2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[colormyworld240]

On the point of rippon triple axel, has anybody considered that this might be more stable for Kamila (slow her to stretch out more thus ensuring quicker/straighter rotation). Lots of people use rippons as part of their technique now rather than just a feature.

It's been the opposite, actually. Her 2A without the Rippon is much straighter and more stable in the air. And while we've only seen her 2A with the Rippon a few times, and once with the 3A, she's has axis issues in the all of them.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Umm - Have you been watching the Russian cup events this year? Shcherbakova and Khromykh both did 1 at the first cup event and Valieva did 1 last week.

Nope I haven’t. But good to know!

 

[Amei]

Nope I haven’t. But good to know!

You have been missing some really good/great skating - I feel it's better quality than we see at some GP events.

Edit to add: 1TV is streaming it on Youtube commercial free, so you get a solid couple hours of skating with no commercials and commentating is mostly limited to replays not during the actual performance. As an American who gets stuck having to watch limited coverage usually with the catty duo of Johnny and Tara or hunting on Instagram for performances because NBC geo-blocks everything, this season has been wonderful.

 

[Shayuki]

The commentary of the russia cup events was incredible, TAT really managed to be quiet for the entire duration of the performances and just talked afterwards, that's how it should be. It always frustrates me when a beautiful skating performance is ruined because the commentators feel the need to talk about what they were having for breakfast that morning.

I don't think there are any issues with Valieva's 3A. It might not be the biggest but looks just fine to me. Seems more steady than Trusova's for example. Seems like Valieva has a lot in store when it comes to jumps. Usacheva's 2A for example is quite a bit bigger.

 

[lopsilceci]

I also want to give my opinion of Saha under her new coach.

I wouldnt say there is any major difference and I think we need to be aware that she was with Eteri for several years and plushenkos team just a few months so we will have to wait and see how this new partnership progresses and what changes are made. Changes that Ive noticed in her skating is that she tries to use more glide and perform the coreography more. This has allways been sashas weakes point and she is not yet allways successful but I hope she will continue to improve during the season. This I imagine being mostly influenced by the new team and that icedance skating skills coach she now works with. This is not to say I think Eteri isnt capable of teaching good skating skills and flow but only that it seems to be a bigger priority now with Plushenko than it was with Eteri. Part of the change can of course com from Sasha herself who has been known to prefer to train jumps as much as allowed. I feel like that is maybe something which could have changed over the last season when she realised she was held back score wise compared to Aliona who is more proficient in this area and she being fierce competitor whould want to do her best to catch up. I have no real evidence for this last statement it may verry well only be my imaginings but it would not surprise me if it where at least in part true since change in this department rarely comes if the skater themself does not desire it.

Jumpwise I think all jumps look bigger and with more speed (see first point for improved speed). However they appear a bit less secure to me. The 3A looks closer than last season and the 4T looks higher and more immpressive than ever. Sasha has deffenetly grown this summer and looks significantly taller than last season and this seems to have made her stronger. Jumpwise this is so far my biggest takeaway she is stronger than last year. This makes her jumps higher but I feel like she lost a bit of stability since the timing probably have changed a bit with this new height. With quarantine etc in the middle this will probably get better over the coming season. Wherter her increased strengtht is down to just growth or some change in traning routine is impossible for us to know and we can only speculate.

Lastly spinns here I think she has regressed but It may not be Plushenkos fault. When we grow a lot in a short time like Sasha did this summer its natural to become a bit less flexible and with the change in balance especially spinns can suffer. Add the quarantine break in to this and that can probably explain this regression. As we saw during the 2nd russian cup she lost a lot of points here so they will probably work more on this area going forward. Another potential cause for this regression is that time used to be spent on spinns is now spent on skating skills and coreography and an improvement in one area has unfortunately caused a regression in another. There is after all only so many hours of training the body can take.
Overall I think there is cause to be hopefull for a good season from Sasha

Totally agree with all your points.

In terms of limited resources of time and energy during training, I'm wondering if it would be a better strategy for Sasha to focus on her technical elements only, and just do minimal work on the artistic aspects.
My reasoning is that Sasha is probably the strongest jumper in the whole ladies field, that's always been her main weapon but, as we saw last season, it only works if she's clean. She will never be able to catch up in PCS with other top ladies for whom the performance or musical aspects just comes naturally (Anna, Aliona, Kamila...), so maybe she just needs to do all her quads cleanly and make sure to get the levels in spins and stsq and then, even if she keeps transitions and performance to a minimal, her BV would make up for the lower PCS.
Even then, if she manages to become consistent with all her tech, competition after competition, I'm sure her PCS will reflect that and will gradually go up.

