2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Jontor]

Or she, like half of all Russian skaters right now, suffered from “pneumonia“. Or a “very tough cold“, or a “fever“. You choose.

Anyway, I hope all skaters make it through this without any serious consequences to their health. RusFed would deserve to learn the hard way that holding a banquet without social distancing in the middle of a pandemic, or competitions without strict mandatory mask wearing regulations is extraordinarily stupid. The skaters, however, do not. They‘re paying for it with their career and health. Sure, they should know better and in the end, everyone is responsible for themselves. But if this is how the ones in charge decide to address the issue (by hiding it and acting as if everything was perfectly fine and nothing was happening whatsoever), I’m not surprised the skaters themselves aren‘t taking it as seriously as they should either. It‘s not an excuse for going to the banquet or not wearing masks properly but in the end, the skaters themselves didn‘t force those “two cups to qualify to Nats“ rules on themselves.

As for RusFed...well, they will continue to pat themselves on the back for “being the only ones to save figure skating this season“ until something truly drastic happens. Maybe even then.

Fluture. That was a bit harsh. I am sure the Russians are very aware of the pandemic. But they are trying, like all of us, coping and finding a way to live through this nightmare. Maybe the measures they are taking are not enough in your liking. But who are we to criticize other countries' policies? We all do the best as we can. And it's not like any government is wanting the virus to spread. This whole mask situation for instance is still up for debate, it's interesting that the WHO only last year published a study that there is no proof that they are of any help at all (they have removed that study now). So we get different directions and advices from different countries. That's because, unfortunatelly, the virus has gone political. What's left for us people to do is to THINK for ourselves. So, I'd say, take care out there - and wash your hands.

 

[Jontor]

Apparently she was injured first, which was why she had to withdraw from 1st stage and test skates, and then she got a cold so she couldn't train (or something like that) so she withdrew from 5th stage. At this point I just hope she heals quickly and can get back on the ice to train for (possibly?) RusNats or if not that (possibly?) Russian Cup FInal. I just hope she gets one event this season at least so RusFed will give her a GP next season (because looking at the standings for next season... getting just one GP spot will be a bloodbath. Ugh, if she doesn't even get one I will literally cry because it's looking very likely she won't get any and she definitely would have gotten one, if not two, this season.)

Yes, the GP assignments for next year is all up in the blue at this point. I'm suspecting though that they will use last year's Worlds Standings List which will be sooo unfair. The Juniors going into Seniors has no chance that way...
I hope though that all the Feds come to their senses and realises this. But it will be tough, as all the the Federations needs to have a consensus on what to do...so I fear they will just use World Standings 2020...

 

[readernick]

Fluture. That was a bit harsh. I am sure the Russians are very aware of the pandemic. But they are trying, like all of us, coping and finding a way to live through this nightmare. Maybe the measures they are taking are not enough in your liking. But who are we to criticize other countries' policies? We all do the best as we can. And it's not like any government is wanting the virus to spread. This whole mask situation for instance is still up for debate, it's interesting that the WHO only last year published a study that there is no proof that they are of any help at all (they have removed that study now). So we get different directions and advices from different countries. That's because, unfortunatelly, the virus has gone political. What's left for us people to do is to THINK for ourselves. So, I'd say, take care out there - and wash your hands.

I agree that it is very unfortunate that a virus has became politicized. The Russian government's response is its own and separate from the response of organizations and individuals. However, I also don't think that means the Russian skating federation (or JF who didn't have great protections at NHK either) should be let off the hook for their poor choices. RF has allowed skaters who are sick, skaters who train in the same rink as skaters diagnosed with COVID (hello Kamila V. and Morisi at Rostelecom) , and audience members/ coaches who don't follow infection protocol correctly to participate in large events. Endangering its young athletes. This has led to mass infection among their young athletes and their coaches (who are likely at higher risks). Frankly that isn't acceptable by any standard.

