2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 186 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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Jontor said:
Speaking of 3F+3Lo's. I wish Shcherbakova would go back to that combination. She used to be super solid on those. Her 3Lz+3Lo combo's though have a tendency to end in a stand still, and she often get URs on them. Switching back to 3F+3Lo wouldn't mean any point loss, she can do 3Lz+Eul+3S to even things out.
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I've noticed that too, and prefer the flip-loop combo too. But her Eul-3S is not strong at all. She might not have enough momentum to do it in the last half with a lutz, especially if her lutz is at a standstill. Her sal is just not a good jump for her. Mostly UR, and so tiny with no flow coming out. I think that's why she's doing her layout as it is, because she gets enough flow out of her 3flip to eke out the combo.
 
LiamForeman said:
I've noticed that too, and prefer the flip-loop combo too. But her Eul-3S is not strong at all. She might not have enough momentum to do it in the last half with a lutz, especially if her lutz is at a standstill. Her sal is just not a good jump for her. Mostly UR, and so tiny with no flow coming out. I think that's why she's doing her layout as it is, because she gets enough flow out of her 3flip to eke out the combo.
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Yes, her flip jump has much more flow. I used to love Shcherbakova's 3F-3Lo's. She had a wonderful flow on the loop as well. 3Lz-3Lo though is such a hard combination to do, and I think the only ones who mastered it was Zagitova (that Olympic save is iconic) and Trusova in younger days. Lots of girls have tried it, but later dropped it because it is not worth the risk of getting that UR call that usually comes along as well. What I never will understand though is why not Loop combos are worth more? They are so frikkin hard to do, and you get like 1 more point for doing it instead of a Toeloop. But I guess that's another discussion...
 
LiamForeman said:
I've noticed that too, and prefer the flip-loop combo too. But her Eul-3S is not strong at all. She might not have enough momentum to do it in the last half with a lutz, especially if her lutz is at a standstill. Her sal is just not a good jump for her. Mostly UR, and so tiny with no flow coming out. I think that's why she's doing her layout as it is, because she gets enough flow out of her 3flip to eke out the combo.
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Yes her Salchow's always been a major weakness of hers and when she introduced it I honestly was surprised she was able to do a -Eu-3S combo at all.

She does it because it gives the most points for the layout, otherwise she'd need to do a 3-2-2 combo or some such and that'd be less valuable.
brakes said:
Everybody does. :agree:

She's beautiful, passionate skater, she's fun, talkative and cordial girl outside the rink, etc.. There is literally nothing not to like about Stasya, except devastating influence of her performances on her fans' nerves. :drama:
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Well she as a person might be amazing but it's not great how much she got favored over other significantly more deserving girls, leading to their careers becoming derailed, the most obvious example being Anastasia Gubanova. And some people just aren't very fond of the unfairly privileged for one reason or another.

No, "everyone" doesn't like her and in fact in most of the skating videos for her, they'll have more dislikes than likes. Especially in Russia, for example the Russian domestic fskate ru videos would nearly always end up with mass downvotes for her.
 
Jontor said:
Speaking of 3F+3Lo's. I wish Shcherbakova would go back to that combination. She used to be super solid on those. Her 3Lz+3Lo combo's though have a tendency to end in a stand still, and she often get URs on them. Switching back to 3F+3Lo wouldn't mean any point loss, she can do 3Lz+Eul+3S to even things out.
Click to expand...

She did both the 3lz+3lo and 3lz+eu+3S in the 2018-2019 season in the bonus of the FS, I think it's the additional quads that she's doing, by the time she gets to the bonus section she's able to squeeze those 3-3's still but she loses the flow out.
 
LiamForeman said:
I've noticed that too, and prefer the flip-loop combo too. But her Eul-3S is not strong at all. She might not have enough momentum to do it in the last half with a lutz, especially if her lutz is at a standstill. Her sal is just not a good jump for her. Mostly UR, and so tiny with no flow coming out. I think that's why she's doing her layout as it is, because she gets enough flow out of her 3flip to eke out the combo.
Click to expand...

