2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[colormyworld240]

Extremem flexibility is great, but honestly, it's not essential. Good spins can be done even if the skater isn't particularly flexible, like Higuchi or Yuna Kim or even Liza Osokina when she's not injured. Again, flexibility isn't even a spin GOE nor a choreo sequence GOE. Even Sasha's flexibility level is fine. Her flying camel is pretty good, her other spins, when done well, are also good. On the other hand we often have uber flexible girls who lose control of their spins and travel a lot (we all love Yulia's 2014 Team Event FS but that last spin traveled A LOT).

Maybe not flexibility in isolation, but I find that flexibility and rotation speed go hand in hand most of the time. A good example is Sasha - she's not a slow spinner overall and the rotation speed on her sit spins is quite good. However, every time she goes into the Biellmann, she slows down a lot, and I would classify that part of her spin as quite slow. It's probably because she struggles to hit the position because of her lack of flexibility.

It's much more difficult to centre spins when they're faster and more flexible, which is why it's so impressive why Yulia was so impressive (apart from the team event final spin but I'm pretty sure everyone has messed up a spin at some point). Generally, her spins were not only the fastest and most flexible, but also the most centred. Just one example is her layback from the same skate.

 

[Vilord]

From ISU Communication 2334:

FOR + 1 : 1 bullet
FOR + 2 : 2 bullets
FOR + 3 : 3 bullets
FOR + 4 : 4 bullets
FOR + 5 : 5 or more bullets
FOR + 4 and +5 THE FIRST THREE bullets highlighted in bold must be present

That's how I interpret those lines. But I guess I could see how people could interpret it differently.

What the rules doesnt say but what most judges Ive heard discuss this is that getting a +5 should be difficult (because otherwise how do we differentiate from the best). So to actually get a +5 you need to hit at least 5 bullets but you also need something a litte bit extra to make the element feel special. This is something that is hard to put into words in a rule book but just like getting a 10.0 in PCS a +5 GOE should mean that the element is the best imaginable (or at least close to it).

 

[Novalis]

Tsibinova and Lagutova already pictured on a plane to Krasnoyarsk (Tsibinova's IG stories). The first traveller picture is surely the symbolic start of this competition

Edit: Technically incorrect. The picture seems to be from the airport and not the plane, but never mind.

 

[Novalis]

Lena Radionova choreographing a new program "Carmen" to Alyona Prineva (the girl who finished third at the at the younger age Moscow Novice Champs):

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKs6Hh4jp89/

 

[[email protected]]

Do you live in Krasnyorak? You've got the go and see the battle of the Sofias. Who knows maybe Veronika or Adelia will win.

Even without KV Maya and Dasha this will be better than any junior world championship we would have had this season.

On a side note Sam are people in Russia taking vitamin C vitamin D3 and zinc every day to fight off covid?
I'm glad you're feeling better.

Thank you, coronavirus has been easy on my family so far. I had cough for several days and lost smells for a month. No we live in Moscow and in Sochi. The Cup final will be in Moscow. The Russians take vitamins regularly - it comes from Soviet times when fruits and vegetables were sold mostly during summer time. But I have not heard of vitamin consumption surge due to coronavirus.

 

[RatedPG]

I wonder what Russia will do for Junior Grand Prix circuit this year? Will they only send their top 7 best figure skaters to battle it out internationally into two slots, with one competing in the home event OR will they assign 6 athletes for two slots and 3 athletes to one slot with the first performance at the Grand Prix determining which athlete gets the second spot in the latter half of the season.
It looks like you need to make sure you are in the top 8 to ensure yourself a Grand Prix spot.
We will have the two Sofia’s most likely battling it out for the top spot. Then, I think we have Liza B., Adeliya P (my fav), Zhilina battling it out in spots 3-5. With Osokina, Murayevia, Ovchinikova, Gorbachyova, Latushkina rounding out the top ten. So many talented ladies. The Russian Junior National Championships is the World Junior Championships, in my eyes.
Also, I wonder how well Frolova and Ksenia T. will do at this championship. I think they are also aiming for a Junior Grand Prix spot as well.

 

[readernick]

Maybe not flexibility in isolation, but I find that flexibility and rotation speed go hand in hand most of the time.

