2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
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- Jan 20, 2019
I don't know if that was all there was to it but Sasha herself said in the documentary that came out before the season started that the main reason or difference in opinion she had with TT was that she wanted to jump more quads and they kept limiting the number.
I don't know... Sasha still hasn't had a clean FP in competition with less quads or a 5 quad layout yet but it's definitely the biggest challenge this new team will have on the road to the Olympics.
Especially if that team member due to a badly timed injury only managed to compete in one and medaled at the on she participated in
If they dont compete that ceartinly changes thing the cutoff would then most likely be 14pts. I allways assumed the actual juniors would still go but I guess we will see what happens.
As someone else mentioned the probability of junior worlds may play averry big part in the decision.
I'm pretty sure they will compete at Junior Rus Nats. It's a highly prestigious event with medals at stake - why wouldn't they?
And it was established before that the Russian Cup rules this year said, that if you qualified for Senior RusNats you were automatically eligible for Junior Nats as well.
Last year Frolova qualified for Senior Rusnats entering two Senior Russian Cup stages, then she went on to compete at Junior Nats.
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- Mar 26, 2014
I am not sure about that. Both times Anna came as an underdog of 3A. Remember "good advises" people here gave to her at the beginning of the last season including staying in juniors? The first time it could be a pure luck. But 2 times in a row.... If Sasha wins CoR and nails her quads at the Nationals is one thing. If she wins CoR and fails the Nationals - it will be the other thing. Anna has a weapon of 3 highest value quads in the free program plus pcs edge over Sasha. If she lands all of them Sasha will have to deliver a 3A in the short program and 4 clean quads in the free program. She can do it but it will be a big challenge.
As for Alyona, she was more or less hopeless at her first outing in terms of winning either CoR or Rusnats. But there can be an upward looking trend. We shall see next week. My current view about Rusnats is 1-2 Trusova/Scherbakova 3 Valieva 4-5 Kostornaya/Usacheva 6-8 Tuktamysheva/Frolova/Khromykh
Agree with every word you just said.
Based on what weve seen so far I agree with this. Trusova and Sherbakova have been scoring verry closely with Sasha slightly ahead but they have both had struggles so far and the one overcoming them the best will come out as the winner. I think Kostornaia has the potential to battle for 3rd with Valieva but then she needs to step it up from what we saw last weekend.
Out of Tuktamysheva/Frolova/Kromykh Tuktamysheva probably has the highest scoring potential but the shoulder injury and her tendencies to loose levels on spinns and steps make her a bit unreliable. And I dont quite know what to expect. If she brings her A-game she can probably challenge Usasheva but same as Kostornaia that would require her to step up her game. At the moment Frolova would probably be my pick for 6th mostly based on reliability and consistency and in the long run that tends to pay off.
Trusova is scoring slightly ahead of Shcherbakova but look at the jump content they are doing in comparison - at this point Shcherbakova has only competed a 1 quad FS (granted that 4F is really good), whereas Trusova is doing a triple axel in the SP and 3-4 quads in the FS. Based on how they've been scored if Shcherbakova lands a second quad in her FS then Trusova will likely have to go clean on all her jumps to beat Shcherbakova.
well.. I think Anna has the best shot of winning .... and I'm saying that without anna being my favourite skater
I know sasha has a lots of 4 and almost a 3A .. but the 3A if she doesn't landed the 3A perfectly she looses points to Anna even without the 3A .. and in the free she needs to land at least 3 perfect quads to beat a clean Anna with one ... if Anna put 2 perfect 4 ... sasha will need to land 4 ... and it's difficult land quads after quads in every competition even for the best men ... sasha is getting better and I think her and plushy is a couple made in heaven ... but the difference is more visible because she isn't in puberty yet... kostornaia and anna are .. if you look at the podium of last week sasha still has a child body (without hips) and kostornaia has a woman body ... so the moment puberty strikes sasha probably won't land all 4 quads in a program ..
I know sasha has a lots of 4 and almost a 3A .. but the 3A if she doesn't landed the 3A perfectly she looses points to Anna even without the 3A .. and in the free she needs to land at least 3 perfect quads to beat a clean Anna with one ... if Anna put 2 perfect 4 ... sasha will need to land 4 ... and it's difficult land quads after quads in every competition even for the best men ... sasha is getting better and I think her and plushy is a couple made in heaven ... but the difference is more visible because she isn't in puberty yet... kostornaia and anna are .. if you look at the podium of last week sasha still has a child body (without hips) and kostornaia has a woman body ... so the moment puberty strikes sasha probably won't land all 4 quads in a program ..
