2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 714 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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You don't think Anna skating with a confirmed fever and refusing to have her temperature checked wasn't breaking the rules?

It was! If we accept Anna had the right to decide whether to withdraw or not, then we must also accept that she broke the rules regarding temperature. Which frankly is disappointing, I mean seriously, what example is this setting? A very bad one.

The Coaching team isn't much better, posting a glowing post on Instagram about how they're the greatest and overcame adversity (not like that loser Aliona K and he fraud of coach, I guess).

No, no they did not, they deliberately exposed hundreds to an extremely infectious and possibly long lasting illness. Bra-freaking-vo.

Answer me this, if Plushenko had done this, if Sasha had been the one recovering from pneumonia, running a temperature, yet still won would you think it was so great? Or would you - rightfully - think he was at best, stunningly irresponsible or at worst a complete monster?
Simply because there wasn't a rule that would require that. It was explained numerous times already, why people still keep repeating nonsense. And BTW there is generally no rule that wouldn't allow an athlete to perform with a fever anywhere. First make the rule, then claim it was broken. The rule was to have negative test and that was kept.

Do not transfer it to Plushenko-Tutberidze level, that's worthless, I clearly say I absolutely don't care what he would or wouldn't do.
 
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You don't think Anna skating with a confirmed fever and refusing to have her temperature checked wasn't breaking the rules?

It was! If we accept Anna had the right to decide whether to withdraw or not, then we must also accept that she broke the rules regarding temperature. Which frankly is disappointing, I mean seriously, what example is this setting? A very bad one.

The Coaching team isn't much better, posting a glowing post on Instagram about how they're the greatest and overcame adversity (not like that loser Aliona K and he fraud of coach, I guess).

No, no they did not, they deliberately exposed hundreds to an extremely infectious and possibly long lasting illness. Bra-freaking-vo.

Answer me this, if Plushenko had done this, if Sasha had been the one recovering from pneumonia, running a temperature, yet still won would you think it was so great? Or would you - rightfully - think he was at best, stunningly irresponsible or at worst a complete monster?
Frankly, I don't hold any of these figure skating coaches in high regard. However, it terms of who is ultimately responsible it is RF. Frankly, they shouldn't rely on athletes and coaches to " do the right thing." Athletes and coaches just want to win at , perhaps, any cost. RF should have made strict rules and enforced them.
 
Who confirmed that Anna had a fever during skate?
She had a fever while practicing, so perhaps I should amend it to say she placed the 5 other girls in her group at danger.

I was more than willing to defend Anna against suggestions she was faking, but to skate with a fever? During a pandemic? After seeing what COVID did to Zhenya Med. It was very, very, very irresponsible of her.
 
Simply because there wasn't a rule that would require that. It was explained numerous times already, why people still keep repeating nonsense. And BTW there is generally no rule that wouldn't allow an athlete to perform with a fever. First make the rule, than claim it was broken.
Well then words fail me.

The Russian Figure Skating Fed is in fact made up of the greatest group of utter imbicles that have ever made up an organisation.

Like fever is the number one symptom of a deadly pandemic everyone in the world knows this!

And they're like "Oh, let's not test for that one symptom."

The whole lot of them should lose their jobs and be charged with reckless endangerment.

I'd love to see their attempt at a defence, tbh.
 
You don't think Anna skating with a confirmed fever and refusing to have her temperature checked wasn't breaking the rules?

It was! If we accept Anna had the right to decide whether to withdraw or not, then we must also accept that she broke the rules regarding temperature. Which frankly is disappointing, I mean seriously, what example is this setting? A very bad one.

The Coaching team isn't much better, posting a glowing post on Instagram about how they're the greatest and overcame adversity (not like that loser Aliona K and he fraud of coach, I guess).

No, no they did not, they deliberately exposed hundreds to an extremely infectious and possibly long lasting illness. Bra-freaking-vo.

Answer me this, if Plushenko had done this, if Sasha had been the one recovering from pneumonia, running a temperature, yet still won would you think it was so great? Or would you - rightfully - think he was at best, stunningly irresponsible or at worst a complete monster?
Wether it was responsible is a different question than if it broke the rules?

Was it responsible? No. Did it break rules? Also no.

Anna DIDN'T break the rules because the only rule that we know for sure is a negative COVID test. Anna had that. Plus it seems it ISN'T a rule that you can't skate with a fever because Sofia did at test skates (which Mishin allowed btw.) Which quite frankly if you want the bad example of skating with a fever, it isn't Anna here, it's actually the precedent established by allowing Sofia to do the same at test skates.