Rather disagree with this statement. Keegan Messing has some of the best spins in the world in terms of centering and speed, and some of the worst flexibility among skaters (not compared to the general population). Bradie Tennell isn't particularly flexible (She is compared to me, but not to other skaters) but her speed and centering are also some of the best among ladies. I don't see a relationship between flexibility, speed, and centering. Skaters who work hard to improve their spins will likely spin quickly and be centered. However, flexibility is (somewhat) genetic so while it can be improved with hard work it is not completely dependent on how hard you work to improve. Sasha likely doesn't have particularly great spins because she prefers jumping and doesn't practice them enough.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Rather disagree with this statement. Keegan Messing has some of the best spins in the world in terms of centering and speed, and some of the worst flexibility among skaters (not compared to the general population). Bradie Tennell isn't particularly flexible (She is compared to me, but not to other skaters) but her speed and centering are also some of the best among ladies. I don't see a relationship between flexibility, speed, and centering. Skaters who work hard to improve their spins will likely spin quickly and be centered. However, flexibility is (somewhat) genetic so while it can be improved with hard work it is not completely dependent on how hard you work to improve. Sasha likely doesn't have particularly great spins because she prefers jumping and doesn't practice them enough.

We had a thread on best spinners with worse flexibility and I nominated Patrick Chan.

The issue is that you need strength to perform quads without resulting in long term injury, and working strength intensely at same time as flexibility results in it being harder to become flexible (not impossible but harder)

 

[flanker]

I wonder what Russia will do for Junior Grand Prix circuit this year? Will they only send their top 7 best figure skaters to battle it out internationally into two slots, with one competing in the home event OR will they assign 6 athletes for two slots and 3 athletes to one slot with the first performance at the Grand Prix determining which athlete gets the second spot in the latter half of the season.
It looks like you need to make sure you are in the top 8 to ensure yourself a Grand Prix spot.
We will have the two Sofia’s most likely battling it out for the top spot. Then, I think we have Liza B., Adeliya P (my fav), Zhilina battling it out in spots 3-5. With Osokina, Murayevia, Ovchinikova, Gorbachyova, Latushkina rounding out the top ten. So many talented ladies. The Russian Junior National Championships is the World Junior Championships, in my eyes.
Also, I wonder how well Frolova and Ksenia T. will do at this championship. I think they are also aiming for a Junior Grand Prix spot as well.

First JGP spot usually goes to skaters who did well at junior nationals, occationally who made an improvement during summer. For instance Aliona Kostornaia impressed at Moscow Cup in september 2017 which ensured a spot for her despite being only 16th at previous junior nationals. As for the second spot it usually depends on how skaters perform at earlier JGP stages. Those who have the chance to qualify for JGPF (means finished 1st or 2nd, occationally 3rd) get the second entry.

 

[Scott512]

Thank you, coronavirus has been easy on my family so far. I had cough for several days and lost smells for a month. No we live in Moscow and in Sochi. The Cup final will be in Moscow. The Russians take vitamins regularly - it comes from Soviet times when fruits and vegetables were sold mostly during summer time. But I have not heard of vitamin consumption surge due to coronavirus.

Thanks for the info. Keep taking the vitamins because that may have actually help you Sam when you got Corona virus. It could have been worse.

I do wonder if the Russian say your skaters are given many of the key vitamins to take to Ward off Corona virus. Or is that responsibility of themselves in their parents?

Well we fans are finally going to get some competitions coming in the next few weeks. Finally.

 

[Dawn825]

Fun fact: a Russian lady has won the last ten JGPFs, and never the same girl twice
I should probably know this, but do top countries always get two spots at other GP events and 3 at their own?
Also, when does the junior ladies SP start?

 

[Scott512]

Fun fact: a Russian lady has won the last ten JGPFs, and never the same girl twice
I should probably know this, but do top countries always get two spots at other GP events and 3 at their own?
Also, when does the junior ladies SP start?

It's a joke that Russia does not get more spots on the junior or senior level with the girls and ladies. And they would have won how many junior world titles in a row amongst the girls if polina did not take ill one year? Someone needed to pick up the slack for pollina but didnt. I think it was Stasya but am not sure.

 

[Dawn825]

nm found the times

 

[Vilord]

Fun fact: a Russian lady has won the last ten JGPFs, and never the same girl twice
I should probably know this, but do top countries always get two spots at other GP events and 3 at their own?
Also, when does the junior ladies SP start?

Host nations allways have 3 spots no matter what.

