2021–22 Canadian Figure Skating | Page 23 | Golden Skate

2021–22 Canadian Figure Skating

4everchan

Observer
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
It's not the only reason a skater can UR, but being as tall as Roman is does make jump rotations a problem -- there's a reason he struggles to rotate triple-triples, which should not otherwise be an issue for a male skater who can do a quad.
Roman jumps big but he is not tight in the air. That's a technical issue... In his Nebelhorn program, you can see very well on the first quad salchow. His feet are not tight together in the air. He also tends to be tilted in the air. Alaine, who is very short, had the same issue. Big jumps, not tight in the air... prone to UR. This can be corrected. I believe it's a more positive way to see things isn't it? Saying he is tall, is sort of accepting that his rotation issues cannot be fixed. I believe Roman can improve on this.
 
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Lutzedge

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 6, 2021
Country
United-States
It's not the only reason a skater can UR, but being as tall as Roman is does make jump rotations a problem -- there's a reason he struggles to rotate triple-triples, which should not otherwise be an issue for a male skater who can do a quad.
It appears that Roman is about 6 feet tall. That seems to make some sense. Shorter people seem to really have to push hard to get the rotation, and tall people seem like they might at times have a hard time to get around. But I do think Roman can get around. He might have also been trying to be cautious and not fall, which might have slowed down the rotation. But he usually does look slower in the air on his jumps.
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
But what you're saying about Roman makes sense. When I heard he was the one being sent to Nebelhorn to try to get the second Men's spot for Canada, I though wow that is great that they want him to do this - it's real vote of confidence for him! Then I immediately also thought no don't put all that pressure on Roman like that! But even though it was a bumpy ride, I'm hoping that he does gain some confidence in the experience and that he'll do well in the GP.

An instructor in another art/skill said once that the most talented are often the ones who are most sensitive, lack confidence, and need encouragement. When you think about the decisions Canada made for the last couple of years when they could have chosen him but didn't, even when he had a clear, huge win at nationals -- well, that is the opposite of encouragement. Then, the vote of confidence to send him to Nebelhorn seemed like encouragement, but as you say, it was pressure, as Roman alluded to in this quote. It's from a series of articles written for olympics.com by Nick McCarvel. He gave quotes from several of the men who earned spots for their countries.

Roman said, "I didn't think it would be as hard as it was today, (especially) mentally. Training coming in was really good... (but) the moment that the music turns on, it just changes, it's different. In the long, I got better towards the end. I did what I came here to do - that's what is most important. I hope that the other competitions are easier this year."

I think it must be hard on a skater to be the national champion or the "de facto" national champion for two years in a row and not be chosen for Worlds. Last year, I felt as many did, that Keegan proved with his performance at Worlds that Canada made the right decision. And I've loved Keegan's skating for years. At the same time, that decision itself gave Keegan, who's sometimes struggled in the past, a huge vote of confidence, so which comes first?

I really hope that what Roman expressed, above, is a giant leap forward in his journey toward putting it all together. I enjoy Roman's skating so much! He really has it all: the jumps, the beautiful skating, the artistry, the musical sensitivity. If he can stick through it and is able to skate as long as Keegan has, it may all come together for him. I really hope so.

Scroll down to the 3rd headline:
 

Colonel Green

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Country
Canada
An instructor in another art/skill said once that the most talented are often the ones who are most sensitive, lack confidence, and need encouragement. When you think about the decisions Canada made for the last couple of years when they could have chosen him but didn't, even when he had a clear, huge win at nationals -- well, that is the opposite of encouragement.
If Roman wants the federation's confidence, he can earn it, by skating clean short programs -- something he has literally never done as a senior. Anybody making assignments who looks at his track record would immediately note that it is dangerous to send him to any event where there is a free skate cut. It's entirely within Roman's power to change that picture.
 

