2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 1145 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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Yes. It did go up. But it didn't go up to Anna/Kamila levels.
And it shouldn't !!
I personally can't enjoy Maya, with or without quads, cause of her awkward posture and movements. She has top level jump content, but her basic skating and presence on the ice is just very unpleasant to me and doesn't match that of the other top Russian girls.
And yes, if you wanna bring in the "It Factor", clearly that's not there either to me. But that's sth very subjective.

Many here will say Evgenia had that so called It Factor, while to me her theatrical facial expressions and miming was always just cringy.
I'll say Alena has the It Factor, others will say she's just another Eteri girl with some pretty arm movements.
So, a pretty senseless discussion to have.
 
Maiia's spin flexibility improved during the off-season. This is all domestic, but Maiia has so far not really been rewarded whereas Daria has. Her FCSp4 is especially good. So there's room to grow.

Her jumps are definitely less aesthetically pleasing than all the other girls. Maybe she'll improve? I'm really not a fan of the technique but it doesn't mean she can't.

PCS is the most difficult. She's ok, but there aren't enough PCS points to hand out to everyone. Especially internationally. Just always be clean and see what the judges make of it.
 
will we see any Russian ladies retire after next season? i think Liza is a likely bet, i'd be surprised if she didn't. Samodurova? Kostornaia has reconsidered her original plan of not staying past the Olympics, and i think after the season she just had she will stick around. the rest of the top ladies are still too young, however if one of them wins the Olympics, what are the odds she will retire even if she is just a first year senior?
 
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And she still holds the world record, despite the quadsters. All this talk that 3 3A would not be enough is crazy.

Not really all that crazy, she had a PCS advantage as well in the 19-20 season that helped if you look at the GPF 2019 for Kostornaia vs. Worlds this year Shcherbakova had a higher PCS mark in the SP and in the FS with a fall was about .5 point off of Kostornaia's PCS who was squeaky clean. And Kostornaia won based on her SP advantage, she won't have that over Valieva and Shcherbakova‘s PCS improvement will shrink that SP lead, Trusova had the triple axel yes she's not been clean with it but as long as she lands it and merely has a step out she cuts the SP lead as well.

Could Kostornaia win off 3 strong triple axels, I think she possibly could but I wouldn't be surprised if it is not. Additionally, we're theorizing that she is going to get the jump back and at the consistency she had it 2 years ago- she seems to be struggling to get the triple axel back still needing to be on the harness to do it, her counterparts at this point have a set of mostly stable quads/triple axels and are able to work on adding more and/or stabilizing what they have. If she gets into the GP and is losing to the others, will she be able to add another jump in
 
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I think it's quite normal to say that someone lacks the "It factor", subjectively of course.
And to me Maiia does not have it, same as Bradie and Kaori...simply just not my cup of tea.


Also, as for the validity of her 4T, I see here (0:27) that she prerotated it 180, but same time...who doesn't? I only checked Trusova's 4T from ChannelOne Trophy and it is also pre-rotated close to 180.
 
I understand why the term "It factor" is triggering. Maria just has to go out and do her best. Any reputation Daria and Kamila have gained this season is purely domestic at this stage. Next season is all to play for.
 
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Alina has some of the best skating skills in women's skating, this is her strong suit. I don’t understand how this can be denied?

Since I’m among the ones you quoted. My take on this:

Calling Zagitova‘s SS her “strong suit“, even as a fan, actually does her a disservice. It diminishes her real strengths, such as her incredible jump combinations, stamina and spins, at which she actually was the best at some point in her career.

Also, calling SS Alina‘s weakness is not an insult, it‘s a rational assessment and unless you think she literally has no flaws, I genuinely wonder what you consider her weak points then. I‘m honestly curious: In your opinions, what are Alina Zagitova‘s weaknesses as a skater?

As for how this can be “denied“.. there have been a lot of discussions on skating skills in here, including the last few weeks. If none of the arguments delivered then managed to convince you in any way, I don‘t think what people will say now is going to do it.

It‘s okay, though. When I‘m watching their programs, my fan-mind is still convinced Medvedeva and Kostornaia are the best skaters to ever grace the planet. Forcing my brain to produce even semi-rational thoughts is more of an effort than I care to make most of the time. :laugh:

It’s not over until it’s over. Anything can happen. But we are in for a crazy season.

