Your general statement is correct. However, the context of discussions here is far away from the ugly accusations you quoted, so I would say your statement is somehow misleading.
2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
- Thread starter flanker
- Start date
- Status
Your general statement is correct. However, the context of discussions here is far away from the ugly accusations you quoted, so I would say your statement is somehow misleading.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2019
That's new to me.
How people can come out with such "theories" :disapp: is a far behind my worst fantasy horizon
But I don't think i've ever argued otherwise there, and that's the big take from this post, Anti-Eteri definitely exists, never said otherwise.
However Russia's main sentiment seems louder the other way and it goes down to messaging promoted by the media also: Eteri hero, traitors who dare to leave or disagree which is unfortunate. Ultimately this should be treated more professionally even from the coaches themselves and state media.
Athletes are allowed to leave, change coaches, move abroad at any point, continue skating as much as they want. No coach, journalist, fan should force these decisions.
Deal with it.
At least you now admit your are an Eteri fan, it didn't take that long from last week, where you wrote calling someone a fan is basically a personal attack
Again, it's (not even) funny to be constantly blamed for being "fanatical ET fan" and all that stuff, while being forced to witness how my (and not only my) words are blatantly twisted, words and intentions I didn't say are being put into my mouth and yet it is somehow claimed I'm "promoting aggression here".
Even though worth remembering there that:
A) i didn't direct quote you there (but you took it as personal attack anyway)
B) I personally don't think being a fan of something is an insult
I don't think i've praised Alyona's new short (it's an okay program, i'd agree nothing particularly new but better for a short than a long), while i definitely praised the idea of a new free choreographed by Shae-Lynn Bourne, cause yes i want to see different perspectives and more sophisticated programs for these skaters.
As for the actual performances, like i previously stated, both Kostornaya and Shcherbakova made mistakes, however Alyona's jumps are fully rotated while some of Anna's jumps were definitely not and you know better than me that an underrotated with a wrong edge jump is more costly (both on bv and GOE) than a fully rotated jump on a lean. (only affects GOE)
I've already explained why i called out Valieva's lack of facial expressions while praised Trusova improvements, go back and read that.
So Sorry to point out that once again you're referring to the wrong person.
Example here: i stated Evgenia's decision to skate while injured was not the smartest decision.
And that's something i've always believed in Figure Skating, the moment you show up at competitions, you're judged the same way as the others, regardless if you are injured or not. There is no "oh you're so brave" bonus mark.
If you are injured, you shouldn't compete.
Not 100% the same, but they tend to recycle actual skating moves, poses, music and even costume, to the point they all end up looking very similar, or sometimes almost the same.
Evgenia Medvedeva's skid spiral
Anna Shcherbakova's new skid spiral
Down to choreography even like
Kamila Valieva's opening pose from last season free skate
Anna Shcherbakova's opening pose from this season free skate
Costumes
Evgenia Medvedeva's red tutù costume
Alina Zagitova's red tutù costume
Even music choices, like don't you remember Medvedeva's 2015-16 free skate was originally intended to be Lipnitskaya's free skate?
And isn't this season Shcherbakova's music for the free skate originally proposed to Kostornaya last season?
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2019
Erm, that was the whole point of Sasha going to Plush... She wanted to jump more quads and didn't like that the coaches limited her in this aspect.
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2016
I’m trying to find out if the program that Alyona just ditched was a new Pluschenko program that she got in August. And if she got rid of it because it wasn’t ready yet or she just didn’t like it.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2020
There was such a nice new English term for this kind of argument. Someone here used it the other day. How was it again? No matter.
In any case, it would be better to use current examples of this double standard and none from the last decade.
"Skater ST (coached by Plushenko) jumps a quad shortly after the quarantine period." - "How can Plushenko be so irresponsible?"
"Skater AS (not coached by Plushenko) jumps a triple combination shortly after the quarantine period." - "The skater is so fantastic."
Exactly this case happened here recently.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2012
https://www.sport-express.ru/figure...m-otkrytie-sezona-v-figurnom-katanii-1710366/
Who won the test skates in Moscow? Trusov, Valiev or Shcherbakova?
We are trying to evaluate the past starts - carefully, a lot of numbers. And they are all unofficial....
Who won the test skates in Moscow? Trusov, Valiev or Shcherbakova?