I believe it was said that Anna started to have problems with Salchow (and also Toeloop) after the injury in 2017, that's also why she started to learn 4Lz and 4F and not the "easier" 4S or 4T.
 
LiamForeman said:
I've noticed that too, and prefer the flip-loop combo too. But her Eul-3S is not strong at all. She might not have enough momentum to do it in the last half with a lutz, especially if her lutz is at a standstill. Her sal is just not a good jump for her. Mostly UR, and so tiny with no flow coming out. I think that's why she's doing her layout as it is, because she gets enough flow out of her 3flip to eke out the combo.
Click to expand...

The salchow has always been Anna's worst jump for as long as I can remember. It's the jump with the lowest height, distance, and speed coming out. Even when she was doing single 3S there was always much more hesitation going into it than her other jumps, and you can tell she struggles with it more.
 
Shayuki said:
Yes her Salchow's always been a major weakness of hers and when she introduced it I honestly was surprised she was able to do a -Eu-3S combo at all.

She does it because it gives the most points for the layout, otherwise she'd need to do a 3-2-2 combo or some such and that'd be less valuable.
Well she as a person might be amazing but it's not great how much she got favored over other significantly more deserving girls, leading to their careers becoming derailed, the most obvious example being Anastasia Gubanova. And some people just aren't very fond of the unfairly privileged for one reason or another.

No, "everyone" doesn't like her and in fact in most of the skating videos for her, they'll have more dislikes than likes. Especially in Russia, for example the Russian domestic fskate ru videos would nearly always end up with mass downvotes for her.
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Gubanova had her chances. in the current girl/ladies russian field you dont get second chances easily. its hard. even at her best she was never as good as valieva now as a prepuberty girl. so please this endless whining grows old. her only chance to become relevant again is to get a some ultra c elements, which is fairly unreralistic at her age. if she gets some russian cup assignemts she should be more than lucky. she might deserve more but it will not happen.
 
halulupu said:
Gubanova had her chances. in the current girl/ladies russian field you dont get second chances easily. its hard. even at her best she was never as good as valieva now as a prepuberty girl. so please this endless whining grows old. her only chance to become relevant again is to get a some ultra c elements, which is fairly unreralistic at her age. if she gets some russian cup assignemts she should be more than lucky. she might deserve more but it will not happen.
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I agree that Gubanova had her chances, and I also can’t see why she should be getting anything more than she deserves. However, I wouldn’t say that getting ultra C elements is unrealistic at her age. Nagasu was over 20 when she got her 3A and Tuktamysheva got her quad only this year. Why do you assume that it is impossible to get it at older age? No one argues that it is harder than getting it pre-puberty, but it is definitely not impossible.
 
halulupu said:
Gubanova had her chances. in the current girl/ladies russian field you dont get second chances easily. its hard. even at her best she was never as good as valieva now as a prepuberty girl. so please this endless whining grows old. her only chance to become relevant again is to get a some ultra c elements, which is fairly unreralistic at her age. if she gets some russian cup assignemts she should be more than lucky. she might deserve more but it will not happen.
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Yeah, you don't get second chances easily, unless you're Stanislava Konstantinova in which case you get far more than just two chances. Pretty simple when put in context.

In that competition in question, Gubanova had some correct if harsh calls and quite low PCS, while Konstantinova's PCS was really high in addition to several sketchy jumps being judged as clean with massive GOEs. Perhaps you think that's OK, some think it's not.
 
All competitions in Saint-Petersburg are cancelled until Jan 1st.
Also juniors will be allowed to take part in 2 competitions max this season (I assume until JrNats) per government regulations. Probably to limit their exposure to the virus.