RatedPG

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Country
Canada
If Roman wants the federation's confidence, he can earn it, by skating clean short programs -- something he has literally never done as a senior. Anybody making assignments who looks at his track record would immediately note that it is dangerous to send him to any event where there is a free skate cut. It's entirely within Roman's power to change that picture.
His SP at WTT was as clean as Roman can get. That was his last international event prior to Nebelhorn. So, I hope that counts for something.
 

Colonel Green

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Country
Canada
His SP at WTT was as clean as Roman can get.
Which still wasn't clean, and that kind of exemplifies the problem; the best case scenario for him with the combination is getting a q and mildly negative GOE, and most of the time it's underrotated or downgraded or he falls or only manages a double toe.

I was hopeful at the time that WTT augured for better things ahead, and it still might, but Nebelhorn was right back to bad habits. He'll have more opportunities to show that he's turned a corner in the months ahead -- but until he does that, I don't expect the federation to pretend that he already has.
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
It appears that Roman is about 6 feet tall. That seems to make some sense. Shorter people seem to really have to push hard to get the rotation, and tall people seem like they might at times have a hard time to get around. But I do think Roman can get around. He might have also been trying to be cautious and not fall, which might have slowed down the rotation. But he usually does look slower in the air on his jumps.
This is interesting. Evan Lysacek ( 2010 OGM ) was 6' 2". He was a beautiful skater but he never landed a quad in competition. He did however, have beautiful lines and flow out of his jumps. I think Roman can follow his strategy and be very successful. He is certainly a beautiful skater.
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
This is interesting. Evan Lysacek ( 2010 OGM ) was 6' 2". He was a beautiful skater but he never landed a quad in competition. He did however, have beautiful lines and flow out of his jumps. I think Roman can follow his strategy and be very successful. He is certainly a beautiful skater.

Actually yes, Evan did land quad toes in competition more than once. My favorite program featuring his excellent 4T-3T: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI9JR3UWlSY

Whether he tried it in a competition depended on whether or not his chronic stress fracture was acting up. If it was, he didn't include it and relied on his beautiful skating and Lori Nichol's strategically choreographed programs.

But yes, to your main point, even Johnny Weir said (implied) once that Evan's height made jumping harder. Roman is in good company and can take heart. ❤️
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
If Roman wants the federation's confidence, he can earn it, by skating clean short programs -- something he has literally never done as a senior. Anybody making assignments who looks at his track record would immediately note that it is dangerous to send him to any event where there is a free skate cut. It's entirely within Roman's power to change that picture.
Well said. I was thinking something like that would be a response when I wrote my post, but it's still an intriguing question .... which comes first, the encouragement or the confidence. Someone on another forum even mentioned that 'history has shown' that when Nam knows he's being supported by SC, he's risen to the occasion. That was before I posed the question that such SC support might be a missing ingredient for Roman. But Roman is young, he has time. I just hope he will skate competitively long enough to develop his confidence, since the beauty, emotion, musical intelligence, ability are there.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Roman is not only tall, but much of his height is due to his very long legs. That makes it harder to keep his legs close together when jumping, even more so when attempting 3/3s.
 

haribobo

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Senior Top Scores Summer/Fall 2021

SENIOR MEN FS/TOTAL (yet to compete- Nam, Gogolev)
Roman Sadovsky 161/244
Joseph Phan 150/229
Conrad Orzel 155/227
Wesley Chiu 149/223
Keegan Messing 131/220
Bennet Toman 140/211
Corey Circelli 128/191 (JGP)
Samuel Angers 121/184
Matthew Markell 118/182
Bruce Waddell 121/181
Alistair Lam 109/180
Jack Dushenski 115/174
Marek Ramilison 115/174

SENIOR WOMEN FS/TOTAL
Kaiya Ruiter (JGP score) 118/179
Gabrielle Daleman 122/178
Madeline Schizas 113/173
Emily Bausback 109/172
Alison Schumacher 106/167
Amanda Tobin 105/160
Michelle Long 103/160
Alicia Pineault 104/157
Jennyfer Richer-labelle 91/147
Camille Perreault 97/146
Veronik Mallet 94/146
Beatrice Lavoie-Leonard 90/140