 

[Fluture]

Fluture. That was a bit harsh. I am sure the Russians are very aware of the pandemic. But they are trying, like all of us, coping and finding a way to live through this nightmare. Maybe the measures they are taking are not enough in your liking. But who are we to criticize other countries' policies?

I‘m not talking about Russia‘s politics as a whole, why would I? It‘s not allowed in this thread and doesn‘t contribute much to the discussion. I am, however, talking specifically about RusFed. They are “trying“, sure, but holding a banquet in the middle of pandemic with no regards for social distancing rules or allowing sick skaters (or their rinkmates who should be in quarantine) to compete is just unacceptable. I can understand them trying to pave a way for athletes to not lose all their competitive experience this season. I cannot understand endangering so many people for the sake of nothing at all.

]We all do the best as we can. And it's not like any government is wanting the virus to spread. This whole mask situation for instance is still up for debate, it's interesting that the WHO only last year published a study that there is no proof that they are of any help at all (they have removed that study now). So we get different directions and advices from different countries. That's because, unfortunatelly, the virus has gone political. What's left for us people to do is to THINK for ourselves. So, I'd say, take care out there - and wash your hands.

I‘m sorry but at this point I‘m not going to even engage in any of those “we don‘t actually know whether masks have any positive effects“. Even if one doesn’t believe in them, wearing a mask won‘t do any harm. It’s not that hard to just pull that piece of fabric over your nose while you‘re in proximity of others.

Ultimately, recklessness is recklessness, no matter by whom. Someone else mentioned JSF and it’s true that they’re reckless too with their insistence on having a competition with spectators. But at least the crowd wore masks properly there.

I know I am harsh. But people are literally dying and even if so far, we have been lucky and no Russian skaters have had serious repercussions on their healths, this isn‘t a guarantee. It‘s nearly every week or so that we see athletes dropping out with “pneumonia“ or a “serious cold“. And yet they act as if everything was okay just to go ahead with competitions? Frankly, it‘s scary.

Even if these skaters are young, we don‘t know how the virus would affect them. And most of their coaches actually are in the endangered age group. It‘s like playing with fire. People ARE trying their best everyday, yes! I jusr don‘t see RusFed doing it.

In the end, there‘s not much we can personally do. I realise I‘ve been venting in my last two posts more than usually but I‘ve seen one too many cases of “pneumonia“ recently. I do hope that everyone stays healthy, though and that the skaters who are already sick have a swift recovery.

 

[katymay]

I suspect there were more covid related illnesses like pneumonia than they've let us know over the past months.

Trusova looked terrible at Rostelcom-dark circles under her eyes, pale and tired etc. Perhaps she just didn't get enough sleep, but I thought she looked ill.

 

[Scott512]

Apparently she was injured first, which was why she had to withdraw from 1st stage and test skates, and then she got a cold so she couldn't train (or something like that) so she withdrew from 5th stage. At this point I just hope she heals quickly and can get back on the ice to train for (possibly?) RusNats or if not that (possibly?) Russian Cup FInal. I just hope she gets one event this season at least so RusFed will give her a GP next season (because looking at the standings for next season... getting just one GP spot will be a bloodbath. Ugh, if she doesn't even get one I will literally cry because it's looking very likely she won't get any and she definitely would have gotten one, if not two, this season.)

I think they were planning on two GPs for ksenia this season. She has had a cold for a couple months. Hmmm. Sadly coronavirus is killing careers and people. I hope we see Ksenia next season because we won't see her this season. There's not much season left.

 

[Jontor]

I‘m not talking about Russia‘s politics as a whole, why would I? It‘s not allowed in this thread and doesn‘t contribute much to the discussion. I am, however, talking specifically about RusFed. They are “trying“, sure, but holding a banquet in the middle of pandemic with no regards for social distancing rules or allowing sick skaters (or their rinkmates who should be in quarantine) to compete is just unacceptable. I can understand them trying to pave a way for athletes to not lose all their competitive experience this season. I cannot understand endangering so many people for the sake of nothing at all.



