2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Vilord]

This is very interesting. Because both the 3Lz and 3F are repeated.
While It seems that during Medvedeva and Zagitova era the triple-triple combinationations were more important than they are today. This is why Medvedeva had 3F-3T and 3S-3T. Which means that she was repeating the 3F and 3T and not the 3Lz and 3F.
By the way, which approach gives more points? Probably the one that has 3Lz-2T and 3F-3T?
And why Zagitova did not do 3Lz-3Lo, 3F-3T and 2A-2T-2Lo instead of 3Lz-3Lo, 2A-3T and 3F-2T-2Lo at the Olympics?

When designing program layout you allways have to look at it as a whole and not just individual elements. The "optimal" layout for a non 3A/quad program is to repeat 3Lz and 3F and have two different tripple-tripple combos ie choose two of +3T/+3Lo/+Eu+3S the best one here is to choose 3T and 3Lo like Sasha and Anna did before quads but that seems to be harder and more risky for most skaters.
The last combo then has to be either +2T/2Lo inthe case of +Eu+3S was used or +2T/2Lo+2T/2Lo otherwise.
Add in the rest of the tripples and two 2A for the complete set.
The next thing to consider is what jumps to put in the later half and get the bonus on. Idealy you want your three highest scoring elements here. That would then be three of the four 3Lz and 3F available. Idelay the two Lutses and one Flip each with the three combos discussed above.
Puting your three combos as your last three jumping elements is of course verry risky since there then is no chance to redo one of them if need be. We have seen a few skaters attempt this and succed mostly in juniors but otherwise most top skaters put one of the combos in the beginning. All Eteri skaters for example have their +2T combo as the first element.

Putting high value elemts in the second half is however only worth it for element you can perform with good GOE even when you are tired. Thats why many non Eteri skaters have simpler elemts here since they feel they couldnt do the harder elements with as good GOE towards then end. Remember the second half bonus corresponds to approximately +1 GOE (exaxtly that for solo jumps and somewhere between +1-+2 for combos). Meaning if you lose +2 GOE when having your tripple-tripple combo late in the program compared to early on then its not worth it (See Usasheva most of last season).

 

[[email protected]]

Why are we discussing Rika so much here?

My take on that is that during 2018-19 season Rika was appointed by many here as the undoubted leader of ladies's figure skating. In the power ranking thread that I started she was put on top of the list 23 times. I just checked that in the archives. I myself thought that she was #1 from mid December until WC. Well, after WC I put Alina back where she belonged.

So, Rika, supposedly was the embodiment of the end of Russian dominance. Well, although it never materialized realistically she is still the only skater who potentially can be competitive with the top Russians. That's the reason for the meaningless analysis, meaningless because only competing side by side gives all the answers.

 

[flanker]

I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks this... I think the gap is right where it should be. Aliona, with or without a 3A has better quality than Kihira in almost every element... I’d give the I-spin to Kihira, MAYBE a few other marks. But Kihira always seems as though she is stretching herself to interpret properly. She falls in and out of the performance, especially nearing the tough elements and right after. It’s not a cohesive program for me. Aliona’s performance skills far eclipse this. Her character is that of the performance until she drops her final pose. This immersion of character and performance is not a quality we see in Kihira (or really any other skater except maybe in Kamila’s Girl on Ball/Exogenesis before the nerves of the season hit her) and imo it deserves to be rewarded. Pull any still from a Kihira program and the emotion of the face is almost always the same. Pull a still from an Aliona program and there is a range of them, each equally convincing. This is why I find a disconnect from myself in Anna’s skating as well. She is no doubt of superb musicality but every program I feel she is expressing the same emotion. I was impressed with her Stage 1 performance because the final portion of the free skate was so different for her, but she failed to deliver these feelings again in Stage 3. And Aliona, for whatever reason, innate talent, that she took acting classes when she was younger, has no issues with this. And she should have higher PCS because of it. It draws the audience in.

This depends on personal preferences above all. I don't speak for "the audience", of course, but Anna attracted my attention the most of "the three", whatever we call them, since her first appearance on the JGP. I liked Aliona's programs and her skating, but Anna's performance is closer to me, intimate and personal. It is similar yet different style, Aliona is probably closer to the western style of skating, more opened, more like a show (even if the programs are lyrical), Anna shows (for me) more inward experience.

