2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating

[Skatesocs]

One particular instance that soured me on the judging was 2018 Nationals, where the tech panel was clearly trying to knock Karen behind Ashley and the judging panel (thankfully) had other thoughts. Had Karen not been a major contender, she could have easily been buried by the judging panel. So, yes, I do think it's better to rely on a body of work than solely on the Nationals result.

This is an interesting point, indeed. The solution is still the judging and the tech calling being fixed. We cannot rely on federations having their own thoughts, so make sure the judging is better. By the way, interesting thread. https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/threads/chen-vs-wagner-judging.68454/

 

[halulupu]

i don't think that's true at all. in the case of Ashley Wagner, she continually showed up in international competition, worlds included, the years before Sochi selection. she won major international medals competing against the sports biggest names. she won and kept Olympic spots at worlds. she had a bad competition at nationals that season, and it was her body of work that got her on the team, deservedly so. she had already proved she could show up when it counted most, under the highest pressure, and win medals for the US. the federation could trust her on the biggest stage.

On the opposite hand, this is exactly why Ross Miner was not selected in 2018. he had one amazing competition at nationals with nothing else to back that up. he hadn't won an international medal in over 2 years and hadn't even been on the national podium in 5 years. he couldn't deliver when it counted. USFS couldn't count on him. this was also why Amber was not selected for worlds last season. they aren't going to pick a skater who showed up one time to represent them on the biggest stage in the sport when they already couldn't show up on smaller stages. it is a huge gamble and risk to select a skater who is inconsistent and can't hold their own in international competition. IMO the risk well outweighs any possible reward and it's not worth throwing the dice.

Definitely not trying to rehash any of that, just providing those situations as examples why i don't think it makes any sense to put so much weight on one competition in the whole entire season, and a domestic one at that. nationals should absolutely count and hold a lot of weight, but it should not be "trials" or the deciding competition when many times it hasn't been a representation either way of what a skater can or cannot do.

Amber with 3a and how bad everyone else performed could very well have medalled at world. But no, she was not send because missing "body of work". And most certainly she will not be send to Olympics again even if she performed well, because of missing body of work, because she couldn't prove herself at world. How is she supposed to create a body of work, when she never will he send? The body of work principle is nonsense, it doesn't have any clear criterias, it only favours politicking and skaters with influancial coaches

 

[spicymacaron]

Amber with 3a and how bad everyone else performed could very well have medalled at world. But no, she was not send because missing "body of work". And most certainly she will not be send to Olympics again even if she performed well, because of missing body of work, because she couldn't prove herself at world. How is she supposed to create a body of work, when she never will he send? The body of work principle is nonsense, it doesn't have any clear criterias, it only favours politicking and skaters with influancial coaches

I don't think Amber has landed that jump clean in competition before. Her previous international outings didn't go well either. In the end, the fed just doesn't trust her consistency enough because in their view, her nationals performance was an anomaly. I also believe Amber would have not gotten anywhere close to her domestic pcs, while Karen is known as a pcs skater. Anyway, Amber has 2 grand prix events this year. If she does well in them and in nationals, I don't think USA use the body of work excuse to keep her home from Olympics. Btw, the last time I heard about Amber was about her injury at Cranberry Cup. Has there been any updates since? Really looking forward to seeing her at Skate America.

 

[Apple1078]

Amber is assigned to Finlandia next week with Karen (and Jason/Max Naumov).

 

[macy]

Amber with 3a and how bad everyone else performed could very well have medalled at world. But no, she was not send because missing "body of work". And most certainly she will not be send to Olympics again even if she performed well, because of missing body of work, because she couldn't prove herself at world. How is she supposed to create a body of work, when she never will he send? The body of work principle is nonsense, it doesn't have any clear criterias, it only favours politicking and skaters with influancial coaches

Amber has had years and years at this point to create a body of work argument for herself, but she is an inconsistent skater who can't deliver internationally. shes been a senior internationally for SIX years. she has won a single international medal, a bronze, at the US classic in 2019 her entire senior career. she didn't just come onto the scene and USFS is taking away opportunities from her. she's had so many chances to show the fed what she can do under pressure and that she can be counted on when the pressure is on, but she never has. that is precisely why she was passed over for worlds last season- she can't hold it together when it matters. because of this, she doesn't have a PCS advantage or a good reputation with the judges. they already know what she's going to bring to the table. why would USFS trust her to begin with, inconsistent triple axel aside? the 3A doesn't even matter if she can't put the rest of the program together.

i am not saying any of this to bash amber at all- i want her to do well this season and show them what she can do. i want her to fight for that olympic spot. she has so much unrealized potential. i am only trying to look at it through the eyes of the fed/selection committee.