For the record I don't think it was a wise decision. But it doesn't look it broke the rules. So NO I DON'T think it was "so great".

However, also for the record, Plushy allowed Sasha to skate injured again here when he himself said she needed injections to make it through her skate and has a "serious trauma".

Quite frankly, both and Mishin (with Liza and Sofia at test skates) are "stunningly irresponsible" but none have broken the rules, as things stand.
 
But that's the whole point. The wording is what matters.

Goshov didn't definitively state it. The only way to definitively (without doubt) state COVID is to confirm a positive COVID test which no one, including Goshov, has ever said happened. (In fact, the opposite is true - a negative COVID test was confirmed by Anna, her parents, her coaches, and Goshov himself.)

So, no one has definitely said she DOES/DID have COVID.
Let me put it this way. Goshov definitively said she had had COVID which means he did say it in an authoritative manner and using grammar implying he knew it for sure and that was his definitive opinion. Still, stayed short of substantiating his claim. So we do not know if she definitively had COVID. Neither do we know she definitively did not have it. It was his definitive opinion but there's a wide field left for doubts going both ways. None of us saw any test, either positive or negative. We are in no position to have any definitive opinion of our own in the matter. We are just the public, the audience, on the receiving end of opinions and statements made by others and in no position to investigate them ourselves. All we can say is that they are contradictory.
Now, I'm tired and let me just bow out of this very interesting discussion, thank you :)
 
She had a fever while practicing, so perhaps I should amend it to say she placed the 5 other girls in her group at danger.

I was more than willing to defend Anna against suggestions she was faking, but to skate with a fever? During a pandemic? After seeing what COVID did to Zhenya Med. It was very, very, very irresponsible of her.
If this is true, I do not think she cares AT ALL. She is winning medals and Russian national titles with horrific technique and does not even try to improve! And with what confidence she speaks...!!! It is like she is saying:"Oh, look at me, I am the best!"
 
Well then words fail me.

The Russian Figure Skating Fed is in fact made up of the greatest group of utter imbicles that have ever made up an organisation.

Like fever is the number one symptom of a deadly pandemic everyone in the world knows this!

And they're like "Oh, let's not test for that one symptom."

The whole lot of them should lose their jobs and be charged with reckless endangerment.

I'd love to see their attempt at a defence, tbh.
I agree that the RusFed is made up of imbiciles! The fact is it SHOULD be a rule. But it doesn't seem like it is - so Anna DIDN'T break the rules. In fact, even according to some documents, it's even unclear that a COVID test is a requirement for some events.

It's their reckless endangerment that's meant that the whole national team got injured/ill.
 
Well then words fail me.

The Russian Figure Skating Fed is in fact made up of the greatest group of utter imbicles that have ever made up an organisation.

Like fever is the number one symptom of a deadly pandemic everyone in the world knows this!

And they're like "Oh, let's not test for that one symptom."

The whole lot of them should lose their jobs and be charged with reckless endangerment.

I'd love to see their attempt at a defence, tbh.
And about a million of other causes. How many times I had fever in my life? Countless times. Was it covid? Not at all, naturally. OMG people stay sane, it looks like it's not in fact covid itself, but the paranoia it causes in people's minds that is more dangerous. Anna was tested for covid, the test was negative both when she had pneumonia and before the competition and that's all we need to know about the covid cause.

Sorry, you recently admitted "in RLT someone else becomes of me" or something like that and I think this is it, because this came too far. Fever means covid, respiratory problems mean covid, actually negative covit test still means ćovid. :rolleye:

I truly don't know why I'm wasting time wich such useless discussion, it's nearly 2 a.m. here, I go to bed.
 
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However, also for the record, Plushy allowed Sasha to skate injured again here when he himself said she needed injections to make it through her skate and has a "serious trauma".
Well great they all suck.

I will say though that whatever injury Sasha has its not contagious. No-one's going to suddenly develop a similar injury by standing in the same room with her.

Anna could have got an exemption from Nats and it wouldn't have hurt her at all, because the last "image" they have of her is winning Stage 2 with a massive score. Sasha on the otherhand had the Rostelecom embarrassment.