I‘m sorry but at this point I‘m not going to even engage in any of those “we don‘t actually know whether masks have any positive effects“. Even if one doesn’t believe in them, wearing a mask won‘t do any harm. It’s not that hard to just pull that piece of fabric over your nose while you‘re in proximity of others.

Ultimately, recklessness is recklessness, no matter by whom. Someone else mentioned JSF and it’s true that they’re reckless too with their insistence on having a competition with spectators. But at least the crowd wore masks properly there.

I know I am harsh. But people are literally dying and even if so far, we have been lucky and no Russian skaters have had serious repercussions on their healths, this isn‘t a guarantee. It‘s nearly every week or so that we see athletes dropping out with “pneumonia“ or a “serious cold“. And yet they act as if everything was okay just to go ahead with competitions? Frankly, it‘s scary.

Even if these skaters are young, we don‘t know how the virus would affect them. And most of their coaches actually are in the endangered age group. It‘s like playing with fire. People ARE trying their best everyday, yes! I jusr don‘t see RusFed doing it.

In the end, there‘s not much we can personally do. I realise I‘ve been venting in my last two posts more than usually but I‘ve seen one too many cases of “pneumonia“ recently. I do hope that everyone stays healthy, though and that the skaters who are already sick have a swift recovery.

Fair enough, You are concerned. We are all concerned. And I know that young people won't take this seriously, how could they? They are just young and don't have the life experiences to make the right choices. So all the young skaters will (try to) train and do what they always done. What else can they do? So it's important that there are mature people around them that can make those good decisions. And this is out of our hands, we can only hope they have those mature people... Is RusFed those mature people? I don't know, but I also don't think they are heartless monsters. Especially as the RusFed is mostly made out of a big vulnerable-for-COVID-19-group.

But, Fluture, at a time like this, should we just give up and lock up ourselves or should we fight? isn't it important that life continues? we have to be careful for sure but where is that line of carelessness? You say masks, I'm not so sure. Is a banquet irresponsible? Maybe so. Nobody knows at this point.

I guess my point is that I don't see the point in complaining when we don't really know what's right or wrong. As for now, we have two strong groups of epidemiologist who say opposite things. "Go out there - get herd immunity" vs "Stay inside - do nothing".

As for pneumonia, and Shcherbakova (who I am deeply concerned with), I hope she gets well soon. I hope it's nod COVID-related but it probably is... However, pneumonia is something ice skaters get all the time, I guess it's all that chilly ice training. Remember Tuktamysheva a couple of years ago?

 

[Jontor]

Trusova looked terrible at Rostelcom-dark circles under her eyes, pale and tired etc. Perhaps she just didn't get enough sleep, but I thought she looked ill.

Perhaps. But it so typical of athletes. They feel a slight cold or fever, they try to shake it off and think "I can do this anyway". And then they get reaaalllly sick. It's the same old story, top athletes (unfortunately) behave this way.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I guess my point is that I don't see the point in complaining when we don't really know what's right or wrong. As for now, we have two strong groups of epidemiologist who say opposite things. "Go out there - get herd immunity" vs "Stay inside - do nothing".

I don't think the herd immunity argument is in the mainstream, especially with vaccine launches imminent. Personally, I'd like to see a little more caution taken when holding events, but I do think every country has a right to run their public health policy as they see fit. If the ISU and a handful of countries want to hold a world championship, and feel like they can put on the event safely, I'd be ok with that. We saw big tennis tournaments in New York and Paris put on that didn't end up being super spreader events, so it can be done.

