2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[JazzUp]

I don't really think that Laishev can spend state money like that.

Indeed. I believe he: a) can't because he won't get it (the amount allocated to each national team member) from RusFed a second time - it was spent on TeamTut's time from beginning of the season till Novogorsk; on 2 extra programmes and 2 dresses that AoP gave her and P's time (he's to be paid as a coach hired by Sambo for Kostornaya, state fee per hours spent) and her travels; there's peanuts (if any) left of that amount.
and b) won't get it from RusFed since it's not for her training (and 'buying out athletes' is not an entry RusFed has in their budget).

 

[Fluture]

well Alena did a mistake, it’s not for her previous coach to pay for her bad decisions.

Obviously not and I don‘t think anybody seriously expects Sambo or Eteri to pay. Even if they wanted to (which I‘m certain they don‘t lol), they couldn‘t.

Which means Aliona is well and thoroughly trapped. So much for this one. I still don‘t get Rudkovskaya‘s perspective in all of this, though I might not be savvy/business like enough for it. Sure, she‘ll get her money back but wouldn‘t the loss of reputation weigh harder? Which parent would decide to send their kidnthere if that‘s the price you pay if it doesn‘t work out and you leave? I‘ve said a lot about Tutberidze‘s behaviour when her students leave her but at least they‘ve always been free to do so. At Plushenko‘s you get the smear campaign plus the financial issues/Rudkovskaya‘s wrath. Nah. If I was a parent or a student, I‘d stay as far away from that school as possible.

 

[yume]

It's certainly interesting though, I went back to read Flanker's arguments ( ) about contracts, and it says some Russians themselves wanted contacts to be established. What are the opinions now? Also, what clauses protected Kostornaia, and what protected her coaches? Why is Rudkovskaya just demanding payment, what was violated? I do hope Kostornaia can at least get a lawyer, if needed.

I'm for contracts. Coaches invest time and sometimes money on skaters. They shouldn't be let down like that.
Just that those contracts have to be yearly at most. Not more.

 

[Lechat]

It's certainly interesting though, I went back to read Flanker's arguments ( ) about contracts, and it says some Russians themselves wanted contacts to be established. What are the opinions now? Also, what clauses protected Kostornaia, and what protected her coaches? Why is Rudkovskaya just demanding payment, what was violated? I do hope Kostornaia can at least get a lawyer, if needed.

This is a typical business agreement like I said before, if your employer paid for your training and you want to leave, you have to refund him. This is why they made you sign a clause.

 

[Skatesocs]

I'm for contracts. Coaches invest time and sometimes money on skaters. They shouldn't be let down like that.
Just that those contracts have to be yearly at most. Not more.

Per-season basis makes sense to me, too. I guess I am not sure what was even violated (and we'll never know due to NDA), but also like... surely Yana going off on media is also some sort of violation? If Kostornaia isn't released yet, I can't see why anyone can make a mess about her like that... Anyway, I hope in the future the athletes make sure to have their contracts reviewed by attorneys before they sign them. And of course I hope the penalties Kostornaia is/will be facing don't damage her career.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Even her 3As back won't necessarily save her. It helped last year because:
(1) She was number 1 in Russia - and Anna and Sasha weren't. She won't be number number 1 now or even next year even with her 3As.
(2) She still needed Anna and Sasha to fall.
(3) She had a PCS advantage on them. She won't again. Anna had already almost caught her last year. Anna's the 3x national champion now.

And that's only against Anna and Sasha. There's also Kamila. Kamila has a higher tech content than both of them, as it stands - both can upgrade - and has a solid 3A. Aliona's 3A (if she gets it back) is completely negated by Kamila's. Kamila also has a 3A and to 4Ts that she can land cleanly in the FS. Aliona only had at her peak 2 3As. And yes, Aliona can upgrade but so can Kamila (and the others). Aliona needs to upgrade to even get back her 3As. Kamila already has her 3As and 4Ts (and is working on a 4S).

I'm not arguing that Kamila, Anna, and Sasha aren't far ahead of Alena at this point. I disagree that Alena is out of the equation for a spot on the Olympic team. Alena's competitors are not immune from seeing a drop in form in the next 12 months, and you saying her 3A won't help assumes that Anna and Sasha continue hitting multiple quad LPs and I don't think that's a guarantee.

 

[Lechat]

I'm for contracts. Coaches invest time and sometimes money on skaters. They shouldn't be let down like that.
Just that those contracts have to be yearly at most. Not more.

I agree and skaters have to understand the importance of their own decision. They can’t switch coaches when they want because something didn’t work.

 

[Fantik]

Depends if you are talking about the athletic skill or artistic performance of what we see.

Yuzuru Hanyu, Yuna Kim, John Curry are the ones who had both. Toller, yes, was not always consistent but certainly the one who was greatly loved. I thought that Aliona could have attained same level, if...

 

[chasingneverland]

I will be routing for Anna and Yuzuru

​

Yeah, they're my favs!! (And I have a bit of a soft spot for Rika too)

 

[chasingneverland]

At this point i'm hoping that she goes to Eteri or CSKA. Panova doesn't have enough political weight. With some politicking, she can fight for a olys/worlds spot.

Eteri definitely doesn't have room for another girl aiming for the Olympics haha.

Especially one who doesn't know the system yet. At some point politicking will result in rapidly diminishing returns haha.

 

[chasingneverland]

Depends if you are talking about the athletic skill or artistic performance of what we see. There are possibly some skaters who might have some universal love for their performance, based on what I've seen on this board and comments on video performances neither Shcherbakova or Kostornaia fall in that category

I think also some of it is time. Anna's only 16 and Aliona's only 17. Both are skaters currently and skating against other people's favourites.