Yes, it‘s surprising how quickly people make assumptions when there‘s a lot of factors to take into consideration and figure skating‘s historically a pretty unpredictable sport. Still, I think it’s smart not to underestimate the ”underdogs“ like Usacheva and Khromykh. They‘ll have the advantage of being under less pressure and scrutiny than the top favorites (Shcherbakova, Valieva, perhaps Trusova) + Kostornaya, who the fed will be watching very closely after the fiasco that was this season and the messy coaching changes. It‘s always easier to be the chaser than the defender and Valieva will additionally only be 15, has never been to international senior events before and yet is already crowned the Olympic Champ with all the promoting that‘s going on around her by the media. Trusova also has a lot on her plate, having to prove reliability with her ultra-c elements after more or less bombing the SP at Worlds.

As for Kostornaia specifically, it will depend on the 3A and her consistency. Her rotational speed‘s quite low, so a quad is probably not in the cards for her. But I do think that if she manages to go back to her 2019-20 form, she‘ll be preferred by both fed and international judges to someone like Usacheva/Khromykh, maybe even Trusova unless she finally manages to find her consistency. After all, she is going into the Olympic season as the reigning Euros and GPF Champion and it‘s always good to have a stable competitor on the team, even if they don‘t have the highest theoretical BV. But it will definitely be an uphill battle - unlike Usacheva/Khromykh, she‘s already “old“ (I resent that expression but it is what it is) and according to Plushenko, chronically injured. There‘s a very real possibility that even if she gets the 3A back, it won‘t be as reliable for her as it used to. And without it, her chances are close to zero.

So, I‘d say September at the earliest can give us any half-reliable indications on how the Olympic season will go.
 
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I understand why the term "It factor" is triggering. Maria just has to go out and do her best. Any reputation Daria and Kamila have gained this season is purely domestic at this stage. Next season is all to play for.

While I don't remember Usacheva, its been discussed that internationally as a Junior Valieva did fairly well. Barring her getting injured or becoming a complete mess i think the Fed will push for her quite hard next year.
 
I think it's quite normal to say that someone lacks the "It factor", subjectively of course.
And to me Maiia does not have it, same as Bradie and Kaori...simply just not my cup of tea.


Also, as for the validity of her 4T, I see here (0:27) that she prerotated it 180, but same time...who doesn't? I only checked Trusova's 4T from ChannelOne Trophy and it is also pre-rotated close to 180.
One thing is having personal preferences, the other is belief that someone's personal preferences will be shared and reflected by the panel of judges. That's where the "Overscored" wailing starts in the first place, because "how they dare to ignore my sophisticated taste, must be influenced, corrupted" or whatever.
 
While I don't remember Usacheva, its been discussed that internationally as a Junior Valieva did fairly well. Barring her getting injured or becoming a complete mess i think the Fed will push for her quite hard next year.
That is why I said specifically this season. I expect Valieva to do really well, but it could have been much worse for Maiia if she was falling on quads all season until the end, while Daria and Kamila were posting solid skates and getting PCS boosts all season internationally.
 
Also, as for the validity of her 4T, I see here (0:27) that she prerotated it 180, but same time...who doesn't? I only checked Trusova's 4T from ChannelOne Trophy and it is also pre-rotated close to 180.

I‘m not very knowledgeable on pre-rotation but if you ask me, Valieva‘s 4T has become the prettiest quad I‘ve ever seen. No as jaw-droppingly shocking as the one 4S Trusova landed at that Cup stage this season but seamlessly integrated into the program.


Not the best angle, but it looks so effortless and easy it makes me think that if all quads looked like this, I could actually get used to them. :laugh:

As for Khromykh, my problem with the technique on her toe jumps is that she seems to slip on her pick alarmingly often.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CNfcotUoabY/?igshid=z2krc1wrzhbk

Like here. It’s the reason she fell on the 3T and it’s happened a lot this season in competition as well. It makes her jumps (not only the quad) rather unreliable and just not aesthetically pleasing even when she lands them, though I understand that‘s not a GOE bullet lol.
 
I‘m not very knowledgeable on pre-rotation but if you ask me, Valieva‘s 4T has become the prettiest quad I‘ve ever seen. No as jaw-droppingly shocking as the one 4S Trusova landed at that Cup stage this season but seamlessly integrated into the program.


Not the best angle, but it looks so effortless and easy it makes me think that if all quads looked like this, I could actually get used to them. :laugh:
1000000% agree. there are many girls who wished their TRIPLES looked that effortless.

i raved about it in her FF recently, i'm just in awe of how easy it is for her. this is a QUAD Kamila, not a double!!! its not fair lol :tantrum: this is exactly why people think figure skating is easy! can she make SOMETHING look difficult so we all have a reality check??? :laugh:
 
I agree with Maiia lacking the "It" factor. But really, she's been given really bad, bare-bones programs. The only one that showed her personality was her SP this year. Hopefully she'll keep it. She desperately needs a first class program. I think there is more "It" in Maiia than say Bradie.