We are trying to evaluate the past starts - carefully, a lot of numbers. And they are all unofficial....
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2011
that's because this is the same dress, and it was probably borrowed for financial reasons. using someone else's dress is not uncommon, especially in lower levels (she was a junior here)
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2019
That’s the point some people thought was about her change. She never said that herself.
As she said in her interview “I was finally able to skate to slow music”.
She also said in an interview during quarantine in April that she didn’t learn the quad loop because Dudakov and Rozanov were busy taking the juniors to competition.
She didn’t say it, but I assume she probably also felt neglected having to skate next to Aliona, Shcherbakova and Valieva, all considered “artistic” skaters, while having terrible programs and no focus on artistry.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2020
That's exactly what she said.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2018
This is the first time you admit they even exist. Saying "deal with it" you just show you do not know what are you arguing against, me or the whole population. It's not me who ever said anything like that, that nobody is allowed to leave or change coaches, so I hardly have anything to deal with. Or you once again put words into my mouth I never said?
What is the main course in Russia? IMO drama, without taking a side. Newspapers like it, they gladly ask sugestive questions to provoke particular answers. There are many fans pro Eteri, many fans anti Eteri, both in Russia and in the world and those anti Eteri fans very often attack her skaters, not just their skating, but them as people. As for the big names, there are very loud voices against Eteri and her team, there were such all the time. TAT posted a picture with Eteri, while month ago was her fatal enemy and made many nasty comments about Alina since the olympics. To her "credit" I can add she made nasty comments about many skaters, but in Alina's case it was obviously from a position of a diappointed fan. There were others, Zhulin, Kostomarov, Rodnina (and Rodina), who made nasty comments about Eteri, Alina or other of her skaters. Majority? Who decides who has the majority, at least when it comes to negative comments from the other side? Eteri, for instance, never ever commented other skaters program or performance negatively, domestically or internationally, while other coaches make such comments about her team's work.
At least you now admit your are an Eteri fan, it didn't take that long from last week, where you wrote calling someone a fan is basically a personal attack
Fan vs. fanatical, find five differences.
That's just one of the examples when you took some words and twisted them into different interpretation, that doesn't require "direct quote", unless you explain who exactly you have in mind. It was already discussed here.
That's well, not true, by repeating wrong claim you don't make it right. I've put the evidence Anna's edge was correct and rittberger was rotated to losing less than a quarter of the rotation. So, it's evaluating people differently. Similarly your attitude towards the programs is more like who is coached by whom. It's not just Veronika whose programs looks like Eteri programs and I am not the only one who noticed that.
You used words, though didn't exaplain much. New style e.g., you claimed. I've posted the program from the show The Road to Victory where Sasha did precisely what she did in her short on saturday. So it's not that new as you claim. You can praise one and call out other, but again, when you attend same things differently with different people, than you must be prepared to be called biased, which you are, and that's why your critique has zero credit.
So Sorry to point out that once again you're referring to the wrong person.
Example here: i stated Evgenia's decision to skate while injured was not the smartest decision.
And that's something i've always believed in Figure Skating, the moment you show up at competitions, you're judged the same way as the others, regardless if you are injured or not. There is no "oh you're so brave" bonus mark.
If you are injured, you shouldn't compete.
As I've stated above, you bring things, that bother you outside, as if local fans were somehow responsible. I only counter your statements where you only blame Eteri fans of wrongdoing, never anyody else. That's why I also have to give examples of the fact that there are people who hate Eteri and how they show that in the discussion, to remove your one-sided biased version of reality. Above you said you admit there are such people but never made statements according to that and whole your position and comments you make here are formulated as if there was hate just towards former Eteri skaters, while there wasmn't any the other way. Eteri fans did this wrong, Eteri fans rdird that wrong. So it's appropriate to show the world is not black and white.
While I agree with the sentiment that this season Daniil's programs don't feel very innovative, I would even argue Shcherbakova's program content is almost exactly the same for her SP last season to this season. Your examples above are a little strange - recycling skating moves, costumes and using music for 1 skater that another skater rejected and thus didn't use? Based on your example it seems that no one should ever be able to repeat a move that another skater did since Shcherbakova mimicked the skid spiral that Medvedeva did 4 years ago. Costume recycling is a thing and it was on the junior level for both skaters, figure skating is expensive, I would much rather see a team have a skater re-use a costume someone else used and invest in additional fundamental training for a skater especially at the junior and lower levels. Both music choices you mentioned Medvedeva's music for 2015-2016 and Shcherbakova's FS music for this season - the music was never used by the other skaters, Lipnitskaia or Kostornaia. I don't see what the big deal is about using music for 1 skater that another skater didn't like and thus didn't perform?