 

[Amei]

I agree that it is very unfortunate that a virus has became politicized. The Russian government's response is its own and separate from the response of organizations and individuals. However, I also don't think that means the Russian skating federation (or JF who didn't have great protections at NHK either) should be let off the hook for their poor choices. RF has allowed skaters who are sick, skaters who train in the same rink as skaters diagnosed with COVID (hello Kamila V. and Morisi at Rostelecom) , and audience members/ coaches who don't follow infection protocol correctly to participate in large events. Endangering its young athletes. This has led to mass infection among their young athletes and their coaches (who are likely at higher risks). Frankly that isn't acceptable by any standard.

I believe all of the skaters have to test prior to competing, so if they have tested negative I don't see an issue with them being at an event. Additionally we don't know what they are doing in terms of how many people are on the ice or in the gyms, etc. so they may not be in direct contact with Medvedeva and she's been injured, and they are all single skaters it's not like they are a synchro team or pairs/ice dance partners where they are guaranteed to be coming into contact with her. And when you say "Mass infection among their young athletes and their coaches" - exactly how many skaters have gotten COVID since the Fed got training facilities for the national teams in late May? You used the word "mass" I only remember hearing about 4 athletes, Zahorski who got it during the offseason (so is any part of her skating career really to blame for that infection?), Morozov, Medvedeva and Zhilina, that's not exactly a massive number of skaters.. And even then there's still a degree of uncertainty in regards to whether the athlete actually got sick due to training or whether they got it in their everyday life, in other words - regardless of how the Fed is handling competitions this year they would have still come down with COVID.

 

[Supernovaimplosion]

I believe all of the skaters have to test prior to competing, so if they have tested negative I don't see an issue with them being at an event. Additionally we don't know what they are doing in terms of how many people are on the ice or in the gyms, etc. so they may not be in direct contact with Medvedeva and she's been injured, and they are all single skaters it's not like they are a synchro team or pairs/ice dance partners where they are guaranteed to be coming into contact with her. And when you say "Mass infection among their young athletes and their coaches" - exactly how many skaters have gotten COVID since the Fed got training facilities for the national teams in late May? You used the word "mass" I only remember hearing about 4 athletes, Zahorski who got it during the offseason (so is any part of her skating career really to blame for that infection?), Morozov, Medvedeva and Zhilina, that's not exactly a massive number of skaters.. And even then there's still a degree of uncertainty in regards to whether the athlete actually got sick due to training or whether they got it in their everyday life, in other words - regardless of how the Fed is handling competitions this year they would have still come down with COVID.

Well there's Kozlovskii and Galliamov. Stepanova/Bukin and Shevchenko/Eremenko withdrew because of a Covid outbreak at their rink. Then there's Anastasia Shpilevaya, who was in the hospital with covid and whose partner left her because of it
Anna, Tarasova, and Aliev (though I can't find an article for him) all have pneumonia and Khodykin had an acute respiratory infection.
Edit: Liza is sick now too

 

[Flying Feijoa]

I only remember hearing about 4 athletes, Zahorski who got it during the offseason (so is any part of her skating career really to blame for that infection?), Morozov, Medvedeva and Zhilina, that's not exactly a massive number of skaters.

Also Dmitrii Kozlovskii, Alexander Galliamov, Shevchenko/Eremenko (and most of the Svinin/Zhuk coaching team), Anastasia Shpilevaya (who retired because of it - she seems to be one of the unlucky young ones who get lingering severe symptoms). In general, it seems to have spread quite quickly through the major ice dance and pairs training groups.

I think you have to look at how the Asia-Pacific region is handling things. Remember they had SARS (something that actually killed a lot of people it infected, 10%) so they're a bit better at striking a balance between containment and not freaking out.

ETA: just saw the post above

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Ultimately, recklessness is recklessness, no matter by whom. Someone else mentioned JSF and it’s true that they’re reckless too with their insistence on having a competition with spectators. But at least the crowd wore masks properly there.

Side note, Japan is a really good case study to show how masks can reduce transmission IRL. They've had remarkably few safety measures since the start of the pandemic, despite being one of the first countries outside China to experience an outbreak. Since social distancing wasn't really a thing there, the only explanation I can think of is high mask-wearing compliance.