 

[Happy Skates]

I don't think there are any issues with Valieva's 3A. It might not be the biggest but looks just fine to me. Seems more steady than Trusova's for example. Seems like Valieva has a lot in store when it comes to jumps. Usacheva's 2A for example is quite a bit bigger.

I don't think we can judge the steadiness based on one attempt. Trusova has had some sketchy attempts, but has also had some very steady landings. Valieva's is great, but had a little bit of a shaky/forward landing, and isn't as huge as Trusova's. Overall its amazing that she landed it though! I hope Usacheva gets hers too, she's too gorgeous of a skater to not have a shot because she doesn't have a 3A or quads. And like you said her 2A (and other jumps too) are huge and have a lot of room.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Even then, if she manages to become consistent with all her tech, competition after competition, I'm sure her PCS will reflect that and will gradually go up.

Maybe, but I can see problems there...nobody likes it when a skater gets PCS purely because their tech is good. I mean it might not bother Sasha, but I could imagine her getting a lot of criticism by going that path. I mean she already does! Imagine how bad it would get if she became World or Olympic champion with no noticeable attention paid to the artistic side.

 

[lopsilceci]

Maybe, but I can see problems there...nobody likes it when a skater gets PCS purely because their tech is good. I mean it might not bother Sasha, but I could imagine her getting a lot of criticism by going that path. I mean she already does! Imagine how bad it would get if she became World or Olympic champion with no noticeable attention paid to the artistic side.

Personally, I don't have a problem with skaters with more difficult tech getting high PCS, as long as they're clean. But maybe that's just me

 

[Edwin]

The big girls now take to the ice in Sankt Peterburg, 1sp rank which is the level of the triples. Contestants include Anastasiya Marasanova: https://vk.com/video-78970490_456239251 , she is start number 14 in the first group of 2009 born girls, scheduled to start at 10:00 local time, which is around this hour on the board.

 

[Vilord]

Is her flexibility is the root cause behind the off-axis jumping? The question is going to be does that off-axis jumping become more or less of a problem when she goes through puberty - I could see it going either way.

Im not 100% sure if her flexibility is the cause but as a physicist and a figure skating coach I generally consider myslef to hav quite a good insight into technique in generall. What I will say is that its not uncommon for people with verry flexible hips go go off center the way Kamilla does. The reason is that for ideal weoght transfer the picking should happen on the skating curve at takeoff this is easiest done if hips are straight (or square as its sometimes called). However if you are verry flexible and dont pay attention to it you can sometimesopen your hips to much (spread eagel style) and pick inside the curve. This causes your momentum to get transfered to height the "wrong" way (not straight over the toepick) and this in turn causes the tilt. This mistake is much easier to make if you are more flexible. An unflexible person can still do it but its less likely. The reason im not sure about Kamilla is that to my eyes she does this both on the ones she hits and the ones that get a terrible tilt so somehow she manages to get it to work sometimes but not at others.

 

[Edwin]

What was shown of Kamila's triksel in the rippon position is probably still a work in progress. Entries and exits with some complexity will be worked out for her. She'll be landing more upright once she gets more comfortable, gets the "cut-'n-kick" right, adjusts herself in the proper position in flight, glides out of the landing in Kamila style.

If she continues like this, her triksel will be a work of art, much like Kostornaya's was. And when used in combination with a 2T or 3T, like juniors must do, it will even be better.

Dudakov all the way forwards to success!

 

[Shayuki]

There's no arguing this. Sasha's jumps were already way ahead of the time before she went to Eteri or Plushenko. She had a 3Lz-3Lo at what, 12/13? She said in an interview a long time ago that she saw Alina do it, and decided she wanted to do it, and it was ready in 1 season. It took Alina 3 seasons to get it to where it was at the Olympics.

And of course, she was the most talented jumper at Eteri's rink, and is at Plushenko's rink. For far, no one has been able to match her having all the quads, even under the same coaches.

She's not a more talented jumper than Veronika Zhilina, no way.

I'd say she isn't a more talented jumper than Sofia Akatieva, as well. Who isn't as talented as Veronika Zhilina, in my opinion.

 

[nussnacker]

Hot Take : if Sasha does not improve her artistry, then precious points will slip through her fingers, while she is raking in tech points HAND OVER FIST!!



Judges have consistently boosted PCS to crazy levels for programs with ultra-si. I would be surprised if Plyushenko of all people and Sasha, who studied the exploitation of IJS judging system under the master, do not understand this strategy:.

1. Genuflect about artistry toward the judges and the journalists and the couch people, for they are old and they want to feel relevant, but they still miss spirals. (I miss them too, but...).
2. If you land your ultra-si, you will be awarded "competitive" PCS,. And
3. If you appear clean(-ish) but you LAND MORE QUADS plus 3A. Then you will tear everyone down into pieces and bury them beneath a TES avalanche.