SENIOR PAIR FS/TOTAL (yet to compete- MTM, Walsh/Michaud)
Stellato/Deschamps 120/187
James/Radford 115/184 (Autumn Classic)
Matte/Ferland 100/159
Andrew/Adcock 100/148
Laurin/Ethier 94/140
Brasseur/Daleman 95/140

SENIOR FD/TOTAL
Gilles/Poirier 132/221
Lauriault/LeGac 115/190
Soucisse/Firus 113/188
Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen 109/185 (Lombardia)
Lanaghan/Razgulajevs 111/184
Lajoie/Lagha 110/181 (Autumn Classic)
Fabbri/Ayer 107/179
Sales/Wamsteeker 95/155 (Autumn Classic)
Campbell/Fawcett 91/152
Hensen/Lickers 92/149
Iannetta/Carr 86/142
 

Lutzedge

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 6, 2021
Country
United-States
He is still training in California, I really hope to see him skating this season. He is quite tall now so I am sure he’s had to go through some big adjustments
There is an article from January this year that said he was growing a lot, and was as tall as 5'5 or 5'6. But now he is listed at 5'9! It seems like he has grown from about 6 to 12 inches since 2019 Junior Worlds.
 

4everchan

Observer
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
There is an article from January this year that said he was growing a lot, and was as tall as 5'5 or 5'6. But now he is listed at 5'9! It seems like he has grown from about 6 to 12 inches since 2019 Junior Worlds.
wow... gogolev is the new nguyen...

btw... conrad said that it is only when growing taller that he managed to do his big jumps... newly acquired power... so there are perks too... it all depends how it is managed...
 

Balloon

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Gogolev has seemed to struggle with his growth, the last JW he was landing just not consistently.
I can confirm he would be 5’9 or maybe even taller, he was in Toronto this summer for a few weeks.
I just would like to see him competing with or without his big elements.
 

haribobo

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Top Junior Scores from Summer/Fall/JGP
*Dupuis, Carle, Pereira, Ruiter are registered for senior this year, as well as Circelli, Rakic, Chiu, Kovler for Men, Laurin/Ethier and McIntosh/Mimar in Pairs

WOMEN
Rose Theroux 147
Audreanne Foster 144/142 JGP
Natalie Roccatani 142
Lulu Lin 141
Justine Miclette 140/126 JGP
Marie-Maude Pomerleau 139
Natasha Hewitt 138

MEN
Matthew Newnham 174
Alec Guinzbourg 166/ 149 JGP
Shohei Law 163
Grayson Long 165
Rio Morita 163

PAIRS
Fredette/St Louis 141/ 131JGP
Panetta/Thrasher 99/129 JGP
Carignan/Pierro 123
Homick/Haubrich 119
Wilberforce/Wright 115

DANCE
Bashynska/Beaumont 166/157 JGP
Makita/Gunara 166/ 149 JGP
D’Alessandro/Waddell 165/ 163 JGP
Gauthier/Thieren 141
Lewis/McMillan 141
Khelifa/Zhu 138/ 127 JGP
Robinson/Portz 123/132 JGP
Estepa/Hickey 132
Yu/Giang 131/129 JGP
Embro/Millar 130
Goodstadt/Barsoum 128/129 JGP
Nguyen/Roueche 128/117 JGP
Cutler/Mah 122
Bolender/Dotzert 121
Saunders/Oddson 118
 

ladyjane

Medalist
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Country
Netherlands
If Roman wants the federation's confidence, he can earn it, by skating clean short programs -- something he has literally never done as a senior. Anybody making assignments who looks at his track record would immediately note that it is dangerous to send him to any event where there is a free skate cut. It's entirely within Roman's power to change that picture.
I don't remember if it was totally clean, but Roman did manage to be the only starter in the second warm up group at WTT because of his well executed short programme which had been done the day before where he started in the first group. That it all fell apart in the FS is another story. He did do a good SP!
 
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