The Russian Figure Skating Fed, being the group of jerks they are though, decided to move the goalposts regarding spots, releasing a statement, that Sasha now has to fight for a spot in 3 FURTHER competitions.

How nice of them to clarify this after Sasha competed. If I was Plushy I'd be furious, utterly furious! If they had said that before perhaps he would have withdrawn her, he withdrew Aliona.

If Plushy wants to call for the disbandment of the entire Russian Figure Skating Fed, then I'm all for it.

They're destroying the sport.
 
Sorry, you recently admitted "in RLT someone else becomes of me" or something like that and I think this is it, because this came too far. Fever means covid, respiratory problems mean covid, actually negative covit test still means ćovid. :rolleye:
Because this virus is hugely infectious, have you seen the stats out of the US? Out of the UK?

Yes the flu is a thing, but in a lot of countries right now, COVID has such a tight grip that yes, in fact it probably is more likely that it's that.

I had a fever yesterday actually, thankfully it's gone today. You know what I didn't do while I had it? Run around and possibly expose it to every damn person in my suburb.

It's common sense, although it seems the old saying is true: "For being common, common sense is incredibly uncommon."

But then I'm from a country willing to shut down the entire area I was in over 15 cases. Even then it has still grown to a cluster of 122.
 
Because this virus is hugely infectious, have you seen the stats out of the US? Out of the UK?

Yes the flu is a thing, but in a lot of countries right now, COVID has such a tight grip that yes, in fact it probably is more likely that it's that.

I had a fever yesterday actually, thankfully it's gone today. You know what I didn't do while I had it? Run around and possibly expose it to every damn person in my suburb.

It's common sense, although it seems the old saying is true: "For being common, common sense is incredibly uncommon."

But then I'm from a country willing to shut down the entire area I was in over 15 cases. Even then it has still grown to a cluster of 122.
Common sense says "I have a negative test right here, what more can I do to satisfy you?" Just reply "nothing, you will be always guilty even if I don't have any evidence" and we can go to bed. Good night.
 
Let me put it this way. Goshov definitively said she had COVID which means he did say it in an authoritative manner and using grammar implying he knew it for sure and that was his definitive opinion. Still, stayed short of substantiating his claim. So we do not know if she definitively had COVID. Neither do we know she definitively did not have it. It was his definitive opinion but there's a wide field left for doubts going both ways. None of us saw any test, either positive or negative. We are in no position to have any definitive opinion of our own in the matter. We are just the public, the audience, on the receiving end of opinions and statements made by others and in no position to investigate them ourselves. All we can say is that they are contradictory.
Now, I'm tired and let me just bow out of this very interesting discussion, thank you :)
First of all, an opinion is by definition not definitive it's subjective.

Second of all, the whole point is that we CAN'T say that she definitively had it. It hasn't been substantiated. So saying she's lying about having pneumonia/not having COVID and that reports are inconsistent is false.

There have been no contradictory statements. All statements have said that 1. she has pneumonia, 2. she has a negative COVID test (at nationals), and 3. she has a fever. It's not contradictory for her to have had COVID and pneumonia. It's also not contradictory for her to have not have had COVID and still have had pneumonia. There are even multiple forms of pneumonia (three main forms and various types) and over 30 different causes. It's also not contradictory for her to have a fever and have pneumonia. Fever is a symptom of pneumonia. In fact, it's actually rare to have pneumonia without a fever. It's not even contradictory for her to have gotten COVID after her team was sure she didn't have it due to a false negative or even a later infection.

Thirdly, even just the fact that as even you stated "there's a wide field left for doubts" means that nothing is definitive. Definitive means conclusively.

Finally, actually the only confirmation of COVID tests that have been reported have been negative (at nationals). (Goshov, Anna, her parents, and her coaches all agree here.)
 
She had a fever while practicing, so perhaps I should amend it to say she placed the 5 other girls in her group at danger.

I was more than willing to defend Anna against suggestions she was faking, but to skate with a fever? During a pandemic? After seeing what COVID did to Zhenya Med. It was very, very, very irresponsible of her.

Do you also blame Sofia for skating at test skates with a fever, or even Mishin?

RusFed's requirement was that they test negative for COVID to compete. Anna met that requirement with her negative COVID test. RusFed should've made it a rule to not be able to compete with a fever. And have mandatory checks for all skaters. They didn't, that's on them not Anna.
 