 

[skatingiscool]

It would seem to be that , just like everyone else, they need to aim for that benchmark score at their competitions this season.

Since median scores are going to be considered from all challengers, GPs, and major competitions, I imagine scoring above 200 at all competitions they enter should be their goal

Alysa has been reaching her goal. She needs to keep doing that and trying to improve. Mariah's single performance wasn't great. Lindsay has done well, but junior scores are lower and she hasn't made it over 200. Amber hasn't skated an entire event yet.

Honestly, while the top 5 were extremely overscored at Worlds, the actual performances were so weak that it isn't impossible for any of them to reach this score. Bradie scored over 200 points in almost every competition for a period of three years ( until her terrible competition at Worlds this year)

Karen definitely has an advantage on the others, ( unfair advantage imho) but if she has a season of skates like she did at Autumn Classic ( and every other year she has been in seniors where her average international score tends to be in the 170s) she will lose it if the others skate better.

Thank you!

 

[mrrice]

Amber is assigned to Finlandia next week with Karen (and Jason/Max Naumov).

This will be a great chance for Amber. I know she was dealing with an injury. Has she completely healed? If she is able to beat Karen, it would be a big statement and give her an international win over another US Lady.

 

[Dogo]

Amber has had years and years at this point to create a body of work argument for herself, but she is an inconsistent skater who can't deliver internationally. shes been a senior internationally for SIX years. she has won a single international medal, a bronze, at the US classic in 2019 her entire senior career. she didn't just come onto the scene and USFS is taking away opportunities from her. she's had so many chances to show the fed what she can do under pressure and that she can be counted on when the pressure is on, but she never has. that is precisely why she was passed over for worlds last season- she can't hold it together when it matters. because of this, she doesn't have a PCS advantage or a good reputation with the judges. they already know what she's going to bring to the table. why would USFS trust her to begin with, inconsistent triple axel aside? the 3A doesn't even matter if she can't put the rest of the program together.

i am not saying any of this to bash amber at all- i want her to do well this season and show them what she can do. i want her to fight for that olympic spot. she has so much unrealized potential. i am only trying to look at it through the eyes of the fed/selection committee.

This info really took me by surprise.

I haven't been following Amber at all more than in the past year or so when she got popular (more so, with the young another site population) when she attempted the 3A in training. It's clear that she resonates more (but not exclusively) with some young skating fans (mostly white girls) that also skate on&off and appreciate power jumps.

I appreciate what she brings to the table and her persona. But 6 years in the senior circuit with just 1 bronze medal at an international but home-based competition doesn't look good.

 

[Lzbee]

Edit: One more thing... has there ever been a federation selection made outside of National podium placement that has medaled at an Olympics or Worlds? I can't remember one other than Nancy Kerrigan, and let's all pray a circumstance like that is never repeated. Other than this specific instance, I think we can safely put to rest the notion that these off-script selections lead to medals, even those who have been granted a medical bye. Give the "body of work" people a lifetime achievement award, and let the athletes sort things out on the field of play.

Karen just came 4th at world's. That's the closest a US woman has come to medalling at world's since, ironically, Karen herself, was 4th in 2017. And before that it would have been Ashley with silver and Gracie in 4th in 2016.

 

[chuckm]

It's true Amber hasn't performed anywhere near consistently on the international level. But for that matter, she's been competing as a senior at Nationals since 2012, and 2021 was the first and only year she made it to the podium. Karen, OTOH, has competed at Nationals since 2015 (except for 2019, when she was injured) and made it to the podium 5 times.

 

[frida80]

It's true Amber hasn't performed anywhere near consistently on the international level. But for that matter, she's been competing as a senior at Nationals since 2012, and 2021 was the first and only year she made it to the podium. Karen, OTOH, has competed at Nationals since 2015 (except for 2019, when she was injured) and made it to the podium 5 times.

Amber only started competing as a senior in 2015. She won Junior nationals in 2014.