I think Skate America made a few weird decisions like having skaters wear masks in the KnC *while alone* (of course, if they weren't alone, then masks would be a must). However, having no spectators was necessary in the American context because 1. community transmission is extremely high there, 2. many Americans don't wear masks properly and 3. contact tracing is inadequate. NHK's safety measures (with spectators) were probably appropriate IMO since the local situation differs from the US on all 3 points, while Russia's situation is closer to the US than Japan, which is why some of us think RusFed's safety policies are inadequate.

However, to present the situation as 'lock down or get on with life' is a false dichotomy. I'm part of a hospital (not clinical, just the research division) and we get on with life as usual, just with masks and without office parties. I don't advocate for a suspension of competition, just adherence to the following rules:

• All coaches/officials/skaters wear a surgical mask at all times unless on the ice (cloth masks are too variable in style to be safe in close quarters). Older coaches like Moskvina should wear N95s (protect wearer). Tape the mask over the nose of people with big or slippery noses (like Plushy).
• Skaters or coaches from different training bubbles should not come within a 2m distance *unless* wearing masks (then the risk is acceptably lowered).
• No banquets, because eating requires taking the mask off near people outside your bubble. Unless anyone fancies open-air banquets with 2-person tables spaced 2 m apart (which must be a joy in the Russian winter).
• Spectators at 20% capacity and to sit with 4 empty seats (~1.5 m) between each spectator, regardless of whether they're from the same household (because contact tracing is harder for the public, and it's hard to regulate what type of mask they wear if any)

Those very minor measures don't interfere with the running of competitions. They don't eliminate transmission, but would be a lot better than what's happening now.

 

[Edwin]

According to RIA Sport, Tuktamysheva fell ill and will most likely not start in the 5th stage of Russian Cup.

Туктамышева с большой вероятностью пропустит этап КР в Москве

Фигуристка Елизавета Туктамышева с высокой долей вероятности пропустит этап Кубка России в Москве из-за болезни, сообщил РИА Новости президент Федерации... РИА Новости Спорт, 03.12.2020

rsport.ria.ru

" Yes, most likely, she will miss the stage in Moscow due to illness, she will not (compete). Coronavirus? I am not authorized to say such things. " FFKKR President Gorshkov. Positive test result confirmed.

Елизавета Туктамышева не выступит на этапе Кубка России в Москве

Чемпионка мира и Европы в женском одиночном катании Елизавета Туктамышева не выступит на пятом этапе Кубка России в Москве. Результаты тестирования на COVID-19 спортсменки дали положительный

www.fsrussia.ru

Preliminary list of competitors already altered, now there are 9 remaining competitors. Anastasiya Gulyakova and Mikhail Kolyada have withdrawn too.

Mishin comments:

" What kind of illness? And this, you know, is an intimate affair for everyone. Dima Aliyev also withdrew, but his illness was not immediately named. Nowadays they are embarrassed to name it. And he has been ill for a long time. Lisa is not at the rink. There is Misha Kolyada, who successfully jumps quadruple Toeloop. "

Мишин прокомментировал снятие Туктамышевой с пятого этапа Кубка России

Тренер российской фигуристки Елизаветы Туктамышевой Алексей Мишин в разговоре с «СЭ» подтвердил снятие подопечной с пятого этапа Кубка России, который пройдет в Москве 5 — 8 декабря.

sport-express.ru

 

[Vilord]

According to RIA Sport, Tuktamysheva fell ill and will most likely not start in the 5th stage of Russian Cup.