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- Sep 23, 2020
Actually I think Sasha most probably is going to keep this type of body well into her adulthood. Just the way she's built probably - and lucky for her when choosing to be a figure skater. She grew a lot last season, much more than Anna or Alyona, and her figure did not change much.
Otherwise, I agree Sasha and Plushy are a couple made in heaven and I hope it will translate to their results together. Well, Sasha has not been perfect this season but neither has Anna. I like them both but I don't think anything has been decided between them yet.
Aliona I will agree but Anna? She looks just as much like a "child" in the body as Sasha only thinner frame and less naturally muscular. Both of them seem to have significantly grown in height since last season though. I think it might be the case that Anna will get a similair body to say Tursynbayeva that will allways remain thinn and rather straight and Sasha will have a similairly straight body type but more muscular. This growth in height might be their puberty. It just looks verry different from someone like kostornaia who seem to be filling out more like most women do.
I dont mean this to shame anyone. Women come in all bodytypes and its ok to be curvier or straighter. Though I expect the straighter and thinner to be more suited to quads, both can be beatufuil skaters though. I base this in physics (Mainly moment of inertia) not in any personal preference for certain body types.
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- Feb 13, 2018
I've been thinking recently that maybe we just don't know how quads work? I don't mean to be facetious, but for a long time, it was always "women can't do quads because of their body shape" but then Sasha started doing them and everyone said "well she's young, she'll probably start losing them when she goes through puberty" but as she gets older, and keeps landing them, as well as if other older girls (like Tuk and Kosto) lands them, it disproves this theory too. Maybe the reason women never learned quads was because everyone thought women couldn't do them and it was more worthwhile to train other things then train quads. We live in exciting times for figure skating.
Also, this isn't a direct reply to you, but I was just thinking about it
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- Feb 18, 2019
If they end up competing in the cup finals, they'd probably compete MS just like they've been doing in the cup stages. They didnt do RCF last year, but maybe it'll be different if there's no Junior Worlds.
It's completely inaccurate to say that Sasha has a child's body and is not undergoing puberty simply because she has slim hips. Plenty of women have slim hips through adulthood (Kate Middleton is the most obvious example of this), and these women also tend to have muscular builds. Her body type is one where she will always have narrow hips relative to her waist, which increases her chances of keeping her rotation speed and jumps, much like male skaters. However, she has still grown and filled out significantly since last season. Anna has grown and filled out as well, but Anna has a slim hourglass figure with a narrow waist, while Sasha has a straight figure with narrow hips. I suspect both skaters will be pretty successful in maintaining their jumps with their body shape advantages.
You sparked the Physicist in me so prepare for a lecture (preferably one held on chalkboards
):When jumping there is essentially two things that matter Angular momentum ("amount" of rotation) and height.
Angular momentum is the term used in physics to describe rotation. It has a direction (essentialy the axis of rotation) and a value (essentially the amount of rotation produced during the takeoff). Angular momentum (L) relates three quantities: rotation speed (w), weight/mass (m) and moment of inertia (I) as L=mIw.
When jumping multirotation jumps we need to maximise w there are two ways to do this minimize m*I or maximize L.
To minimise m*I there are two things to consider the wheight. In this instance the smaller the better (remember this is not saying anyone should diet. Just laws of nature unforturnately). The second is to minimise the moment of inertia which is essentially a measurement of how far away from the axis of rotation your bodywheight is distributed. This is why I belive a thinner less curvy body type is more suited to quads since that body type will have a lower moment of inertia. This is also why a tight body position in the air is important.
To maximise the angular momentum aquired during the takeoff it is less simple since every jump is different. Loop is in this instance the easiest since the only way to gain angular momentum here is through the speed and the curve of the takeoff. Higher speed and more curve give higher angular momentum. But as Im sure everyone who has tried jumping knows more speed and curve requires more strength to controll since the forces acting on the body will be stronger. So a stronger body could potentially aquire more Angular momentu, and make up for the loss in weight and moment of inertia compared to a weaker thinner body. (But a body like sashas who at least for now is both thin and verry strong gets best of both worlds).
In axel, Toeloop and Salchow the movement of the right leg during takeoff also aquires angular momentum and in flip and Lutz the placement and manner of picking will influence the angular momentum aquired. The loop argument about the curve into the jump is valid for all jumps exept Lutz which essentially takes of on the "wrong" curve (at least if done properly like say Lisa T). This is why its considered more difficult than a Flip.