I think Amber has had some bad luck that has punctured her confidence. Her nationals win in 2014 was the same year Karen was injured and couldn’t compete, so it suddenly put a lot of pressure on her at junior worlds. She got injured in fall of 2015. Started to rebound in fall of 2016, with a good competition at Golden Spin but has to drop out of junior worlds for another injury (I think). Whatever happened kept her off the ice that summer leading to another weak season in 2017-2018. It feels like she’s been slowly gaining more confidence in herself. In 2019 she started to skate stronger SP, but buckled under the pressure for the FS. In 2020, her Average score improved into the 190s by 4CC. Then last year she learned a 3A and finally made the podium. A late bloomer. I wish the dice rolled differently for her. A few good seasons in juniors would’ve helped her confidence in seniors. She has such strong skills. She just needs to have the mental game to put it all together.

 

[figures2001]

Amber posted a 3A that seemed clean or q on her instagram story today. Looks like she is healing well from her injury! Good luck to her at Finlandia next week!!

 

[RatedPG]

Go Amber! I just want her to skate as well as she did in Nationals. Finlandia will be interesting in regards to the battle for the spots just outside the podium, which I expect to be filled in by the Russians. A head to head win over Karen will be a good starting point her for building a claim for a spot in the Olympic team.

 

[Coleus59]

i don't think that's true at all. in the case of Ashley Wagner, she continually showed up in international competition, worlds included, the years before Sochi selection. she won major international medals competing against the sports biggest names. she won and kept Olympic spots at worlds. she had a bad competition at nationals that season, and it was her body of work that got her on the team, deservedly so. she had already proved she could show up when it counted most, under the highest pressure, and win medals for the US. the federation could trust her on the biggest stage.

On the opposite hand, this is exactly why Ross Miner was not selected in 2018. he had one amazing competition at nationals with nothing else to back that up. he hadn't won an international medal in over 2 years and hadn't even been on the national podium in 5 years. he couldn't deliver when it counted. USFS couldn't count on him. this was also why Amber was not selected for worlds last season. they aren't going to pick a skater who showed up one time to represent them on the biggest stage in the sport when they already couldn't show up on smaller stages. it is a huge gamble and risk to select a skater who is inconsistent and can't hold their own in international competition. IMO the risk well outweighs any possible reward and it's not worth throwing the dice.

Definitely not trying to rehash any of that, just providing those situations as examples why i don't think it makes any sense to put so much weight on one competition in the whole entire season, and a domestic one at that. nationals should absolutely count and hold a lot of weight, but it should not be "trials" or the deciding competition when many times it hasn't been a representation either way of what a skater can or cannot do.

B

 

[Coleus59]

But Brandie Tennel hasn't shown much of a body of work, the upcoming competitions will tell, just because she has been to an Olympics is no guarantee this time.I agree about Amber though even though I like her. Mariah Bell is another one to consider, however at this early stage there are two many unknowns

 

[mrrice]

But Brandie Tennel hasn't shown much of a body of work, the upcoming competitions will tell, just because she has been to an Olympics is no guarantee this time.I agree about Amber though even though I like her. Mariah Bell is another one to consider, however at this early stage there are two many unknowns

Assuming that Alysa Wins.....Who else other than Bradie is a 2 time National Champion? Karen, with her 2 4th place finishes at Worlds might have a case but, Nationally Bradie has defeated her several times.

 

[TontoK]

But Brandie Tennel hasn't shown much of a body of work, the upcoming competitions will tell, just because she has been to an Olympics is no guarantee this time.I agree about Amber though even though I like her. Mariah Bell is another one to consider, however at this early stage there are two many unknowns

This post reminded me that when Bradie won Nationals and went to the Olympics... she was an almost complete unknown at this time in the season. She clawed her way through smaller competitions as the season progressed, and made a name for herself.

We shouldn't discount the possibility that there is someone out there off our radar who is preparing to do just that.

 

[readernick]

Assuming that Alysa Wins.....Who else other than Bradie is a 2 time National Champion? Karen, with her 2 4th place finishes at Worlds might have a case but, Nationally Bradie has defeated her several times.

Internationally too, Bradie has consistency scored higher than Karen and the other US ladies. Her average score for several years was higher than that Alysa is scoring now. If healthy, she should have no trouble developing a strong body of work.

 

[mrrice]

This post reminded me that when Bradie won Nationals and went to the Olympics... she was an almost complete unknown at this time in the season. She clawed her way through smaller competitions as the season progressed, and made a name for herself.

We shouldn't discount the possibility that there is someone out there off our radar who is preparing to do just that.

Other than Lindsay Thorngren, I can't imagine another lady who could threaten our top 2 ladies. Alysa and Bradie

 

[chuckm]

Other than Lindsay Thorngren, I can't imagine another lady who could threaten our top 2 ladies. Alysa and Bradie

Agreed!!