At other JGP events the number of spots is determined by the results at the previous junior Worlds. Top 3 nations 2 spots at every event, Then its 1 entry (I think its top 10) at every event followed by 1 enty in 5 events then 1 entry in 4 events and then I think everyone else gets one entry at 3 events (participated) or 2 entries if you didnt participate

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

I wonder what Russia will do for Junior Grand Prix circuit this year?

I wonder if there even will be a Junior Grand Prix circuit this year...

Will they only send their top 7 best figure skaters to battle it out internationally into two slots, with one competing in the home event OR will they assign 6 athletes for two slots and 3 athletes to one slot with the first performance at the Grand Prix determining which athlete gets the second spot in the latter half of the season.

They usually do the latter, which I think is a better strategy most of the times. Russia is really so spoiled when it comes to giving JGPs to ladies or pairs. They really can't go wrong with the upcoming crop (IMO). When you parcel out the spots one by one, waiting to see if the first result is worth giving a second JGP, the chances of there being more Russian ladies at the JGPF become greater. Besides JGP spots are always given out a few weeks before the event so there really isn't any excuse to not wait and see how the ladies perform.

I think a mix of Russian Junior Nationals and Test Skates (or whatever summer event the non-invited girls go to) decide the JGP spots. This Junior Nationals is obviously quite different from the previous ones, because usually the upcoming novices don't get the take over the entire podium. Like in 2019, Daria finished 10th overall but still went to test skates, and Maiia didn't even qualify (due to injury) but she still got to go to test skates as well. Usually I think being in the top 8 who want to compete junior is a safe bet. So I guess this year a top 8 placement would be preferential (unless Tsibinova and Frolova end up in the top 8 and then decide not to do the JGP next season, in which case it might extend to the next two highest scoring ladies who are going to compete junior).

 

[flanker]

Fun fact: a Russian lady has won the last ten JGPFs, and never the same girl twice
I should probably know this, but do top countries always get two spots at other GP events and 3 at their own?
Also, when does the junior ladies SP start?

Host nations allways have 3 spots no matter what.

At other JGP events the number of spots is determined by the results at the previous junior Worlds. Top 3 nations 2 spots at every event, Then its 1 entry (I think its top 10) at every event followed by 1 enty in 5 events then 1 entry in 4 events and then I think everyone else gets one entry at 3 events (participated) or 2 entries if you didnt participate

I will only add that there is little difference in pairs, where there is one more entry for a country with gold and silver at junior worlds, that's why Russians have 3 pairs at JGP stages and 4 at home event.

 

[Dawn825]

Top 3 nations...would that be Russia, the US, and Japan for the ladies? And Korea would only get one for each event?

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Top 3 nations...would that be Russia, the US, and Japan for the ladies? And Korea would only get one for each event?

Korean ladies would get 2 spots since they finished 5+6 at junior worlds. The japanese ladies finished 11 and 14.

 

[Dawn825]

Korean ladies would get 2 spots since they finished 5+6 at junior worlds. The japanese ladies finished 11 and 14.

You're right, my bad. I was looking at 2019 cuz I completely forgot junior worlds actually happened last year.

 

[colormyworld240]

Rather disagree with this statement. Keegan Messing has some of the best spins in the world in terms of centering and speed, and some of the worst flexibility among skaters (not compared to the general population). Bradie Tennell isn't particularly flexible (She is compared to me, but not to other skaters) but her speed and centering are also some of the best among ladies. I don't see a relationship between flexibility, speed, and centering. Skaters who work hard to improve their spins will likely spin quickly and be centered. However, flexibility is (somewhat) genetic so while it can be improved with hard work it is not completely dependent on how hard you work to improve. Sasha likely doesn't have particularly great spins because she prefers jumping and doesn't practice them enough.

It's different for the men because they don't tend to include the positions that require a lot of flexibility. Bradie is not extremely flexible in that she doesn't have hyperextension, but she is flexible enough where she can hit her Biellmann and other positions without struggle. It'd probably be a different story if she tried for the hyperextended positions. Of course there is a relationship between flexibility and other spin components like speed and centring if you're including positions that require great flexibility, how could there not be? I don't think Sasha's spins are a result of not practicing enough. The sit portions of her spins are extremely well done with great centring and speed, actually every position is except the ones that require more flexibility. If she went the same route as Keegan and ditched those positions, she'd actually have great spins overall. That's one of the first things I noticed when she was in juniors.

There is a genetic component to flexibility, as there is for jumping, gliding, and everything else. That's the whole point. We've seen many skaters under the same coaches with the same training who have drastically different abilities and strengths.