 

[Vilord]

This is very interesting. Because both the 3Lz and 3F are repeated.
While It seems that during Medvedeva and Zagitova era the triple-triple combinationations were more important than they are today. This is why Medvedeva had 3F-3T and 3S-3T. Which means that she was repeating the 3F and 3T and not the 3Lz and 3F.
By the way, which approach gives more points? Probably the one that has 3Lz-2T and 3F-3T?
And why Zagitova did not do 3Lz-3Lo, 3F-3T and 2A-2T-2Lo instead of 3Lz-3Lo, 2A-3T and 3F-2T-2Lo at the Olympics?

The reson for Zagitovas combo change after the Olympics was that the rules changed. At the Olympics all her jumps where in the 2nd half and recived the bonus then they just whent for the combos that had the highest quality. Moving the +3T from the 2A to the 3F would not have made any difference to the base value of her program.

However after the Olympics you could only have three elements in the bonus and thats why they decided to change the 2A+3T to a 3F+3T and put that in the bonus leaving the 2A in the first half with no bonus. (For more details on this see my previous post)

 

[flanker]

seems like the attacks on Russian fs instagram accounts continue:

Can this be reverted?

 

[JazzUp]

Can this be reverted?

should be, even if it was hacked (judging by the new bio) - it was a verified one, with a

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

When designing program layout you allways have to look at it as a whole and not just individual elements. The "optimal" layout for a non 3A/quad program is to repeat 3Lz and 3F and have two different tripple-tripple combos ie choose two of +3T/+3Lo/+Eu+3S the best one here is to choose 3T and 3Lo like Sasha and Anna did before quads but that seems to be harder and more risky for most skaters.
The last combo then has to be either +2T/2Lo inthe case of +Eu+3S was used or +2T/2Lo+2T/2Lo otherwise.
Add in the rest of the tripples and two 2A for the complete set.
The next thing to consider is what jumps to put in the later half and get the bonus on. Idealy you want your three highest scoring elements here. That would then be three of the four 3Lz and 3F available. Idelay the two Lutses and one Flip each with the three combos discussed above.
Puting your three combos as your last three jumping elements is of course verry risky since there then is no chance to redo one of them if need be. We have seen a few skaters attempt this and succed mostly in juniors but otherwise most top skaters put one of the combos in the beginning. All Eteri skaters for example have their +2T combo as the first element.

Putting high value elemts in the second half is however only worth it for element you can perform with good GOE even when you are tired. Thats why many non Eteri skaters have simpler elemts here since they feel they couldnt do the harder elements with as good GOE towards then end. Remember the second half bonus corresponds to approximately +1 GOE (exaxtly that for solo jumps and somewhere between +1-+2 for combos). Meaning if you lose +2 GOE when having your tripple-tripple combo late in the program compared to early on then its not worth it (See Usasheva most of last season).

It is great when a skater can do a triple-3Lo combo. Not everyone can. Also, as far as I remember no one did an +Eu sequence during Medvedeva and Zagitova era.
But now Sasha can do this for her FS:
4T-Eu-3S
3A-3T
3Lz-3Lo
4S
4Lo
4F
4Lz
Alignes perfectly and she does not have to repeat a flip jump. Since she had problem with the 3F edge.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

The reson for Zagitovas combo change after the Olympics was that the rules changed. At the Olympics all her jumps where in the 2nd half and recived the bonus then they just whent for the combos that had the highest quality. Moving the +3T from the 2A to the 3F would not have made any difference to the base value of her program.

However after the Olympics you could only have three elements in the bonus and thats why they decided to change the 2A+3T to a 3F+3T and put that in the bonus leaving the 2A in the first half with no bonus. (For more details on this see my previous post)

I think she never did 3F-3T. She did 3Lz-3T and 3Lz-3Lo.

 

[Vilord]

Can this be reverted?

Maybe. The content probably still exists in Instagrams data bases at least for a time. If they contact Instagram and explain what has happened they should be able to get it back. But as I understand that process can be verry tiresome.

 

[Vilord]

I think she never did 3F-3T. She did 3Lz-3T and 3Lz-3Lo.

That does sound familiar so you are probably right but change 3F to 3Lz and the rest of my point is still valid. I just went with what the previous poster wrote and didnt bother to dubble check it.