Her toe-loop is probably the most pre-rotated/toe-axeled one in the competition. You'd think a 3axel should be forthcoming if she's getting a 4toe consistent.
 
Arguing that Tursynbaeva is more replaceable despite her resume being better because of the country she skates for is a pretty slippery slope. She's still a TT girl.

It's not cool when foreign employees are treated worse just because of their nationality.
This thread... y’all drive me insane.

I said it is ONE of the reasons... nation likes seeing their own. Primary reasons I gave were: Tursynbaeva was inactive al season, Maia wasn’t. Current media favors Maia because the quads and Olympic season.

🤦🏻‍♀️
 
I agree with Maiia lacking the "It" factor. But really, she's been given really bad, bare-bones programs. The only one that showed her personality was her SP this year. Hopefully she'll keep it. She desperately needs a first class program. I think there is more "It" in Maiia than say Bradie.

Her toe-loop is probably the most pre-rotated/toe-axeled one in the competition. You'd think a 3axel should be forthcoming if she's getting a 4toe consistent.
Yeah I agree. I don’t know if it’s that Maia doesn’t have the it-factor or if she’s just not a typical performer and they need to craft programs to suit her a little better. The SP showed us she can perform. It’s still a little uncomfortable just because I don’t know if that program is fully appropriate for a 14 year old but it definitely does a lot more for me than her other programs. Definitely does more for me than Bradie’s programs. At least with Maia I’m hoping they’ll see that and work to improve her packaging, whereas us Americans have to suffer and watch Bradie and Mariah do the same thing every season. TT is really good at masking people’s weaknesses and highlighting their strengths. That’s part of why I don’t think Lovely would’ve worked as a competitive program for Aliona.

I think you can sort of see this in Sofia A., too. I don’t know if she’s naturally a good performer- she’s not especially musical or expressive like Anna and Aliona (I’ll give that she’s much younger of course) but the way they’ve done her programs requires her to be. I don’t think it’s very obvious that she’s a super good performer based on 7 Nation Army, it feels like it does for me when Rika performs. The emotion is choreographed into the routine to be displayed at certain points and the rest is just elements. But then you get Reflection and there’s a clear story that she can attach to, and that performance is much better, IMO.

So I don’t know if having an “it-factor” is really a thing, or if it’s just something that you must work on so that you appear natural and connected to your performance while skating. Obviously there are people who are more naturally able to do this, but I think it can be coached into everyone, and I don’t think Maia is the exception to the rule. Tweaking little things like posture and carriage on ice would also help immensely but really I think she just needs programs that suit her more than the typical TT image that Anna, Alina, Daria, and Kamila have. That’s why a while ago I thought she might be better under a different coach.
 
I understand why the term "It factor" is triggering. Maria just has to go out and do her best. Any reputation Daria and Kamila have gained this season is purely domestic at this stage. Next season is all to play for.
It's completely false that Kamila and Daria's reputation is purely domestic. They are the reigning World Junior gold and silver medalists.
There they had PCS of 66.50 and 63.54 which are crazy crazy high for juniors (especially 13 year olds.) Alysa was 60.19 and no one else crossed the 60 threshold (Maiia was 59.54.)

For comparison, in their first World Juniors, Aliona and Sasha were 62.11 and 61.14. The next year Anna and Sasha were 66.29 and 64.44. Different competitions yes, but remember, PCS are more than anything else a reputation score.

Kamila and Daria were already building a reputation internationally, especially Kamila as the ones to beat.
 
well let's say Daria and Maiia are 'in the talk' now because Alena wasn't much around this year and domestic judges were generous to them. international judges might have scored them very differently if we imagine them at a senior GP. plus, there's so much attention to Sambo school, anyone who's in that group benefits of a somehow higher status. so speaking of D and M, it's actually more a matter of perception by the fans now that the season has ended. next season will be very different.
They would never have gone to senior GPs. Kamila, Daria, and Maiia are juniors internationally.
 
It's completely false that Kamila and Daria's reputation is purely domestic. They are the reigning World Junior gold and silver medalists.
There they had PCS of 66.50 and 63.54 which are crazy crazy high for juniors (especially 13 year olds.) Alysa was 60.19 and no one else crossed the 60 threshold (Maiia was 59.54.)

For comparison, in their first World Juniors, Aliona and Sasha were 62.11 and 61.14. The next year Anna and Sasha were 66.29 and 64.44. Different competitions yes, but remember, PCS are more than anything else a reputation score.

Kamila and Daria were already building a reputation internationally, especially Kamila as the ones to beat.
I wish people actually read comments instead of being trigger happy. Specifically said this season.
 
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