Туктамышева с большой вероятностью пропустит этап КР в Москве

Фигуристка Елизавета Туктамышева с высокой долей вероятности пропустит этап Кубка России в Москве из-за болезни, сообщил РИА Новости президент Федерации... РИА Новости Спорт, 03.12.2020

rsport.ria.ru

" Yes, most likely, she will miss the stage in Moscow due to illness, she will not (compete). Coronavirus? I am not authorized to say such things. " FFKKR President Gorshkov

Елизавета Туктамышева не выступит на этапе Кубка России в Москве

Чемпионка мира и Европы в женском одиночном катании Елизавета Туктамышева не выступит на пятом этапе Кубка России в Москве. Результаты тестирования на COVID-19 спортсменки дали положительный

www.fsrussia.ru

Positive test result confirmed.

Mishin comments:

" What kind of illness? And this, you know, is an intimate affair for everyone. Dima Aliyev also withdrew, but his illness was not immediately named. Nowadays they are embarrassed to name it. And he has been ill for a long time. Lisa is not at the rink. There is Misha Kolyada, who successfully jumps quadruple Toeloop. "

Мишин прокомментировал снятие Туктамышевой с пятого этапа Кубка России

Тренер российской фигуристки Елизаветы Туктамышевой Алексей Мишин в разговоре с «СЭ» подтвердил снятие подопечной с пятого этапа Кубка России, который пройдет в Москве 5 — 8 декабря.

sport-express.ru

Oh no! I hope its not serious. Most likely is probably corona at this point (Since Sambo was rumored to have it at Rostelecom) but lets hope neither she nor Mishin gets seriously ill and she can come back to Nationals.
Skating in only one event means she like Medvedeva and Sinitsyna wont qualify for Nationals but since she won rostelecom there should be no questions about subbing her in I would think.

 

[vorravorra]

Rest assured, the Russian Fed will always find some way to screw over Liza if possible. It wouldn't surprise me for them to put together some last minute competition to give other skaters another chance to earn a spot over Tuk.

It's been confirmed that Liza has corona.

It's up to the coach whether they want to confirm a positive coronavirus test or hide behind "fever" and "pneumonia". Some are honest, some aren't.

 

[Edwin]

Attending the Rostelekom banquet and/or Leonova's party with the already infected but still asymptomatic Aliyev and quite probably others from rinks where people are infected ..

Yet still Kogan and Gorshkov renounce/deny Hersch' concerns and dismiss them as 'mind your own business while we have our affairs in order', LOL

Even more LOL, TAT's comments from yesterday:

“ We don't have to adjust our schedule of championships and other competitions to the health of athletes. Whatever flu we have, coronavirus or something like that, we have our own schedule, according to which we work. We take care of ourselves in order to to protect ourselves as much as possible from illness, but adjusting the competition to the health of athletes is unprofessional.

Why on earth should something be canceled? Let the athletes and coaches abstain from banquets, let them sit in their rooms or relax at home, prepare for the next tournaments."

Тарасова: непрофессионально подстраивать турниры под здоровье спортсменов

График соревнований не должен подстраиваться под состояние здоровье спортсменов, считает заслуженный тренер России Татьяна Тарасова. РИА Новости Спорт, 02.12.2020

rsport.ria.ru

 

[vorravorra]

Attending the Rostelekom banquet and/or Leonova's party with the already infected but still asymptomatic Aliyev and quite probably others from rinks where people are infected ..

Yet still Kogan and Gorshkov renounce/deny Hersch' concerns and dismiss them as 'mind your own business while we have our affairs in order', LOL

It doesn't look like Aliev was at the banquet.

 

[Edwin]

Leonova had her birthday party November 23 where Aliyev was a guest, amongst other friends.

Леонова чувствует себя хорошо после общения с заболевшим Алиевым

Серебряный призер чемпионата мира-2012 по фигурному катанию Алена Леонова сообщила РИА Новости, что чувствует себя нормально после встречи с чемпионом Европы в... РИА Новости Спорт, 02.12.2020

rsport.ria.ru

 

[BabySloth]

This is so irresponsible omg. And Tarasova's comment....Do they think they are invincible or what?
Half of their best skaters are ill 3 weeks before Nationals...