 

[Vilord]

It is great when a skater can do a triple-3Lo combo. Not everyone can. Also, as far as I remember no one did an +Eu sequence during Medvedeva and Zagitova era.
But now Sasha can do this for her FS:
4T-Eu-3S
3A-3T
3Lz-3Lo
4S
4Lo
4F
4Lz
Alignes perfectly and she does not have to repeat a flip jump. Since she had problem with the 3F edge.

That would be an absolutely insane layout. Also remember to move the combos into the bonus half for an extra 10% BV.

But if we are realistic I think Sasha should stick to max 4 quads/3A and work on consisteny and quality of her overall program. If she gains consistency with the 3A I would probably go for something like this
Short (Current layout)
3A
3F
3Lz+3T/Lo

Free
4Lz/F/Lo/S (Whichever is more stable)
4T+3T
3A
3F
x4T+Eu+3S
x3Lz+3Lo
x3Lz

This seems to me both realistic but also verry impressive. Its verry similair to what she had last season but with 3A and one less quad. This way she gets rid of the 2A both in the short and the free.

 

[Supernovaimplosion]

Do you guys think Sasha will add the 3A to the FS this season?

 

[Vilord]

Do you guys think Sasha will add the 3A to the FS this season?

Im not sure I think it depends on how stable it is. Currently she has 3 quads and I think there can be room for one more either 3A or quad. Things that speak for the 3A is that it can replace her current least value jump the 2A but also that she needs to work on it for the short anyway. Thing that speak aganist it is that quads have higher value and I cant be bothered to do the maths now but it may be more anvantageous to replace the 3F with a 4F than the 2A with a 3A.

 

[silveruskate]

Im not sure I think it depends on how stable it is. Currently she has 3 quads and I think there can be room for one more either 3A or quad. Things that speak for the 3A is that it can replace her current least value jump the 2A but also that she needs to work on it for the short anyway. Thing that speak aganist it is that quads have higher value and I cant be bothered to do the maths now but it may be more anvantageous to replace the 3F with a 4F than the 2A with a 3A.

5.7 vs 4.7 I think, and then GOE difference is another point. But a 3A would be easier and take less energy. The layout you said has to be the goal. It's within reach and makes so much sense.

 

[plushyfan]

is this new?

 

[Magill]

is this new?

That's an interesting question. It seems to me that it is the same dress but with slightly different colours, some parts which used to be light green seem to me to be darker now and more blueish, with overall darker impression. But it might be also the question of different light and different background colours. Interesting, really. I might be wrong. We'll probably find out soon!

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

I just remembered that last year Sasha landed her first 3A in practice. And a video of it was posted. I think one or two days after Alyona won the GPF.
And people were commenting:"Now that Trusova has 3A, it is game over. She will win everything from now on."
Others said:"Why Team Eteri posted this video so soon after Alyona's win? What a toxic atmosphere."

 

[anonymoose_au]

That's an interesting question. It seems to me that it is the same dress but with slightly different colours, some parts which used to be light green seem to me to be darker now and more blueish, with overall darker impression. But it might be also the question of different light and different background colours. Interesting, really. I might be wrong. We'll probably find out soon!

Aww I loved the first dress (green is my favourite colour) Not that the change (if there is one, like you said it could be the light) is terrible, but still...more green in skating I say!

Of greater interest to me is her FP costume, is the new one ready yet I wonder!

ETA: There were some other photos of the dress posted, the neckline is higher and the straps wider, so it is indeed a new dress.

 

[nussnacker]

5.7 vs 4.7 I think, and then GOE difference is another point. But a 3A would be easier and take less energy. The layout you said has to be the goal. It's within reach and makes so much sense.

I think Sasha said that 3A is the hardest jump for her, so it probably isn’t easier for her.

 

[Magill]

I just remembered that last year Sasha landed her first 3A in practice. And a video of it was posted. I think one or two days after Alyona won the GPF.
And people were commenting:"Now that Trusova has 3A, it is game over. She will win everything from now on."
Others said:"Why Team Eteri posted this video so soon after Alyona's win? What a toxic atmosphere."

I seem to remember it differently. Didn't Sasha try her 3A in her SP at the GPF but she fell there? That's what I remember. I recall the video from the practice when she landed it but it seems just logical to me that it must had been before the GPF. It might have been just after Alyona win at NHK, but I do not remember the details. Anyone else?