I'll leave it to the number crunchers to calculate, but she is the only one in the field who has the strength and fitness to maximize her ultra-si throughout her layout. And with her collection of elements she could threaten 300 pts.

No one else in the field is in complete control of their own destiny. Many skaters have qualities superior in comparison, but those qualities will not threaten 300 pts. even in a fever dream induced by the glare of the ice queen.

Sasha delivers the layout; the judges deliver the gold. This is not a situation of, "Well, her jumps are good, but...". This girl is a phenomenon, and if she lands 3, 4, 5? quads and she does not take gold; there will be a riot on the spot. On the day when everyone skates clean, no honest competitor could accept Gold over Trusova.

True. Her tech content is that of a Nathan Chen. She's unique!
If she'll land all her jumps, there's no way judges will put her not first. Even BV will not allow for that, but moreover it's something of a common sense - it's an athletic performance of unthinkable difficulty. How can someone with less tech be ahead of a performance like that?

 

[kolyadafan2002]

It's been the opposite, actually. Her 2A without the Rippon is much straighter and more stable in the air. And while we've only seen her 2A with the Rippon a few times, and once with the 3A, she's has axis issues in the all of them.

Double axel is different to triple axel because she already had the rotation for double axle before learning rippon. If she'd started learning double axel from rippon I imagine it'd be stronger with rippon.

Her 3A doesn't really have axis issues, just her back is twigged on landing and her takeoff isn't brilliant.

And in general, remember her jumps have generally been more off axis this season than previous season (maybe just due to lockdown and mental confidence).

 

[Edwin]

will two medal contestants be enough for Plyushcheno, or will he want to sweep the podium?
in that case, Valiyeva can look forwards to finding lots envelopes in her pigeon hole at the headquarters

 

[kolyadafan2002]

She's not a more talented jumper than Veronika Zhilina, no way.

I'd say she isn't a more talented jumper than Sofia Akatieva, as well. Who isn't as talented as Veronika Zhilina, in my opinion.

Trusova started a revolution, asking Tutberetzi to learn the quad. Since then the team (well all teams including Plushenko and davydov). has been on a learning curve, refining the way they teach in order to produce results consistently.

Veronika is continuing the revolution, with more stable methods of teaching it. Veronika is talented, but that doesn't take from Trusova.

In terms of Sofia, Sofia isn't on Trusovas level or Veronika's level. Sure she got quads quicker than Trusova, but there are no where near the quality of Trusovas level, and even further from Veronika Zhillina technical capacity.

 

[Edwin]

The Zhilina sisters are trained by Liudmila Alfyorova, their mother. So far, she has been doing quite OK, without the need of Plyushchenko's advice.

Small and strong young children learn these ultra-si elements so more easily it seems. Learn a triksel and a few quads young, and they'll stay with you throughout your career.

 

[Shayuki]

Trusova started a revolution, asking Tutberetzi to learn the quad. Since then the team (well all teams including Plushenko and davydov). has been on a learning curve, refining the way they teach in order to produce results consistently.

Veronika is continuing the revolution, with more stable methods of teaching it. Veronika is talented, but that doesn't take from Trusova.

In terms of Sofia, Sofia isn't on Trusovas level or Veronika's level. Sure she got quads quicker than Trusova, but there are no where near the quality of Trusovas level, and even further from Veronika Zhillina technical capacity.

Someone doing something first doesn't make them most talented, it makes them the... second to do something, in Trusova's case. As Shcherbakova jumped a quad before her. It's in general weird to see people say Trusova started this due to that. Shcherbakova had a quad in late 2016.

Zhilina landed 2 different quads and 3A before she was 12 years of age(at 3 different quads now), and she has textbook technique on just about everything.

 

[Azikin]

Someone doing something first doesn't make them most talented, it makes them the... second to do something, in Trusova's case. As Shcherbakova jumped a quad before her. It's in general weird to see people say Trusova started this due to that. Shcherbakova had a quad in late 2016.

Zhilina landed 2 different quads and 3A before she was 12 years of age, and she has textbook technique on just about everything.

I would like to add that I wouldn't underestimate Sofia.. she may not be on Trusova's level but who is.. and she's not even JGP eligible yet..

 

[Edwin]

Marasanova almost flawless routine in 1SP at Moskvina Cup, a solid first place in the short program: 71.78 - 2A, 3Lz+3T, CCoSp4, 3F (+10%), StSq3, FCSp4, LSP4 (BV 31.93, GOE 6.60, PCS 33.25)
and smiling all the way ...