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2018
Some of those are very current examples the way I mentioned them, in fact more current than the obnes you brought here. I agree with that. But you should look why it was mentioned. Before the current fertile discussion Tolstoy only brought things he didn't like and reproached "Eteri fans". So, why not to point out some examples of different . BTW, you are definitely the one who should complain about the bad behaviour of the fans.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2019
Oh, so you honestly think Sasha Trusova blindly went to a coach just for him to allow her to jump 5 quads in her free skate? She said she wasn’t allowed to jump more, it doesn’t mean that’s the only reason why she left.
Things are way more complex than some posters are trying to make it look like.
Maybe, the reason why she said “she wasn’t allowed” to jump more even has something to do with not having someone to hold the harness for her during the season.
She said herself that losing wasn’t what made her the saddest about last season, but not being able to land her quads cleanly. She said she had a mental blockage. Maybe, being verbally abused by her coaches (the way Kostornaia just revealed happened in her latest interview) caused her to have this type of mental blockage.
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2019
Very early on, even before covid, they had a sports.ru (I think that’s correct) had contest for some Aliona stuff— give her favorite program ideas (song choice + dress design) and you’ll be sent something if she likes your idea best.
I suggested some futuristic music (something space themed, with like a rocket launch countdown at the beginning or end) for the short program and then the modernized renditions of sleeping beauty music from the Maleficent soundtrack. I mean, she doesn’t seem to like the classical girl image, but her + maleficent would be a total classic twist that I don’t think anyone else could pull off and it would score points with the classical crowd and the modern crowd. Anyways, the whole point was for there to be a similar dichotomy as the angel-vampire programs except this time it would be Russian future-past.
Imo, Aliona performs too well to give her the same old. I know Anna likes playing it safe but even we see that those programs waste her skills, now imagine Aliona in something that rigid. Anna at least presents herself as very academic so the image works for her even if it doesn’t maximize her performance capabilities (Watch them bring back firebird for the Olympics) On the other hand, Aliona is known for being stubborn and outspoken and flying against the face of the norm. Sasha and Anna won’t comment? Aliona certainly will. Zhenya and Julia and even Sasha to an extent won’t discuss details of departure. Obviously Aliona will. Even the song choice, you should see me in a crown, is a slap in the face to the Russian media, who says she walks around as if she’s wearing in a crown. This is not painting a portrait of a shy and quiet girl doing something shy and quiet and soft. And while we know she can pull it off, why? If she can win with a twilight program AND loves it then obviously that’s the best choice for her.
Anyways these are my opinions, and maybe because I’m gen Z. I don’t like Eilish but I like it here and I don’t mind her performing to more modern/contemporary styles because she pulls it off, it’s different, and she likes it.
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2019
I don’t remember seeing that term exactly, but we like using the term “cognitive dissonance” to explain that. Where basically you view one thing in a certain way because you like it, but you completely contradict that logic when looking at it from a perspective you don’t.
An example: “I don’t understand why my professor takes so long to grade, probably because he’s so hard on the red pen” meaning that you expect to do poorly, but you’re blaming the teacher for grading too harshly. Then another professor takes forever to grade and you say “well he just has a lot of students and exams to get through”
It’s like— Orwell train of thought. Everything contradicts everything else but you don’t understand the disconnect in your own logic because of your bias.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2020
I cannot judge what is "true" to what degree and what is not. It was all about what Trusova said or not said. And she definitely said that she wanted to go to Plushenko because she hoped that he, as an uncompromising quad jumper, would help stabilize her multi-quad FS. Eteri would have always tried to slow them down, not just this year. Those were her words.
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2019
She explained this in her interview (here). I guess you didn't watch it or don't remember it because it doesn't fit into your narrative.
You assuming it doesn't make it true. She has never said anything that would suggest this.
Yeah that is concerning, i hope what we saw here is a sign of Trusova understanding there is another way to win this.
- Status