+ Sofia Samodelkina is doing R&J too, but using a piece from a musical(?)
https://www.instagram.com/p/CD688VvIUCS/
 
halulupu said:
Gubanova had her chances. in the current girl/ladies russian field you dont get second chances easily. its hard. even at her best she was never as good as valieva now as a prepuberty girl. so please this endless whining grows old. her only chance to become relevant again is to get a some ultra c elements, which is fairly unreralistic at her age. if she gets some russian cup assignemts she should be more than lucky. she might deserve more but it will not happen.
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Your comments surprise me knowing you were or are a fan of her for years. As for the whining this happens ever few months in here for maybe a day. LOL! Not exactly earth shattering.

Actually Nastya never had her best chances and that's the problem. Without question and it's not debatable there were multiple times she deserved opportunities and did not get them. Her Romeo and Juliet program when she was 13 or 14 was wonderful the best in recent years and she got stiffed out of the Junior worlds which was ridiculous especially when you consider how superbly she skated in the junior Grand Prix season. And when she did have in SB last season she didn't get a Grand Prix or even a stinking Challenger so she could have an SB for this season. No doubt she's had her difficulties failures disappointments and probably not the easiest girl to work with. She is only human after all. I can see her negatives as well as her positives. But let's see what she can do with her new coach he seems to be on the upswing in his career maybe he can pull some magic out of a hat for Nastya and Little Liza who were both super promising just three or four years ago. Maybe they should change federation's. But I hope they don't give up. if they do I would never blame them. Not everyone can be like Polina and Masha and go off to University full-time and put figure skating on the shelf forever.
Shayuki said:
Yeah, you don't get second chances easily, unless you're Stanislava Konstantinova in which case you get far more than just two chances. Pretty simple when put in context.

In that competition in question, Gubanova had some correct if harsh calls and quite low PCS, while Konstantinova's PCS was really high in addition to several sketchy jumps being judged as clean with massive GOEs. Perhaps you think that's OK, some think it's not.
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Very fair points.

She didn't get first chances or second chances some of the times. Nastya also did not deliver on certain occasions like she needed to. Even last year in her final year of puberty and that was quite a battle for her she still had that artistry that is very rare in ladies figure skating these days. I keep hoping she's through puberty and will get more chances to at least do some Challengers but with the pandemic her career and Little Liza's (Nugumanova) careers which were so promising just a few years years are on life support.

I also am concerned about these two and others whose careers have not panned out about how they're handling depression and things especially since Katia Alexandrovskaya took her own life a few weeks ago. That should be a wake-up call for all sports federations that they have the proper people in place to consult where is athletes instead of coaches or parents who may be putting a lot of pressure on the athletes. I was actually a promising baseball player in high school and when I started college my goal at the very least was to be a minor league baseball player like my maternal grandfather was. But I broke my leg my freshman season and was never quite the same athletically after that and I didn't even make the baseball team my sophomore year in college. That hurt worse than my broken leg did. Being done with baseball by 20 years old depressed me and that carried over to my grades. Fortunately my parents and college counselors helped get me through that and after a couple years I got back to normal. But there's a lot of things these kids whose careers don't pan out go through because I went through some of them on a lower level then these figure skaters are going through.
After what Katia went through recently it's obvious all sports federations need to get the proper people in place to maybe help some people like Katia in the future. It's not all about wins and losses and gold medals and last place. Failed careers or careers that don't take off like mine with baseball can lead to some major issues.

Nastya in the few events she had last year was pretty solid and was good in the Russian Cup Final in February and I would hope that would lead to something this year at least Challengers and other opportunities but the pandemic has changed a lot of things and there's going to be less opportunities to show their talents this year for nasty of then she's probably ever had. Sad.

