall I say golden opportunity.
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- Jun 21, 2003
A fascinating case for anyone interested in U.S. laws governing sports contracts. Although Kurt Flood did not benefit personally, this case and its aftermath opened the legal door that allowed professional athletes to cash in on their sports popularity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_v._Kuhn
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- Mar 16, 2019
I think if an elite athlete wants to maximize exposure, income, and at the same time produce results, good for them. After all, I have heard what a wonderful thing it is to cram all your senior skating into a few years and then go off to other ventures. I don’t agree with that philosophy, but if that’s the case, it shows strength of character, intelligence, and all those other good traits to maximize your other opportunities while you can:agree:
Fifty years ago the Supreme Court of the US abolished a professional team’s legal attempt to keep an athlete tied to them forever just because they “raised them up” in a farm team(Flood v. Kuhn All types of arguments about “loyalty” and “investment” were presented, and were rejected. (Needless to say the decision was based on a particular US law, and an exemption to that law, but the “emotional” arguments rested on those feelings).
Likewise, for me, (and maybe many Americans who accept athletes changing teams and coaches as a fact of life. At least I think we do, 50 years later) those arguments simply are not applicable to an athlete who simply wants to change coaches, or teams. Will it work? Who knows. But fans of the athlete and the skater will of course wish them well and hope it does
I think many here agree with you.
If Aliona has her eyes set on university in 2 years time, and taking into account Olympics might not happen at all or be postponed, it’s a completely rational choice to make sure she earns as much as possible in the next two years, so that she could attend a university and fund her studies in case she studies somewhere abroad.
IF that’s indeed her motivation, we don’t know that for sure, but it does sound believable and makes complete sense.
I haven’t read anyone saying she should be blocked/ not allowed to be tranferred, so my pal Fried should chip in here and tell you you’re fighting imaginary arguments that weren’t made by anyone here
From my perspective, people who wished Aliona stayed aren’t thinking about chaining her down against her will, but thinking she might be making a mistake and that she should give it another thought. It’s not coming from the point of view of „ownership“, but rather just an opinion and an external point of view of people not directly involved in the situation.
The talk that athletes are sometimes poached by other coaches isn’t new, it has been there for a long time, but it has nothing to do with „ownership“, it’s just about the fact that some coaches seem to be proactive and make big promises, and that doesn’t seem like an ethical approach in this sport no matter the country. Whether or not it took place with Plushenko we don’t know for sure, I am personally more inclined to believe that it did, because it was mentioned last year too, but until someone speaks out, we‘ll never know, and it doesn’t really matter in this case. All that matters is that the girls are happy with their situation.
only life will tell if it’s a good decision, it’s Aliona’s choice, I certainly hope it’s a good one for all parties, and that Aliona will thrive in her new environment and gets what she truly desires, no matter what that is.
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But did RusFed have to put the corona virus into the world right away? There would also have been other options.
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- Feb 10, 2018
But did RusFed have to put the corona virus into the world right away? There would also have been other options.
Having such opportunity someone could have said "carpe Eteri"
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- Jan 14, 2020
New hairstyle, new happiness!
If someone cuts their hair, it is a sign that they are entering a new phase of life. Don't one say that?
Please click on the profile picture: https://www.instagram.com/daniil_gleikhengauz/?hl=de
If someone cuts their hair, it is a sign that they are entering a new phase of life. Don't one say that?
Please click on the profile picture: https://www.instagram.com/daniil_gleikhengauz/?hl=de
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- Jun 21, 2003
Will someone please explain this idea to me. Why in the world would the Russian Federation be angry at Eteri Tutberidze for leading Russian ladies' figure skating to world-wide greatness? Does this make any sense at all?
Can anyone please offer any possible reason why the Russian Skating federation would want to stop a Russian skating coach from being praised by admirers and skating fans? That would be like the Jamaican Track and Field Association badmouthing Usain Bolt for being a successful runner and for bringing international recognition and glory to Jamaican Track and Field. None of this makes any sense whatsoever, to me.
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- Feb 10, 2018
Give jealousy or anger any reason? Mostly not, yet they are here with us for the whole history of the organized society. Not always people behave according to "win-win" strategy, you shouldn't be surprised how many people actually rather prefer "lose-lose" if they can prevent someone they don't like to win. That shouldn't be surprising for people with some life experience. I can't say this is surely happening, but definitely that's not rare.