The arm movement will contribute some as well but comparatively little compared to the rest.
The last thing to consider is jumping height. This is verry strait forward higher jumps= more time in the air=more time to complete the rotation. Jumping height is directly given by the amount of uppward force generated by the takeoff leg when jumping. Here arm movements can also help slightly like in a well timed rippon but their contribution is comparatively small.
To sum up there is nothing stopping any bodytype jumping a quad but a thinner one will have less forces acting on the body and therefore not requirering the same strength. Since a thinner lighter body will naturally spinn faster than a heavier curvier one. The curvier body can make up for this in two ways either aquire more height or more angular momentum both of these requires strength (and good basic technique).
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- Dec 7, 2019
I second that.
she never won against a full rank as a senior, whiile A&A did.
It would help her immensely on the mind game
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- Dec 7, 2019
It's not jus the 3A.Agree although, without her 3A right now, I don't think Alena can win - mathematically, unless both Sasha and Anna have several mistakes. Although, I'm hoping for clean skates for all!
You cannot win without being at the top of your game and she's not at the moment.
She just have to accept that and do her best to continue on her form recovery path
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- Feb 27, 2014
Thank you for your in-depth post and that wonderful interview with Alisa. I had forgotten that she was so mistreated by the professor and he basically sabotaged her career at what 15 or 16 years old? Ridiculous and outrageous. There's a YouTube video of her and other skating at senior Russian Nationals three or four years ago and she looks so promising and she has this amazing personality and smile that's uplifting. More skaters have careers that don't pan out like Alisas than they do that do pan out big-time like Alinas.I changed my opinion on Mishin since he practically ruined the career of the beautiful Lozko due to politiking. She was Alina‘s teammate from Izhevsk and, at the time, the more promising and talanted one. So Mishin took Lozko and refused Alina. After some time, Lozko felt she was going nowhere, so she moved to Moscow and was admited in Eteri‘s group. Mishin pulled some strings and the Fed told her father they have to go back to St. Petersburg. So, Lozko went back only to find herself neglected and blacklisted by Mishin, so she had huge difficulties finding another coach. At the end, her career ended before it really begun, while her less impressive teammate from Izhevsk went on to conquer the world.
I think Mishin blames Moscow for scooping the most talanted skaters and is no stranger to politiking. And he definitely is interested in coaching ladies. Before reading an interview with Lozko, I thought he was this good old man, a genuinely nice farherly figure, but he is not. I am tired of Eteri being portrayed as ruthless monster and Mishin as a nice teddy bear, when the reality is quite different. One just needs to compare the careers of Lozko and Zagitova, same age, same rink, only Lozko was more advanced for her age. Can‘t stop thinking how lucky Alina was that Mishin refused to take her... So he has noone to blame, he has ample opportunities to develop talent. And I‘ve never heard the „vicious“ Eteri trying to riun the career of an ex student. Yes, she expesses disappointment and sometimes says more than she should, but pulling strings to get the skater back or to blacklist her with other coaches is a whole new level of wrong.
Liza T is a huge talent and there is no excuse for the mediocre layouts and programs she gets, and the costly lack of attention to details.. Sometimes I think Liza is too loyal for her own good. And if Mishin is such a great technician, how come his other lady skaters cannot jump?
Sorry for the rant, but I think that much of the perception for Mishin is built on PR, not facts.
Edit: I am adding the link to Alisa Lozko‘s interview, in case anyone missed it.
Алиса Лозко — о расставании с Мишиным, тренировках у Тутберидзе и дружбе с Загитовой. Большое интервью «Матч ТВ»
О том, какие последствия может иметь один неосторожный шаг, почему она не осталась в группе Тутберидзе, отчего не продолжила заниматься танцами на льду и как пережила уход из спорта.matchtv.ru
Can you imagine if she got to work with EG for a couple years? Working with that coach could have made all the difference. These kids get chewed up and spit out. sad. I hope Alisa is healthy and happy. But every day she must think to herself what could have been and that's a heavy burden to bear the rest of your life.
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- Dec 31, 2019
Yes, agreed. Although I don't think anyone is right now. And she will have favourable scoring. She's an innately beautiful skater who gets high PCS and GOE. (There's a reason that even with her struggling everyone is placing her around 3rd ahead of other skaters with 3As or and high technical content.)
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