Gubanova did that wonderful Romeo and Juliet free skate when she was 13 or 14. I would love to see her bring it back at 18 or 19. I also can't wait to see Sashas R and J. It could be mind-blowing good and spectacular especially between 3 and 5 quads and it and maybe a triple axel. I can't wait to see Plushenko try to keep Sasha's great athleticism and spectacular skating and combine that with better artistry musicality and feel for the music. If Sasha pulls this off everyone else will be skating for silver.
 
hanca said:
I agree that Gubanova had her chances, and I also can’t see why she should be getting anything more than she deserves. However, I wouldn’t say that getting ultra C elements is unrealistic at her age. Nagasu was over 20 when she got her 3A and Tuktamysheva got her quad only this year. Why do you assume that it is impossible to get it at older age? No one argues that it is harder than getting it pre-puberty, but it is definitely not impossible.
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If Liza lands triple axels and a quad and gets scored lower than those who have neither it will be a huge issue. The St. Petersburg girls have gotten lowballed for years and it needs to stop. Im a little surprised as a former world champion she has not been more outspoken about it. Or her legendary coach.
 
I just saw an Instagram video of this adorable little girl named Veronika Zhilina (sp?) holding a long spiral. Yaaaaayyyy!!!!!!😁👍✨😄😊 Good job girl! That was beautiful, mostly because she held it for quite a while and I could “see a picture”, she created a moment. Imagine that move on the crescendo of, say, Nessa Dorma.
No idea who she is or who her coach is.
 
Shayuki said:
Yeah, you don't get second chances easily, unless you're Stanislava Konstantinova in which case you get far more than just two chances. Pretty simple when put in context.

In that competition in question, Gubanova had some correct if harsh calls and quite low PCS, while Konstantinova's PCS was really high in addition to several sketchy jumps being judged as clean with massive GOEs. Perhaps you think that's OK, some think it's not.
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While I also think she was judged harshly, and should have been sent to JWs, I don't think it would've change the course of her career significantly.

Since Alina went clean, she wouldn't have been able to beat her (per JGPF results). Marin was also perfect in that competition, and it's questionable whether Anastasia would've been able to beat her, even if clean, and she hadn't had a clean competition. Maybe she would've been able to get 3rd, but she wasn't eligible for the Olympics the following season, and I doubt she would've been able to beat Sotskova for a spot even if she had been.

Then the next season, she was up against Sasha/Alena/Anastasia T. But it didn't matter because she didn't make it to JGPF and that's on her; I believe she came 4th in her first assignment and wasn't given another, which is expected as many others who came second didn't get another. Again, she did better at nationals and was edged out of a JW spot unfairly imo, but she wouldn't have been able to beat Sasha/Alena at JWs.

Overall, apart from some GP assignments in seniors, I don't think her career would've been that different. By then, her jumps became unstable and she was already behind many of the senior Russian ladies. It's too bad because that JGPF Romeo and Juliet program is one that I go back and watch quite often, but that is just 1 magical skate.
 
Scott512 said:
If Liza lands triple axels and a quad and gets scored lower than those who have neither it will be a huge issue. The St. Petersburg girls have gotten lowballed for years and it needs to stop. Im a little surprised as a former world champion she has not been more outspoken about it. Or her legendary coach.
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Disagree that we can blanket make the statement that if Tuktamysheva lands quads and triple axels and scores lower than some without that it will be a problem; if Zagitova motivation to compete again she could certainly beat her. Tuktamysheva and Mishin's problem is that they seemingly have little belief in choreography/transitions; as lovely as Tuktamysheva's jumping technique can be her movements into and out of the jumps are non-existent which makes her jumps score low, sure she gets the BV but very little GOE. Additionally her layouts are weak, yes she does the triple axel but her layouts outside of those triple axels are low-scoring, and at Nationals when she added the quad toe, she replaced her highest scoring jumping pass- the triple axel combination; on the other side you had Shcherbakova when she added a quad flip and she used it to replace 1 of her lowest scoring jumps a double axel.

SP: Not only does she do the lowest scoring 3+3 combination it's front-loaded, the top 3 ladies all back-loaded their combinations. Hopefully she at least keeps the combination from Nationals going forward where it's a 3F+3T and adds 1 point to her BV over what she did during the GP. FS: While she did the 2 triple axels all season (except for Nationals) she still does 4 double jumps, Kostornaia who has similar arsenal in the ultra-difficult jumps only does 2 double jumps.
 
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