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- Mar 16, 2019
A theory (if Eteri is indeed not liked by Rusfed) can be due to sort of long story of Soviet system remaining in place in modern post-soviet countries.
A system that wasn’t exactly good to those who didn’t want to “play by their rules”.
Tarasova will tell you herself, that despite being a successful hockey coach, her father was forced out and constantly had to experience external obstacles on his way as a coach, because he didn’t fit into the initial system and wasn’t liked by higher ups in Soviet hockey world.
It’s been a recurring theme for many things in post-Soviet world, where you have people in a close tight partnership on the top, not willing to have any outsiders who don’t want to play by their rules.
I.e. Tutberidze takes all 3 spots on the world team, takes all the funding and increases her presence, hence people who aren’t really her fans, I.e. possibly Tarasova (hypothetical example!) and other coaches from other influential schools wanting to disrupt this dominance and get some funding back.
It’s just a theory though
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Thank you for the explanation; that makes sense and I understand now. I do agree that until one of the girls says why they left, it is all speculation and assumptions. Of course that's what we figure skating fans do
One point which now seems clearer to me now from your post is the use of the word "poaching". In US skating, "poaching" is a coach directly going to a skater in another camp and asking them if they want to move, without being asked first by the skater. So for example, when Mariah Bell moved to Raf, Raf was very insistent that she made the first move, so as to prevent claims of "poaching".
In the case of Sasha and certainly Alena, it appears that the skaters (and I include parents of minor children as the skaters) approached Plushenko first. Plushenko therefore did not "poach" in the way that word is used in American English skating circles.
Now did he say I can make you an even bigger star? Did he make any other kinds of promises? I don't know, but if he did, that's just talking big.
And in the words of old time baseball pitcher Dizzy Dean, it ain't bragging if you can do it. We will see:think:
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- Dec 18, 2014
Because she and her skaters are getting majority of the states funding. It's always about the money
Because up to 2014 home Olympics, there was a clear power distribution in Russian senior single skating: Buyanova in Moscow's CSKA (Sotnikova) and Mishin in St. Petersburg (Tuktamysheva). Power=money=praise=respect=authority=publicity=fan base, and in the years before Sochi, there was huge influx of federal money into the sport, that was expected to bring medals and glory to the state.
'Unfortunately', since 2011/12 some unknown coach started to mess up that clear picture with early international successes of Shelepen/Lipnitskaya. Coach, that relatively recently came back from US, who was not groomed by the 'fur elders', so not obligued to be thankful, thus dependent from them. We can't even imagine (even more recap) all that fur-mafia mutual betrayals, denunciations, digging holes, deals, wars, truces and destroying each other. Once a year or two, some old coach's interview shows up with veiled hints on 'noble' acts of all those icons like Mishin and Tarasova and they're hair-raising.
Anyway, Tutberidze owned nothing to them, as all she achieved after coming back to Russia she grinded by her own hard work in most unconfortable circumstances with no support of federation big fishes. That makes her INDEPENDENT and it scares the sh... out of them. After decades of bulldoging under the federal funding carpet, they have leverage on every single one of themselves, they can control each other, but not her and it makes her dangerous and pisses them off beyond sufferance.
I hope I'm wrong, but I see only two ways for her: either she prevail and dominate like Viner, or be annihilated (read: set aside or emigrate).
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- Apr 2, 2016
Wow! Thank you for this explanation! That's far the most rational one I've read so far! Ever since the news was broken, I've been trying to understand what the hell is going on, because Aliona's decision is absolutely inexplicable to me. The whole story simply doesn't add up in any way. That's why I think there must be something bigger and very dark behind it...
Oh, I think that's my very first post here, I've been lurking for a while of course, so hello everyone!
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- Mar 17, 2018
"No support" ? For Eteri and Sambo? How then Adelina was excluded from Sochi Team event?
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- Feb 10, 2018
Wow! Thank you for this explanation! That's far the most rational one I've read so far! Ever since the news was broken, I've been trying to understand what the hell is going on, because Aliona's decision is absolutely inexplicable to me. The whole story simply doesn't add up in any way. That's why I think there must be something bigger and very dark behind it...
Oh, I think that's my very first post here, I've been lurking for a while of course, so hello everyone!
Hello, patee, welcome to our threrapeutic group
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