Let me parse the inconsistencies for you.
Prior to the Rostelecom cup, when Scherbakova withdrew, the Tutberidze camp claimed that it was pneumonia and nothing more. They forcefully denied any possibility of Covid-19. Why? Because even the slightest suspicion would have implied that the entire Khrustalny site must be quarantined, thereby also precluding the participation of several of their other skaters in the Rostelecom cup, including Valieva and Zagitova. So their official statement at the time was that they were absolute certain it could NOT have been Covid. Because if they could not rule out that possibility with 100% certainty (or worse, if they knew she had been diagnosed with Covid), they are implicitly responsible for the spread of Covid at Rostelecom.
Fast forward to Russian Nationals. To provide extenuating circumstances for Scherbakova's mistakes in the SP, aggrandize her win, and push the 'heroism' narrative, camp Tutberidze made public statements along the lines that she skated with 38 C fever, still not fully recovered from pneumonia, and refused to let her fever checked. Naturally, this prompted the legitimate question of why Shcherbakova broke the rules, as high fever is a typical Covid symptom, which is why skaters with high fevers are not allowed to compete as a precaution measure. Given that they previously had stated that she did not have Covid, her high fever implied that she could potentially be infected at that moment, and by entering the clean zone there was a risk she may have spread the infection to other skaters and/or coaches. When they realized the blunder, Gorshkov tried to do some damage control by making a public statement reproduced in the article that was linked by other posters above. In that statement, it was claimed that Shcherbakova in fact had had Covid "a long time ago", and hence that by competing with a fever at Nationals she did not in fact endanger the health of other athletes, as they were certain she had had the disease before and was no longer a potential threat to other participants.
Therefore the following scenarios are possible:
(1) They lied pre-Rostelecom and were in fact certain that she had Covid, in which case they bear a huge responsibility for sending skaters that had been in contact with her to Rostelecom and infecting several athletes like Liza T, Aliev etc.
(2) They lied in the post-Nationals statements when they claimed she had already had Covid a long time ago, and in fact they allowed Shcherbakova to skate despite showing a major Covid symptom, in which case they put Russian Nationals participants at risk.
(3) They were never certain whether or not she had Covid at any given time point, so they lied both pre-Rosetelecom and at Nationals, in which case they endangered the health of other athletes at both events.
What is certainly NOT possible is that they could have told the truth on all occasions, as this would imply that they were 100% certain that Scherbakova both had and did not have the disease in November -- which is a logical impossibility. Ergo they must have lied on at least one occasion.
Q.E.D.

What on earth are you saying? TT lied and lied and lied?

I hope we dont go through this next season. Its too draining.

Anna KV and Sasha were amazing to skate so great amidst craziness drama and a covid world.
 
Do you also blame Sofia for skating at test skates with a fever, or even Mishin?

RusFed's requirement was that they test negative for COVID to compete. They should've made it a rule to not be able to compete with a fever. And have mandatory checks for all skaters. They didn't, that's on them not Anna.
I sure do!

That was idiotic. Thankfully Sofia seems not to have had COVID, but once again the recklessness is off the scale.

Everyone though is claiming Anna is a smart girl...but what she did was incredibly stupid and selfish. Sure she got her third title, but at what cost? No-one even knew she was having fevers until yesterday! She could have passed on whatever she has to anyone. It might not be COVID sure, but whatever it was, it gave her pneumonia. I recently discovered there's a pneumonia vaccine (my father recently got the shot), I always thought it was a side effect of another infection, not one in itself.

WTH?

Imagine if you're Sasha and you ended up with it? How would you feel knowing that your old teammate and friend basically gave no **** for yours or anyone else's health?
 
She had a fever while practicing, so perhaps I should amend it to say she placed the 5 other girls in her group at danger.
What is the source to this claim? All I can find ends up in a single journalist article https://rsport.ria.ru/20201227/scherbakova-1591097100.html, all others reference chain ends up with this and only this article.
And this article language is ... well... like a novel. F.e. author is explaining Anna thoughts and feeling like a telepath, also telling how Anna "manipulated" RusFed, trainers and even parents and so on.

And even there journalist is telling that after Anna had started recovering from pneumonia it was a regular pattern that her temperature rises at the evening. Basically what was month ago.
He is NOT telling about 38 at short program, only that she had such pattern some time ago.

So I wonder is there any legitimate source that Anna skated short program with 38? Source that at least quoted somebody who can have such knowledge (not another journalist or Gorshkov)?
 
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