Depending on how their careers go, as well enhanced by the fondness of nostalgia over time that may change.

EDIT: Also most tend to be the sole champion and hope of their country. That isn't the case with the Russian's and has much more to do with the state of figure skating in Russia than their particular talents.

 

[nussnacker]

Obviously not and I don‘t think anybody seriously expects Sambo or Eteri to pay. Even if they wanted to (which I‘m certain they don‘t lol), they couldn‘t.

Which means Aliona is well and thoroughly trapped. So much for this one. I still don‘t get Rudkovskaya‘s perspective in all of this, though I might not be savvy/business like enough for it. Sure, she‘ll get her money back but wouldn‘t the loss of reputation weigh harder? Which parent would decide to send their kidnthere if that‘s the price you pay if it doesn‘t work out and you leave? I‘ve said a lot about Tutberidze‘s behaviour when her students leave her but at least they‘ve always been free to do so. At Plushenko‘s you get the smear campaign plus the financial issues/Rudkovskaya‘s wrath. Nah. If I was a parent or a student, I‘d stay as far away from that school as possible.

I worry for Zhilina, their mom works there, and it’s 2 skaters. I don’t know how they would be able to get out of there.

 

[yume]

Yuzuru Hanyu, Yuna Kim, John Curry are the ones who had both. Toller, yes, was not always consistent but certainly the one who was greatly loved. I thought that Aliona could have attained same level, if...

There are also some who aren't exceptional technically nor artistically but gave memorable performances.

 

[silveruskate]

Rudkovskaya still spoke as though Aliona was departing. And that they agreed on the conditions. It's upto Aliona and her family now, because if she wants to leave, she has to pay. I hope the cottage residence isn't included because that was made afterwards, but it's all going to be in the contract we don't have access to and never will.

What I didn't like the most in the statement was:

"We talked constructively about the problems we faced, we give her all the connections and contacts in medicine and recovery. We know that they will definitely come in handy. Alena smiled, we smiled".

It just doesn't sit well with me at all, like she's smirking at her health issues. So wrong the way she's continually mentioning it now. And in this way, even worse.

 

[Lechat]

Obviously not and I don‘t think anybody seriously expects Sambo or Eteri to pay. Even if they wanted to (which I‘m certain they don‘t lol), they couldn‘t.

Which means Aliona is well and thoroughly trapped. So much for this one. I still don‘t get Rudkovskaya‘s perspective in all of this, though I might not be savvy/business like enough for it. Sure, she‘ll get her money back but wouldn‘t the loss of reputation weigh harder? Which parent would decide to send their kidnthere if that‘s the price you pay if it doesn‘t work out and you leave? I‘ve said a lot about Tutberidze‘s behaviour when her students leave her but at least they‘ve always been free to do so. At Plushenko‘s you get the smear campaign plus the financial issues/Rudkovskaya‘s wrath. Nah. If I was a parent or a student, I‘d stay as far away from that school as possible.

I have mixed feelings, their students don’t have to pay for anything since they give them all they need.

At Sambo, if you are not in the national team, you have to pay and it’s also a lot of money and there are no accommodations. I remember Alina’s dad asked some help for the apartment in Moscou.

 

[chasingneverland]

I'm not arguing that Kamila, Anna, and Sasha aren't far ahead of Alena at this point. I disagree that Alena is out of the equation for a spot on the Olympic team. Alena's competitors are not immune from seeing a drop in form in the next 12 months, and you saying her 3A won't help assumes that Anna and Sasha continue hitting multiple quad LPs and I don't think that's a guarantee.

*sigh*

I am saying nothing is a guarantee. But people seem to be under the impression that (1) Aliona will easily get her 3A back and (2) Anna, Kamila, and Sasha will automatically fall off a cliff.

Even with some falls, Anna, Kamila, and Sasha's BV is high enough to withstand some of that. As Aliona will also need to be consistent too! Aliona also needs to hit multiple 3A programs and I don't think that's a guarantee either.

That's the point.

Also she has farther to go to get there and, depending on how World's goes, very well could have less federation and international favour which will play a role. I think it's very interesting that at Rostelecom her PCS were around 5 points higher than Liza Ts but at the Cup Final Liza T's were 1 point higher. That's a swing of 6 points which is huge. Also neither were clean so that doesn't account for that - plus PCS are political.

 

[MaggieLin]

Thanks!

That's actually about what I expected at this point in time. I didn't expect she'd land her 4T - quads are hard to land in competition as new elements - everyone else has struggled with that too. And I also expected some trouble on her 3Lz-3Lo combo - those are also hard - Anna and Sasha and others also struggle with them.

But I actually think she looks really good here!! Her style and spins and steps are stunning!!

I agree she actually looks good here!

For anyone wondering -

Ksenia missed the entire 6 min warmup due to traffic and barely got to the rink on time to skate her program (I think similar thing happened to Anna in one of the domestic competition...she missed the entire SP due to traffic and almost couldn't make into Junior Nationals...).
So yeah, I'd say the performance wasn't ideal for a reason.

 

[ELEk3k]

I have always believed that childhood ends where money begins to appear... Or high achievements in sports in the international arena.

 

[yume]

I have mixed feelings, their students don’t have to pay for anything since they give them all they need.

At Sambo, if you are not in the national team, you have to pay and it’s also a lot of money and there are no accommodations. I remember Alina’s dad asked some help for the apartment in Moscou.

Girl had a tiny bedroom that she shared with her cat and dog...
Now she has a better appartment. Money is good. Having money is good.
The lack of money hurted Sakhanovich chances of success.

 

[Lechat]

I worry for Zhilina, their mom works there, and it’s 2 skaters. I don’t know how they would be able to get out of there.

I hope her mom figures out she’s the problem